Caffeine May Be More Evil Than You Think!

Filip1993

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@Shultz How much water do you put in the aeropress when you make an "espresso"? And do you make all coffee once a day and store it in a thermos or something?
 

schultz

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Filip1993 said:
@Shultz How much water do you put in the aeropress when you make an "espresso"? And do you make all coffee once a day and store it in a thermos or something?

Usually I make 45g of beans with 1-1/2 cups of milk. I use around 3/4 cup of water for this (I had to check as I usually just eye it). I use the Starbucks milk frother thingy to heat my milk. I used to use the stove top but it got annoying, and for some reason the frother makes it taste better. I work from home so I usually just come in and make a latte when I want one. The aeropress is awesome. It can even make junky coffee taste half decent.
 

moss

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schultz said:
Filip1993 said:
@Shultz How much water do you put in the aeropress when you make an "espresso"? And do you make all coffee once a day and store it in a thermos or something?

Usually I make 45g of beans with 1-1/2 cups of milk. I use around 3/4 cup of water for this (I had to check as I usually just eye it). I use the Starbucks milk frother thingy to heat my milk. I used to use the stove top but it got annoying, and for some reason the frother makes it taste better. I work from home so I usually just come in and make a latte when I want one. The aeropress is awesome. It can even make junky coffee taste half decent.


I agree schultz. - Aeropress is great. I alternate between another machine but the beauty of the aeropress is when I am working away from home/traveling it comes as part of the whole package. Getting a halfway coffee matters and ideally I drink coffee with meals now but when this is not possible I ramp up the gelatine/milk/sugar. There is a certain delight in doing this, previously I was an espresso, no milk, no sugar bore and I wonder how the hell I ever did that for so long and I would get the jitters and now I don't.
And when in a cafe there is also a certain delight spooning in the sugars and being out and proud!
 

tara

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moss said:
And when in a cafe there is also a certain delight spooning in the sugars and being out and proud!
Yes. I recently bought a latte and the waitress brought me a little basket of some artificial sweeteners to go with it. I asked if there was sugar, and she grabbed some off another table for me. :)
 

dd99

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tara said:
moss said:
And when in a cafe there is also a certain delight spooning in the sugars and being out and proud!
Yes. I recently bought a latte and the waitress brought me a little basket of some artificial sweeteners to go with it. I asked if there was sugar, and she grabbed some off another table for me. :)

Haha, yeah! And when people start tutting about how my two sachets of sugar are bad for me, I put a third sachet in.
 

youngandold

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Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.
 

CoolTweetPete

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youngandold said:
post 113376 Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.

You're of the opinion that Ray Peat (or many of the others on this forum like Haidut or Roddy) have had their analytic thinking 'dumbed' as you so eloquently put it? :ninja
 
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haidut

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youngandold said:
post 113376 Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.

What drug/substance do you suggest instead?
Btw, I do agree on dumbing down the slave workers and that caffeine allows people to work harder/longer, both of which are things corporations like. But caffeine making people dumber...please elaborate.
 
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narouz

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youngandold said:
post 113376 Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.



Charge refuted.
Next!
 
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narouz said:
post 113490
youngandold said:
post 113376 Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.



Charge refuted.
Next!


Why not just sell what the coffee elves are having?
 
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youngandold

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I suggest optimizing thyroid to the upper third of the normal range.
Make sure BOTH T3 and T4 are high normal.

Yes caffeine jitterness and speedyness dumb down what matters the most. Real analytic thinking.
You must work hard AND smart.
If you can't have 'em both then just work smart even if you are a bit lazy.

This caffeine defense reminded me of 60s hippies defending their 'mind expanding' pot, LSD, mushrooms and even cocaine.
 

tara

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youngandold said:
post 113965 Yes caffeine jitterness and speedyness dumb down what matters the most. Real analytic thinking.
If caffeine makes you jittery and speedy and stupid, you are wise to avoid it (or drink less).
Coffee tolerance varies depending on the person and their current nutritional and health status.

Have you read a few of the threads here about coffee/caffeine, esp. some of Haidut's? There is lots of thought about this here. Coffee with inadequate fuel can be expected to cause stress. No one here recommends that. Some people get stress reactions to coffee. There is discussion on mitigation. I don't handle coffee well in more than tiny amounts, at least so far, and there are others in this boat - maybe you are one of us. But some people thrive on it, and there is lots of research indicating health benefits in at least some conditions. The risk/benefit profile is quite different from eg cocaine. I wouldn't assume your own experiences apply to everyone.

