Calcium Bicarbonate Water?

Brian

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Someone mentioned in a thread, I think it was Haidut, the idea of making a calcium bicarbonate drink using the same method that is done for magnesium with milk of magnesia and carbonated water. Then possibly combining the two in a ratio of 3:2.

Since milk of magnesia is just Magnesium Hydroxide, could the same be done with Calcium Hydroxide? A commercial source I found is slaked lime, which is labeled as Calcium Hyrdoxide. I don't know how pure it is, but it is sold as food grade for pickling.

I don't seem to be absorbing much calcium from dairy right now and I'm not always in the mood for a large serving of dairy three times a day, so it would be nice to have another option. Has anybody tried something like this? Do you think it would be a safe way to supplement calcium?
 

BingDing

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I think that is a great idea. I've been thinking along those lines because in the Alkalinity vs Acidity interview RP said the body will make CO2 from bicarbonate ions. That mag bicarbonate has 5 times as much bicarbonate ions as magnesium ions, 7500 mg per liter bottle. I am thinking that is one reason I reacted so favorably to it.

Hopefully someone can figure out what amounts of slaked lime and soda water to use, I don't want to overdose on magnesium and I need some additional calcium.

Edit: the Wiki page on limewater says calcium carbonate and CO2 makes calcium bicarbonate.

There are directions at http://irongallink.org/images/file/pdf% ... ate_ok.pdf.
 
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Brian

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Ca(OH)2(aq) + CO2(g) → CaCO3(s) + H2O(l)

If excess CO2 is added, the following reaction takes place:

CaCO3(s) + H2O(l) + CO2(g) → Ca(HCO3)2(aq)

Wow, I never looked at the reaction that closely before. So that probably means magnesium carbonate would work too, instead of Magnesium Hyrdroxide. Has anyone tried that? And since it cuts out a step it would only use half as much CO2, right? (It's been awhile since I took chemistry at a university) Which would help ensure it all gets dissolved if you were to add both calcium and magnesium carbonate.
 

BingDing

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The pdf for making the magnesium bicarbonate says

Mg(OH)2+ 2CO2--->Mg(HCO3)2

I never even took 11th grade chemistry (got stoned and missed it, LOL). I think mixing calcium carbonate and soda water must be pretty safe.
 
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Brian

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So I tried making magnesium water with just Magnesium Carbonate and it works very well. It does indeed use less CO2 in the reaction. I put the equivalent of 1500mg of magnesium from powder into a liter of soda water and after it had completely dissolved there was still a lot of carbonation left over.

This means there is still room for dissolving some Calcium Carbonate. I would expect it to dissolve just as well. I wonder if it would dissolve something like 1800mg of Calcium and 1200mg of Magnesium? I don't have any calcium carbonate right now, but it's on my list of things to try.
 

tara

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I've heard it can be good to take mag. and calcium supplements at separate times - does any one know if there is a good reason to separate them? It's more convenient to take them simultaneously.
 

BingDing

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I tried 3 tbsp of powdered egg shell in 1 liter of soda water. Shook it up and let it settle three times. It was cloudy and some of the egg shell remained at the bottom. I guess I got some calcium out of it and some bicarb ions but not sure how much. I remember reading somewhere how much calcium is in a tsp of egg shell but can't dig it up. I assume 3 tbsp was supersaturated.

I've seen limewater in grocery stores, if I see it again I'll give it a try.

tara, I heard years ago that taking them together had some advantage. There are plenty of cal-mag supplements on sale but I think most of them are not absorbed much.
 

tara

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I think calcium carbonate is about 40% calcium by weight? So 5g calcium carbonate would have ~2g calcium?
 
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Hey, I missed this! Yes, I've experimented with both for several months, and my results show you want as much CO2/carbonates and cold temperature as you can get into the water. The more CO2 and cold you have, the more magnesium or calcium you can dissolve.

If you have a sodastream or the equivalent you can get quite a bit of carbonation into the solution, by repeatedly adding more after each time you shake.

As you shake, and the magnesium or calcium dissolves, you'll see the sides of the bottle collapse in, and the water will look less cloudy, even clear. That means the CO2 in the air has gone into solution in the water. That's good!

When taking it, always check for headache, nausea, constipation of diarrhea to see if you've taken too much. The key to the bicarbonates is that you can take significantly more without experiencing these problems. You'll see Peat's written about the benefits of a complex of calcium and bicarbonate, if you search for those terms at the toxinless.com Peat search.

Since 2 grams of magnesium and 5 grams of calcium per day is suggested by Peat as optimal, you can try taking quite a bit!

