haidut

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Have you ever searched for ""vit d" isotretinoin"?

No, but I know vitamin A protects from the hypercalcemia of very high doses vitamin D.
 

Amazoniac

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You mentioned on another thread something about the finasteride syndrome possibly being related to vit D deficiency, and gbolduev related accutane syndrome to the consequences of finasteride. You're probably being bombarded with messages right now, but when you have some time, search for vit D during isotretinoin treatment and its effects.

Regarding dairy and vit D, even for sun exposure, which is better regulated than supplements, I don't think babies of any species are exposed as much as adults are. It's just something to be aware when it comes to higher doses of supplemental vit D.
 

Rad

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Rayzord mentioned in an interview that calcium and vit D are correlated with leanness. I wonder if fat loss starts to occur only once tissues are saturated with vit D. Maybe gurus give up too soon and feel well all of the sudden for misterious reasons while fasting (not an attack to gbolduev); or they take too much at a time and feel the temporary bad effects of excess calcium.

Meet Klotho.

And congratulations.

My doctor discovered I was low in vitamin d and gave me low dose ergocalciferol. I, listening to the experts decided to go for 5,000mg cholecalciferol and lost 1 and a half stone (about 21 pounds) in a matter of weeks. Felt amazing. Developed huge bruised the lengths of my shins. Worse on the right than the left and seeming to come from behind the shins. When I tested after 2 and a hald months (thereabouts), I was so high that the nhs phoned me personally, rather than sending back test results by post.
 

Pointless

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My doctor discovered I was low in vitamin d and gave me low dose ergocalciferol. I, listening to the experts decided to go for 5,000mg cholecalciferol and lost 1 and a half stone (about 21 pounds) in a matter of weeks. Felt amazing. Developed huge bruised the lengths of my shins. Worse on the right than the left and seeming to come from behind the shins. When I tested after 2 and a hald months (thereabouts), I was so high that the nhs phoned me personally, rather than sending back test results by post.

Anything you know of that prevents the bruising and bone pain??
 

aguilaroja

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... listening to the experts decided to go for 5,000mg cholecalciferol and lost 1 and a half stone (about 21 pounds) in a matter of weeks. Felt amazing. Developed huge bruised the lengths of my shins. Worse on the right than the left and seeming to come from behind the shins. When I tested after 2 and a hald months (thereabouts), I was so high that the nhs phoned me personally, rather than sending back test results by post.

I am hoping that the amount was 5000 IU rather than 5000 mg of D3 (cholecalciferol) daily. One international unit (IU) is 25 nanograms of D3. So 5000 milligrams would be 200 MILLION units (IU) of D3, which is a dangerous amount even as a single dose.

5000 IU supplementation daily for an adult is in different views a moderate to high amount. If things went from very low to very high in 2 plus months, it could be that the absorption was good, or the product had extra quantity. Sunlight and food sources of vitamin D also factor in.
Vitamin D Council | How do I get the vitamin D my body needs?
 

mirc12354

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Is it OK to take it topically with the DMSO formula of Kuinone (or Pansterone/11-k DHT)???
 

Amazoniac

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My doctor discovered I was low in vitamin d and gave me low dose ergocalciferol. I, listening to the experts decided to go for 5,000mg cholecalciferol and lost 1 and a half stone (about 21 pounds) in a matter of weeks. Felt amazing. Developed huge bruised the lengths of my shins. Worse on the right than the left and seeming to come from behind the shins. When I tested after 2 and a hald months (thereabouts), I was so high that the nhs phoned me personally, rather than sending back test results by post.
Anything you know of that prevents the bruising and bone pain??
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/support-files/vitamin_d_toxicity_vitamin_k_masterjohn.pdf

"I propose that vitamin D exerts its toxic actions primarily by inducing a deficiency of vitamin K. According to this model, vitamin D upregulates the expression of certain proteins that must be activated by the vitamin K-dependent process of carboxylation; when the level of these proteins exceeds that which the pool of available vitamin K has the capacity to carboxylate, this pool becomes depleted."

"while vitamin A exerts a strong protective effect against vitamin D toxicity, its protection is not complete and vitamin D toxicity is not an exact mirror of vitamin A deficiency."