BTW, I too agree that many corporations are probably quite happy when people drink lots of coffee and work harder for them, and if that was the only reason for drinking coffee I wouldn't be defending it.
 
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David Chung

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Based on studies, it is pretty clear that caffeine is a stress agent whose consumption leads to short-term cortisol increase. This appears to be true even when consumed with carbohydrate (i.e., sugar). Whether this is a negative or not is not known - sometimes, there is a positive physical adaptations to periodic, regular short-term increases in cortisol (e.g., NSAID).

Generally, studies are contradictory regarding caffein's effect on testosterone levels. Although what is important is chronic caffein consumption on long-term testosterone levels, I have not seen many studies on this. One study indicates that, for overweight men, one month of coffee consumption increases testosterone. Over a longer time frame, the levels falls to the pre-drinking period level. The fact that the study was done on overweight people is problematic - abundance of stored fat could have had an impact on the study results.

I am not a big fan of caffeine, though I use it regularly as a pre-exercise supplement. As a healthy individual, I have not gained much benefit from it (other than getting my body to be alert for exercise).
 

DaveFoster

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Coffee/caffeine is the ultimate mindless-slave making drug.

It makes corporate slaves work harder yet dumbs analytic thinking so they won't realize they are stuck in a go-nowhere rat race.

No wonder it is given for free at so many corporations.

You'll get better results by optimizing thyroid (to work harder) while reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books (to work smarter and go somewhere in life).

Bitter but true.
This is one of the stupidest posts I've seen in a while on about five different levels.

And if your coffee's bitter, you're doing it wrong.
 

tara

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Yep. Lots of things with a reputation for helping the liver are bitter.
Yes caffeine jitterness and speedyness dumb down what matters the most. Real analytic thinking.
You are aware that lots of people drink coffee without jitters and speedyness, right?

This appears to be true even when consumed with carbohydrate (i.e., sugar).
Do any of those studies control for overall adequate nutrition (really adequate, not low-calorie public health standards of adequacy), as well as really adequate carbs/sugar before the coffee consumption?
 

bodacious

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According to Datis Kharrazian, people can be split into two groups depending on how their immune system generally behaves: TH1 and TH2 (T-cell helper 1 & 2).

Individuals will have a negative immune reaction to certain substances, depending on their TH status. Coffee will cause a negative immune reaction if you're TH2.

This was the first place I'd heard of it, and I don't have any more of the picture to validate that information.

If it's right, then it could be that some people react really positively to coffee/caffeine, and others don't.
 

Drareg

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Based on studies, it is pretty clear that caffeine is a stress agent whose consumption leads to short-term cortisol increase. This appears to be true even when consumed with carbohydrate (i.e., sugar). Whether this is a negative or not is not known - sometimes, there is a positive physical adaptations to periodic, regular short-term increases in cortisol (e.g., NSAID).

Generally, studies are contradictory regarding caffein's effect on testosterone levels. Although what is important is chronic caffein consumption on long-term testosterone levels, I have not seen many studies on this. One study indicates that, for overweight men, one month of coffee consumption increases testosterone. Over a longer time frame, the levels falls to the pre-drinking period level. The fact that the study was done on overweight people is problematic - abundance of stored fat could have had an impact on the study results.

I am not a big fan of caffeine, though I use it regularly as a pre-exercise supplement. As a healthy individual, I have not gained much benefit from it (other than getting my body to be alert for exercise).

"Stress agent " would need to be defined,it's certainly not clear.
It sounds like a hormesis bent your taking?
Coffee is also slightly different to caffeine.
 

David Chung

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"Stress agent " would need to be defined,it's certainly not clear.
I defined it in the post - I wrote that it leads to cortisol release. So, that is what I meant by a stress agent.

It sounds like a hormesis bent your taking?
People's response to coffee is all over the map. Some seem to show hormetic reaction, while others don't.

I do want to note that when one is trying to understand how a supplement or drug exerts its effect, IMHO, one should always consider the possibility that it is working via a hormetic mechanism. Hormesis is very wide spread, since it is about adaptation and plasticity.

Coffee is also slightly different to caffeine.
Agreed. For the purposes of this thread, though, I think we have been using the terms interchangeably ...
 
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