Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

[snowboard111]

The sedative effect are much more intense than that, not sleepy or anything...I've read there's a connection between caffeine and barbiturate... but can this be THAT much?

It's definitely not enough sugar, I get PLENTY of that and not overly sensitive to caffeine either, I've been drinking around 4 cups a day for a long time.

I didn't took the B1 today and felt good... maybe the additives they put in it?
The caffeine pills has nothing else so unless the caffeine itself is bad quality, I doubt it's that.

Will try another brand of B1 since I surely don't want an increase in lactate.

Anyway, if anybody has another explanation/theory it's more than welcome

Thanks

 

[tara]

The sedative effect are much more intense than that, not sleepy or anything...

Not just sleepy - I've been in states where I find it almost impossible to move even a hand in the morning. After a little coffee the evening before.

But my experience probably has nothing to do with yours. No doubt there are other hypotheses. :)
Thiamine may also have strong anti-stress effects in high doses?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I've sometimes crashed with a lot of coffee and sugar, and Niacinamide. Just felt very sleepy and slept for awhile. Something about the three together sometimes is VERY sedating. Maybe it makes me hypoglycemic?

 

[SQu]

I'd appreciate info too. My husband in particular is very sleepy on caffeine even without added taurine, theanine, and about to experiment with leaving out b1 too. To me it feels like the progesterone raising effect. It doesn't feel hypoglycemic. Symptoms are not low energy ones. Warm and sleepy not worn out and moody. If it was still early days I'd assume a need for rest, part of healing. Other than sedation it's doing wonders for us both.

 

[snowboard111]

Hey! I did a little bit of digging and reopen the Caffeine article by Ray and I had highlight this part when I first read it:

" To talk about caffeine, it’s necessary to talk about uric acid. Uric acid, synthesized in the body, is both a stimulant and a very important antioxidant, and its structure is very similar to that of caffeine.A deficiency of uric acid is a serious problem. Caffeine and uric acid are in the group of chemicals called purines.

Purines (along with pyrimidines) are components of the nucleic acids, DNA and RNA, but they have many other functions. In general, substances related to purines are stimulants, and substances related to pyrimidines are sedatives."

He continues with a complex explanation that is a little bit over my head... but I research a little bit on pyrimidines and on Wikipedia (I know... ), there's this:

"The pyrimidine ring system has wide occurrence in nature[4] as substituted and ring fused compounds and derivatives, including the nucleotides, thiamine (Vitamin B1) and alloxan. It is also found in many synthetic compounds such as barbiturates and the HIV drug, zidovudine. Although pyrimidine derivatives such as uric acid and alloxan were known in the early 19th century,"

It kind explain a bit (I think?) why Thiamine would have a sedative effect but I'm still quite confused about caffeine on it's own... it's a stimulant and a sedative at the same time???

 

[Drareg]

Caffeine raising lactic acid and ammonia is something I didn't know! Is this why b1 is getting used up by caffeine?
Did you recommend 300mg of thiamine with coffee Haidut?

I'm thinking of stopping caffeine in excess after reading this thread. I always felt good on 1 cup for a feel good effect,I just drank more to be social.
If k2 is just as good for the liver I might stick with that, I remember taking 100mg of thiamine with dinner to prevent a slump and it worked incredibly well, I got paranoid of it after looking at study saying influenced histamine.
Does thiamine also lower ammonia?

 

[jb116]

Thiamine does lower ammonia

 

[tca300]

From Protective CO2 and aging

" Bat caves usually have slightly more carbon dioxide than the outside atmosphere, but they usually contain a large amount of ammonia, and bats maintain a high serum level of carbon dioxide, which protects them from the otherwise toxic effects of the ammonia."

 

[Drareg]

I'm lowering caffeine,get rid of excess fluid also and advantage.
Theanine seems to be a better adaptogen for me, keep thiamine for slumps maybe.

 

[m_arch]

Thyroid is also adrenergic if you take on empty stomach. So is aspirin and DNP, or anything that raises metabolism really.

Can someone explain to me what adrenergic means from a peat perspective? I understand aspirin, DNP and caffeine are all pro-metabolic and uncouplers but the google/wiki definition of adrenergic makes no sense to me.