Comparison between the protective effects of vitamin K and vitamin A on the modulation of hypervitaminosis D3 short-term toxicity in adult albino rats

"Animals fed toxic doses of vitamin D bear a striking resemblance to animals deficient in vitamin K or the vitamin K-dependent proteins"

"[..]Taken together, these observations suggest that vitamin D and Warfarin exhibit similar toxicity profiles because they both induce a deficiency of vitamin K, even though the mechanism by which they contribute to this deficiency is different: while Warfarin directly inhibits the recycling of vitamin K, vitamin D increases the demand for vitamin K beyond that which can be fulfilled."

"A final challenge to this model is presented by the synergistic effect of vitamins A and D on osteocalcin expression. In human osteoblast cell culture, incubation with either all-trans-retinoic acid, a metabolite of vitamin A, or calcitriol, a metabolite of vitamin D, increases osteocalcin expression only slightly. When the cells are incubated with the two vitamin metabolites simultaneously, however, osteocalcin expression is increased dramatically [28]. This suggests that vitamin A increases rather than decreases the demand for vitamin K in osteoblasts; one could argue that the proposed model predicts from this that vitamin A would aggravate vitamin D toxicity, despite the clear observation that vitamin A ameliorates vitamin D toxicity. Nevertheless, vitamin A downregulates the expression of MGP in rat [25] and human [29] cells. Since MGP is expressed broadly whereas osteocalcin is expressed only in osteoblasts, vitamin A is likely to exert a substantial net vitamin K-sparing effect, and would thus be predicted by the proposed model to ameliorate vitamin D toxicity, which is observed."​

I've read from a few gurus that there's an increased need for B-vitamins during vit D repletion. Vit C insufficiency can be involved as well, hence the characteristic lesions of scurvy; it's involved in collagen metabolism and mineralization, I believe it's also required to prevent excess calcium.
 
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sugarbabe

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http://www.easy-immune-health.com/support-files/vitamin_d_toxicity_vitamin_k_masterjohn.pdf

"I propose that vitamin D exerts its toxic actions primarily by inducing a deficiency of vitamin K. According to this model, vitamin D upregulates the expression of certain proteins that must be activated by the vitamin K-dependent process of carboxylation; when the level of these proteins exceeds that which the pool of available vitamin K has the capacity to carboxylate, this pool becomes depleted."

"while vitamin A exerts a strong protective effect against vitamin D toxicity, its protection is not complete and vitamin D toxicity is not an exact mirror of vitamin A deficiency."

Comparison between the protective effects of vitamin K and vitamin A on the modulation of hypervitaminosis D3 short-term toxicity in adult albino rats

"Animals fed toxic doses of vitamin D bear a striking resemblance to animals deficient in vitamin K or the vitamin K-dependent proteins"

"[..]Taken together, these observations suggest that vitamin D and Warfarin exhibit similar toxicity profiles because they both induce a deficiency of vitamin K, even though the mechanism by which they contribute to this deficiency is different: while Warfarin directly inhibits the recycling of vitamin K, vitamin D increases the demand for vitamin K beyond that which can be fulfilled."

"A final challenge to this model is presented by the synergistic effect of vitamins A and D on osteocalcin expression. In human osteoblast cell culture, incubation with either all-trans-retinoic acid, a metabolite of vitamin A, or calcitriol, a metabolite of vitamin D, increases osteocalcin expression only slightly. When the cells are incubated with the two vitamin metabolites simultaneously, however, osteocalcin expression is increased dramatically [28]. This suggests that vitamin A increases rather than decreases the demand for vitamin K in osteoblasts; one could argue that the proposed model predicts from this that vitamin A would aggravate vitamin D toxicity, despite the clear observation that vitamin A ameliorates vitamin D toxicity. Nevertheless, vitamin A downregulates the expression of MGP in rat [25] and human [29] cells. Since MGP is expressed broadly whereas osteocalcin is expressed only in osteoblasts, vitamin A is likely to exert a substantial net vitamin K-sparing effect, and would thus be predicted by the proposed model to ameliorate vitamin D toxicity, which is observed."​

I've read from a few gurus that there's an increased need for B-vitamins during vit D repletion. Vit C insufficiency can be involved as well, hence the characteristic lesions of scurvy; it's involved in collagen metabolism and mineralization, I believe it's also required to prevent excess calcium.
Yet another reason to supp ascorbic acid. Peat fans are too scared though.
 

haidut

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Is it OK to take it topically with the DMSO formula of Kuinone (or Pansterone/11-k DHT)???

