Caffeine Within The Context Of Anxiety And Depression

[khan]

I have taken this from the paper Is serotonin Upper or dower,page 170
"More-over, in a 3-week dietary intervention, depressed patients with a
restricted intake of sucrose and caffeine, which also increases extra-cellular serotonin (Nehlig et al., 1992), experienced a persistent amelioration in depressive symptoms (Christensen and Burrows,1990)."
I have OCD and melancholic depression from last 15 years. Whenever I take caffeinated drink, I get a very strong urge to move around. What should I make of that? Perhaps caffeine is not fine in the context of OCD? Please help me understand the situation. Thanks

 

[Makrosky]

Hi Khan,

Could you please elaborate a bit more ? When you say an "urge to move around" what do you mean exactly ? Like to erratically move on an adrenalin rush ? Or to move around like going out and have a walk and meet people ? Or move around doing OCD things ?

Please specify.

 

[khan]

Hi Khan,

Could you please elaborate a bit more ? When you say an "urge to move around" what do you mean exactly ? Like to erratically move on an adrenalin rush ? Or to move around like going out and have a walk and meet people ? Or move around doing OCD things ?

Please specify.

let me explain a bit more. After drinking coffee in the morning. I am not able to concentrate on a task like reading a book. Urge to move means that I feel like walking or running. When I get this urge I usually put on my shoes and walk about 1 or 2 hours nearby house or go the city center. Could be adrenaline rush? I am not sure. Also increases ocd thoughts like checking doors, if the stove is closed properly or automatic magical thoughts like contaminants (dust or germs) are somehow coming towards me or on my hands or clothes.

 

[Makrosky]

let me explain a bit more. After drinking coffee in the morning. I am not able to concentrate on a task like reading a book. Urge to move means that I feel like walking or running. When I get this urge I usually put on my shoes and walk about 1 or 2 hours nearby house or go the city center. Could be adrenaline rush? I am not sure. Also increases ocd thoughts like checking doors, if the stove is closed properly or automatic magical thoughts like contaminants (dust or germs) are somehow coming towards me or on my hands or clothes.

Hi Khan,

To me it clearly looks like a stress reaction. Cortisol, adrenalin and stuff exhacerbating your problems. Fight or flight reaction, that's why you have to go running. No doubt.

Did you drink the coffee having had a good, big, nutritious breakfast ? Or did you take it on an empty stomach ?

 

[khan]

Hi Khan,

To me it clearly looks like a stress reaction. Cortisol, adrenalin and stuff exhacerbating your problems. Fight or flight reaction, that's why you have to go running. No doubt.

Did you drink the coffee having had a good, big, nutritious breakfast ? Or did you take it on an empty stomach ?

Well I don't to coffee on empty stomach. I always take it after eating milky oat porridge. I have inclination towards what you said like adrenaline and cortisol. What about increase of extracellular increase of serotonin like I mentioned in the first post. So far I know dopamine excess in implicated in OCD and coffee is pro dopaminergic. Anyway thanks for the replies.

 

[Makrosky]

Well I don't to coffee on empty stomach. I always take it after eating milky oat porridge. I have inclination towards what you said like adrenaline and cortisol. What about increase of extracellular increase of serotonin like I mentioned in the first post. So far I know dopamine excess in implicated in OCD and coffee is pro dopaminergic. Anyway thanks for the replies.

For the serotonin, dopamine and OCD, I don't know. Really. It's complex.

For the coffee and the stress reaction, this is what I do know and it's simple :

Oats porridge (it's not milky since it's dry) might not provide enough sustained glucose to keep up the metabolism of a coffee. It's not pure sugar, it's a carbohydrate, so it has to be turned into glucose and before that happens, coffee might have asked for more glycogen than your liver can provide. Try adding a good ammount of honey and/or coconut oil to the porridge or sugar to the coffee. So the sugar will give you quick fuel and the porridge will give you sustained fuel. Some protein like a couple of tsp of collagen or an egg would be good as well, you need a bit of protein. Then you can have the coffee and see how it goes.

Anyway there can be reasons even when you are well fed you have very bad tolerance to caffeine. Liver issues mainly. There's more info on the forum, look up for it.

 

[lindsay]

I drink espresso every morning and cold brewed coffee throughout the day. I keep gelatin squares made with fruit juice, gelatin and sugar on hand and try to always eat one of those when I have my coffee. I also put a lot of cream and sugar and some salt in the coffee. Lately, I've been eating a Skyr style yogurt in the morning with my first coffee, since the skyr is high in protein and the only yogurt I really tolerate well and like (Siggi's brand). Also, being very generous with cream (I prefer half & half) and sugar help greatly with the stress response. I am lucky in that coffee doesn't give me the jitters (only happiness), but take it slowly.