Whatever solid precipitates to the bottom, you can ignore. It just means there's more solute than CO2. Just drink the water, not the solid precipitate.

PS. FWIW, I've asked Peat and he thinks this would "probably make a good supplement".

Also, FWIW, I find it seems easier to get magnesium hydroxide and calcium hydroxide to dissociate with the carbonation and cold. Though both the hydroxide and the carbonate forms do dissolve, it seems the carbonate takes longer, or maybe needs more cold and shaking. But I could be wrong about that, and haven't worked out the redox reactions behind it yet!
 

tara

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I haven't got any calcium hydroxide, but my experience was also that calcium carbonate did not dissolve anywhere near as well in soda water as magnesium hydroxide.
 
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In the theory that I've read, you need as much CO2 in the water as you can get to react with the carbonate, to make bicarbonate. The CO2 is increased by pressurizing (30 PSI seems safe), icy cold (I use shaved iced), and vigorous shaking (I use elbow grease).

Hydroxide is more alkaline than carbonate, and so it reacts better/easier with the CO2/carbonic acid, but ultimately the bicarbonate saturation point I think should be the same, which (for calcium bicarbonate) I've seen measured or calculated to be 1620 ppm (a pH of 8.4).
 
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tara said:
I've heard it can be good to take mag. and calcium supplements at separate times - does any one know if there is a good reason to separate them? It's more convenient to take them simultaneously.
I combine them.

The saturation point for the bicarbonates is probably lower for each if combined (in round numbers, by half), than it would be separately, since the optimal saturation for both seems to be at a pH of 8.4. But I don't mind this because, as you say, it's more convenient, and I just drink twice as much.

But I'm self-taught at this, from reading Peat and his citations. So please correct me if you think I'm wrong. I don't mean to pretend to know more than I do!
 

tara

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visionofstrength said:
I combine them.
From what you and others have said, I'll keep taking calcium and mag together.
 

SQu

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I have slaked lime from the pharmacy. I've tried dissolving in vinegar as per mittir's idea - it gets quite hot! - And taking on days I don't get much dairy especially as I'm also a' bloater' with too much milk (much though I love it). It's horrid to the taste but at 1/4 tsp not too hard to take.
As a fan of magnesium bicarbonate water though, I'd rather do the same with the calcium and get the benefit of more bicarbonate at the same time. any thoughts/ links on recipe? Or did I miss it further up the thread? Also - without the vinegar will it be too alkaline? I can't find pH urine testing strips and would prefer to play safe with this issue.
 
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Brian

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@Brian @tara @BingDing
Any updates on this experiment? Any tips?

I never tried it. At the time I didn't seem to be utilizing dietary calcium very well through dairy or calcium carbonate, but since then I've realized for myself at least that prolactin and calcium utilization is much more dependent on regular sun bathing/exposure rather than any specific form or amount of minerals.

My current health philosophy is sun bathe, strength train, and eat delicious food. That seems to get better results than any supplement or specific food/macro combination I've tried so far. With the exception of magnesium. I still like to stay topped up on mag, definitely seems to make dietary calcium go further and make me more resilient to stress.
 

Orion

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I never tried it. At the time I didn't seem to be utilizing dietary calcium very well through dairy or calcium carbonate, but since then I've realized for myself at least that prolactin and calcium utilization is much more dependent on regular sun bathing/exposure rather than any specific form or amount of minerals.

My current health philosophy is sun bathe, strength train, and eat delicious food. That seems to get better results than any supplement or specific food/macro combination I've tried so far. With the exception of magnesium. I still like to stay topped up on mag, definitely seems to make dietary calcium go further and make me more resilient to stress.

Brian, if natural sun bathing is not available. Tanning beds? avoid or the best thing besides sunlight?
 

tara

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@Brian @tara @BingDing
Any updates on this experiment? Any tips?
I still often take calcium carbonate ad Mg carbonate or glycinate together. I don't take particularly high doses.
I don;'t think I am clear enough about the effects to report anything useful, other than that if I forget for a couple of days I may be more prone to cramps.
 
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Brian

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Brian, if natural sun bathing is not available. Tanning beds? avoid or the best thing besides sunlight?

I'm not sure. I've never tried tanning beds or really researched them. I have been trying to sun bathe 20 minutes per day this Summer to good effect. If you can't do that daily, I would still try to do it as many days as you can per week, even if its just one or two. The sun is a lot more than just UV rays and redlight. I think its likely the entire spectrum has unique benefits when received at the same time.
 

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