DMSO and the SFA ester do not mix well. So, they can be applied at the same time but not on the same spot.
 

Amazoniac

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Yet another reason to supp ascorbic acid. Peat fans are too scared though.
I have my doubts about it. Industrial contaminants that Ray mentioned aside, it's difficult to get it right but easy to mess up trace minerals, especially if you don't have a safe margin for wasting. Most people that supplement it take more than they need. And it's not about food versus supplement because you can have the same effect from foods high in it. But it's just my opinion.
 

sugarbabe

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I have my doubts about it. Industrial contaminants that Ray mentioned aside, it's difficult to get it right but easy to mess up trace minerals, especially if you don't have a safe margin for wasting. Most people that supplement it take more than they need. And it's not about food versus supplement because you can have the same effect from foods high in it. But it's just my opinion.
I did not get the same effect from food. Vit C is one of the most safest supplements out there. People are dosing themselves with fat solubles left and right, yet won't take C due to a couple studies saying it messed with ceruloplasmin, ignoring the hundreds more proving it's benefits. You can get C that is pretty pure. If we were to go after the purity of C you'd have to look at the purity of everything you ingest including those cans of coke, spices, chocolate, etc. Chocolate is one you can't be sure you aren't getting lead.
 

Amazoniac

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I did not get the same effect from food. Vit C is one of the most safest supplements out there. People are dosing themselves with fat solubles left and right, yet won't take C due to a couple studies saying it messed with ceruloplasmin, ignoring the hundreds more proving it's benefits. You can get C that is pretty pure. If we were to go after the purity of C you'd have to look at the purity of everything you ingest including those cans of coke, spices, chocolate, etc. Chocolate is one you can't be sure you aren't getting lead.
Like I mentioned, it has nothing to do with purity. I agree with you on fat-solubles, but with vit C it's easy to get the desired amount from food, unlike vit D for example.
 

sugarbabe

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Like I mentioned, it has nothing to do with purity. I agree with you on fat-solubles, but with vit C it's easy to get the desired amount from food, unlike vit D for example.
Vitamin D is better regulated via the sun. But as far as getting plenty of C from food, I prefer not to chug orange juice and veggies so that is why I feel supps are necessary.
From the "Committee on Animal Nutrition, Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals" (1962) we find some startling figures. The recommended diet for the monkey - our closest mammalian relative - is 55 milligrams of ascorbic acid per kilogram of body weight or 3,830 milligrams of ascorbic acid per day for the average adult human. The daily amount suggested as adequate for the guinea pig varies depending upon which of two diets is selected and ranges from 42 to 167 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (based on a 300-gram guinea pig). This amounts to 2,920 milligrams to 11,650 milligrams per day for the average adult human.
SAVE THE GORILLAS
 

Rad

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I am hoping that the amount was 5000 IU rather than 5000 mg of D3 (cholecalciferol) daily. One international unit (IU) is 25 nanograms of D3. So 5000 milligrams would be 200 MILLION units (IU) of D3, which is a dangerous amount even as a single dose.

5000 IU supplementation daily for an adult is in different views a moderate to high amount. If things went from very low to very high in 2 plus months, it could be that the absorption was good, or the product had extra quantity. Sunlight and food sources of vitamin D also factor in.
Vitamin D Council | How do I get the vitamin D my body needs?

Oh yep, IU's, not mg.
 

Rad

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http://www.easy-immune-health.com/support-files/vitamin_d_toxicity_vitamin_k_masterjohn.pdf

"I propose that vitamin D exerts its toxic actions primarily by inducing a deficiency of vitamin K. According to this model, vitamin D upregulates the expression of certain proteins that must be activated by the vitamin K-dependent process of carboxylation; when the level of these proteins exceeds that which the pool of available vitamin K has the capacity to carboxylate, this pool becomes depleted."