By the way, how do you tolerate oats? They always used to be one of the worst digestive offenders for me - which is sad because I love well cooked oats. Could only eat them when I was on antibiotics. Do you soak them overnight? I ask because if you experience depression, it might be best to avoid foods which cause the gut to overproduce serotonin. Some people tolerate starch with ease. If you are not experiencing digestive upset, then that's good.

P.S. I didn't realize it was OCD to be worried about turning off the stove - guilty as charged. I am super OCD about that, but probably because I have left the house before and left the stove on......

 

[Makrosky]

I drink espresso every morning and cold brewed coffee throughout the day. I keep gelatin squares made with fruit juice, gelatin and sugar on hand and try to always eat one of those when I have my coffee. I also put a lot of cream and sugar and some salt in the coffee. Lately, I've been eating a Skyr style yogurt in the morning with my first coffee, since the skyr is high in protein and the only yogurt I really tolerate well and like (Siggi's brand). Also, being very generous with cream (I prefer half & half) and sugar help greatly with the stress response. I am lucky in that coffee doesn't give me the jitters (only happiness), but take it slowly.

By the way, how do you tolerate oats? They always used to be one of the worst digestive offenders for me - which is sad because I love well cooked oats. Could only eat them when I was on antibiotics. Do you soak them overnight? I ask because if you experience depression, it might be best to avoid foods which cause the gut to overproduce serotonin. Some people tolerate starch with ease. If you are not experiencing digestive upset, then that's good.

P.S. I didn't realize it was OCD to be worried about turning off the stove - guilty as charged. I am super OCD about that, but probably because I have left the house before and left the stove on......

I normally don't eat porridge but I had it this morning for breakfast and it worked very good for me. I soaked them overnight, yes. Added a bit of chocolate, honey, and cooked. After the porridge I had a couple of greek yougurts+honey plus 2 tsp of collagen powder. All in all, it felt like very good breakfast I must say.

Regarding OCD, you don't have OCD believe me you would already know. OCD is people who physically go back and forth home five, ten, fifteen times in a row because they think they left the door open or the stove on, despite having checked it 14 times before.

 

[khan]

By the way, how do you tolerate oats?

I drink espresso every morning and cold brewed coffee throughout the day. I keep gelatin squares made with fruit juice, gelatin and sugar on hand and try to always eat one of those when I have my coffee. I also put a lot of cream and sugar and some salt in the coffee. Lately, I've been eating a Skyr style yogurt in the morning with my first coffee, since the skyr is high in protein and the only yogurt I really tolerate well and like (Siggi's brand). Also, being very generous with cream (I prefer half & half) and sugar help greatly with the stress response. I am lucky in that coffee doesn't give me the jitters (only happiness), but take it slowly.

By the way, how do you tolerate oats? They always used to be one of the worst digestive offenders for me - which is sad because I love well cooked oats. Could only eat them when I was on antibiotics. Do you soak them overnight? I ask because if you experience depression, it might be best to avoid foods which cause the gut to overproduce serotonin. Some people tolerate starch with ease. If you are not experiencing digestive upset, then that's good.

P.S. I didn't realize it was OCD to be worried about turning off the stove - guilty as charged. I am super OCD about that, but probably because I have left the house before and left the stove on......

I use pre-cooked refined oats. In the morning, I first boil milk and then add oats and let it boil further for few mins. I think, I tolerate it quite well, not getting any pain, cramps or gas. Skyr I also use but not everyday because I get gout if I use it everyday, I have figured it out after trial and error. Other protein sources which gives me gout, if I use everyday are beef, lamb, liver, hard cheese and red lentils.

Makrosky is right, u dont have OCD. In OCD it becomes difficult to trust your own senses. Like he said even though you have checked stove several times but still getting thoughts might be it is still open.

 

[Makrosky]

I use pre-cooked refined oats. In the morning, I first boil milk and then add oats and let it boil further for few mins. I think, I tolerate it quite well, not getting any pain, cramps or gas. Skyr I also use but not everyday because I get gout if I use it everyday, I have figured it out after trial and error. Other protein sources which gives me gout, if I use everyday are beef, lamb, liver, hard cheese and red lentils.

Makrosky is right, u dont have OCD. In OCD it becomes difficult to trust your own senses. Like he said even though you have checked stove several times but still getting thoughts might be it is still open.

How do you notice the gout ?

 

[khan]

How do you notice the gout ?

Swelling and pain in my left toe. Doctor did blood test and was showing high uric acid. Left toe became disfigured compared to right foot.