 

[haidut]

Can someone explain to me what adrenergic means from a peat perspective? I understand aspirin, DNP and caffeine are all pro-metabolic and uncouplers but the google/wiki definition of adrenergic makes no sense to me.

I meant it as that thyroid can also cause a stress response if you taken on empty stomach and don't have glycogen. Whenever you ramp up metabolism there better be enough glycogen to support it, otherwise stress hormones will rise to provide that fuel from muscles and fat. The classic definition of adrenergic is a substance that acts as beta receptor agonist, and I don't think thyroid acts like that.

 

[m_arch]

I meant it as that thyroid can also cause a stress response if you taken on empty stomach and don't have glycogen. Whenever you ramp up metabolism there better be enough glycogen to support it, otherwise stress hormones will rise to provide that fuel from muscles and fat. The classic definition of adrenergic is a substance that acts as beta receptor agonist, and I don't think thyroid acts like that.

Thanks for clarifying.
What would you give as a rule of thumb for ratios - say you're taking 800mg of caffeine pills a day - how much glycogen would you need to balance this out?

 

[m_arch]

Yes, phase 2 detox will be much slower. So, half-life will probably be double the "normal" one of 5-6 hours.

A DNA test said I had fast phase 1 and slow phase 2. I guess I'll take 200mg first thing in the morning and see how that goes. I wonder if I can build up to 800mg if that will speed up my phase 2.

 

[dookie]

Just to add a bit to the discussion.. I have found antibiotics, minocycline and doxycycline in particular, to improve tolerance to caffeine, allowing for higher intakes, with less euphoria/crashes

 

[haidut]

Thanks for clarifying.
What would you give as a rule of thumb for ratios - say you're taking 800mg of caffeine pills a day - how much glycogen would you need to balance this out?

I don't know about glycogen since that test has not been done as far as I know, but I have seen studies showing that ingesting caffeine with about 30g of sugar prevented the jitteriness.

 

[haidut]

A DNA test said I had fast phase 1 and slow phase 2. I guess I'll take 200mg first thing in the morning and see how that goes. I wonder if I can build up to 800mg if that will speed up my phase 2.

I would not trust that DNA test much. Nothing is set in stone and if you indeed have slow phase 2 then it is much more likely to be due to functional liver issues cased by PUFA and hypothyroidism than something genetic. Keep in mind that official genetic dogma refuses to explain why wouldn't genetic health problems get de-selected for by evolution if they were truly genetic. Same with "hereditary" conditions like schizophrenia, bipolar, obesity, diabetes, etc.

I bet that even doing 200mg for a week would greatly improve your tolerance levels for it, and you can probably raise the dose by 200mg every week.

 

[Peata]

I am a big guy, I think maybe even a 1/4 pill might do it for some.

Oh, and caffeine rocks.

Took 1/2 doxylamine last night, and was asleep prob 20 min later. I slept well all night. The reason I took it was because I was having one of those times when I was feeling tired but wired (not sure how else to put it). I knew the doxy would kick in pretty fast and I didn't have to get up for anything today. But I had no hangover. Half tablet definitely the way.

 

[What-a-Riot]

I take about 6.25 mg doxylamine most nights, it's been consistently effective for months

 

[Dopamine]

I used K2 and caffeine specifically for liver health. The other things you list are also beneficial but for liver health the most helpful would be the following, ranked in order of importance:

Caffeine, K2
Aspirin, glycine, MB
Taurine
Vitamin E
Theanine
Thiamine
BCAA
Pyridoxine
Biotin

Obviously, these can be used in tandem. Vitamin B1 is probably a good adjunct to caffeine as it helps control the lactate response some people get from it.

Why is K2 so good for the liver? Is this mostly based on personal experience? Would other quinones like tetracycline, emodin, be even better potentially?

 

[haidut]

Why is K2 so good for the liver? Is this mostly based on personal experience? Would other quinones like tetracycline, emodin, be even better potentially?

No, it is not just personal experience. This topic has been discussed so many times. Did you search the forum?