"while vitamin A exerts a strong protective effect against vitamin D toxicity, its protection is not complete and vitamin D toxicity is not an exact mirror of vitamin A deficiency."

Comparison between the protective effects of vitamin K and vitamin A on the modulation of hypervitaminosis D3 short-term toxicity in adult albino rats

"Animals fed toxic doses of vitamin D bear a striking resemblance to animals deficient in vitamin K or the vitamin K-dependent proteins"

"[..]Taken together, these observations suggest that vitamin D and Warfarin exhibit similar toxicity profiles because they both induce a deficiency of vitamin K, even though the mechanism by which they contribute to this deficiency is different: while Warfarin directly inhibits the recycling of vitamin K, vitamin D increases the demand for vitamin K beyond that which can be fulfilled."

"A final challenge to this model is presented by the synergistic effect of vitamins A and D on osteocalcin expression. In human osteoblast cell culture, incubation with either all-trans-retinoic acid, a metabolite of vitamin A, or calcitriol, a metabolite of vitamin D, increases osteocalcin expression only slightly. When the cells are incubated with the two vitamin metabolites simultaneously, however, osteocalcin expression is increased dramatically [28]. This suggests that vitamin A increases rather than decreases the demand for vitamin K in osteoblasts; one could argue that the proposed model predicts from this that vitamin A would aggravate vitamin D toxicity, despite the clear observation that vitamin A ameliorates vitamin D toxicity. Nevertheless, vitamin A downregulates the expression of MGP in rat [25] and human [29] cells. Since MGP is expressed broadly whereas osteocalcin is expressed only in osteoblasts, vitamin A is likely to exert a substantial net vitamin K-sparing effect, and would thus be predicted by the proposed model to ameliorate vitamin D toxicity, which is observed."​

I've read from a few gurus that there's an increased need for B-vitamins during vit D repletion. Vit C insufficiency can be involved as well, hence the characteristic lesions of scurvy; it's involved in collagen metabolism and mineralization, I believe it's also required to prevent excess calcium.

Thanks, good info to remember. I take k with d now, though would have been high in k due to diet at the time. The bruising was weird and happened within days though.
 

Amazoniac

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Vitamin D is better regulated via the sun. But as far as getting plenty of C from food, I prefer not to chug orange juice and veggies so that is why I feel supps are necessary.

SAVE THE GORILLAS
No need to chug, you can eat a bit of acerola, guava, bell pepper, for example and they will provide you an excess if you're not careful.
Don't you think that there was already an adaptation to conserve vit C? Otherwise everyone would be severely deficient. Glutathione recycles it, so, up to a certain amount, vit C can spare it.
Why people that produce or sell fresh acerolas don't eat more of them to reach at least 3g? There's no excuse because they're practically devoid of other known nutrients in relation to vit C.
 
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sugarbabe

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No need to chug, you can eat a bit of acerola, guava, bell pepper, for example and they will provide you an excess if you're not careful.
Don't you think that there was already an adaptation to conserve vit C? Otherwise everyone would be severely deficient. Glutathione recycles it, so, up to a certain amount, vit C can spare it.
Why people that produce or sell fresh acerolas don't eat more of them to reach at least 3g? There's no excuse because they're practically devoid of other known nutrients in relation to vit C.
Why do you say 'if you're not careful', why would you need to be careful? I can take 8 grams ascorbic acid at once without diarrhea. I don't see why caution is warranted. Other than making sure you are getting enough minerals. Maybe people around here wouldn't need so many hormones if they weren't so cautious with it. (heart disease number one killer)
 

Amazoniac

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Why do you say 'if you're not careful', why would you need to be careful? I can take 8 grams ascorbic acid at once without diarrhea. I don't see why caution is warranted. Other than making sure you are getting enough minerals. Maybe people around here wouldn't need so many hormones if they weren't so cautious with it. (heart disease number one killer)
Careful to avoid the negative effects. Diarrhea is not a decent parameter. It's not good to mess up with trace minerals because they're more difficult to obtain and they come with the whole package that you can't get rid of as easily as the full package of water-soluble vitamins if you need specific ones.
This might interest you:
How humans make up for an 'inborn' vitamin C deficiency
https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/39639581_Amelie_Montel-Hagen
 
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