Caffeine is great but constantly pushes forward sleep cycle - what to do?

RealNeat

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
1,170
Location
Minnesota
theanine always does the trick for me when i have extra coffee and can’t sleep
+1 however one isn't addressing any causes with supps, though it does work. Ben Greenfields website has good ways to handle caffeine and coffee, though he's anti sugar like most biohackers.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
432
theanine always does the trick for me when i have extra coffee and can’t sleep
Never tried but sounds like a good idea

-Get full spectrum sunlight in the eyes as soon as possible in the morning and at regular intervals throughout the day if possible

-get a good dose of sunlight around solar noon for half an hour with the least clothing possible as able

-getting a solid dose of electrolytes has always increased my caffeine tolerance, cut down on any adrenaline-related side effects, and helped me crash out calmly and quickly before bed despite evening coffee or espresso. Boiling vegetables for half an hour with herbs, roots, spices, etc makes the broth great. Also add plenty of salt and take alongside milk for calcium. Magnesium gets an honorable mention here too.

-taking melatonin will steal from your body's necessity to produce it and melatonin is made from serotonin, which means that when it's made naturally, it's like a natural serotonin remover. IIRC melatonin only increases the chance that you'll fall asleep within a 20 minute window, but can backfire if you don't because the neurofeedback loop tells your body to stop synthesizing it. Probably takes much more than 300mcg for that to happen, but I did talk to a girl who kept ramping her dose up to 50mg a night to which she was telling me she had insomnia, only sleeping for 2 hours more often than not.

Best of luck
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,517
Location
Germany
Never tried but sounds like a good idea

-Get full spectrum sunlight in the eyes as soon as possible in the morning and at regular intervals throughout the day if possible

-get a good dose of sunlight around solar noon for half an hour with the least clothing possible as able

-getting a solid dose of electrolytes has always increased my caffeine tolerance, cut down on any adrenaline-related side effects, and helped me crash out calmly and quickly before bed despite evening coffee or espresso. Boiling vegetables for half an hour with herbs, roots, spices, etc makes the broth great. Also add plenty of salt and take alongside milk for calcium. Magnesium gets an honorable mention here too.

-taking melatonin will steal from your body's necessity to produce it and melatonin is made from serotonin, which means that when it's made naturally, it's like a natural serotonin remover. IIRC melatonin only increases the chance that you'll fall asleep within a 20 minute window, but can backfire if you don't because the neurofeedback loop tells your body to stop synthesizing it. Probably takes much more than 300mcg for that to happen, but I did talk to a girl who kept ramping her dose up to 50mg a night to which she was telling me she had insomnia, only sleeping for 2 hours more often than not.

Best of luck

Agree with everything you wrote.

Taking such high amounts of melatonin like the girl in your story is beyond stupid because this will lead to you having Melatonin at high levels in your bloodstream ALL DAY LONG. This defeats the whole purpose of Melatonin as a Zeitgeber (I love that you Americans enjoy German words so much btw lol).
 

AnonE

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
227
I thought about this some more, and it's something that's gotten worse lately despite heavy caffeine consumption for quite a while. I've been having anywhere from 200mg - 400mg average daily for the last 5 years. This year my sleep's been shifted a bit (though I've always been a night owl), and last few weeks my sleep has been crap.

Interesting is the last few months I've introduced more Peat ideas: more calcium in diet, more sugars/carbs, no more fasting. And in terms of supplements, I'm on taurine, vitamin B1, B2, B3, B6, all the fat solubles (A,D,E,K2), magnesium, glycine. Occasional liver eating too. Maybe I've crashed my serotonin too low lol, if such a thing is possible. Though my weightlifting seems to be improving. In general I'm fairly lean / muscular compared to the average, 178cm / 75kg.

Lately I'm also extremely sensitive to naps, as in, if I do so, then I can be certain that night of sleep is going to be difficult... But naps feel so good sometimes... :)
 

Ignoramus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
71
I recently switched from coffee to cacao and it's so much better for me, personally. I use 1 teaspoon of cacao mixed with hot milk and sugar. I'll have another cup post-workout if I need one to get through the rest of the day. This still has caffeine, but it doesn't hit like coffee, and my sleep is so much better now. Give it a try!
 

jpgio

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
77
Yeah I've heard that, I try for 12 hrs before sleep to be my last sip, but it doesn't feel enough. I could up it to 14 maybe? Seems excessive, then I basically only get it right in the morning, and can't sip on it until lunch.
I have to give myself any where from 12-15 hours after coffee it’s usually about 14 hours after coffee until I can sleep aspirin decreases this to 12 hours pretty reliably
 

Ravenslore

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
35
You should listen to the Tim Ferriss interview with Dr. Andrew Huberman. He's a neuro-biologist who does an excellent job explaining most of the topics that came up in this thread and gives some great "hacks" for getting your brain on the circadian timing you want.
 

AnonE

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
227
You should listen to the Tim Ferriss interview with Dr. Andrew Huberman. He's a neuro-biologist who does an excellent job explaining most of the topics that came up in this thread and gives some great "hacks" for getting your brain on the circadian timing you want.

Sounds good, do you have a particular link I could check out?
 

Barry

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
79
Why not quit caffeine and coffee altogether? Then replace it with sugar, lots of it! This is a serious response. I was drinking a couple cups of coffee a day, with lots of sugar and milk, and could not avoid periodic headaches. Then I slowly weaned myself off of coffee and just increased my sugar intake. I really don't miss coffee at all. Occasionally I will have a cup of coffee, but I get such a caffeine overdose now that I just try to avoid it completely.
 

Ravenslore

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
35
If caffeine is really a factor in your ability to sleep it points to a metabolic problem in the liver. I drink the same amount (quite a bit) every day and consider any lowered tolerance to it to be an indication of a liver problem. I adjust vitamins, minerals, and nutrients especially sugar to get that excellent caffeine tolerance. It's the fastest diagnostic I have for liver status.
 

AnonE

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
227
If caffeine is really a factor in your ability to sleep it points to a metabolic problem in the liver. I drink the same amount (quite a bit) every day and consider any lowered tolerance to it to be an indication of a liver problem. I adjust vitamins, minerals, and nutrients especially sugar to get that excellent caffeine tolerance. It's the fastest diagnostic I have for liver status.

Possibly, I thought I had my nutrient bases covered - you name a pro-metabolic vitamin/mineral and I probably take it.

One thing I haven't taken until only recently, which has correlated to much better Caffeine tolerance and energy levels, is iron(!). Taking about 50mg a day has given way better energy at the gym, better sleep, and improved caffeine tolerance. Feeling a bit like a new person over the last week.

It's something I shied away from since reading about Peat. But I wonder if all my habits have been draining iron too much. Coffee, hard exercise, aspirin, and I'm sure a few other things I do Peat-related all drain iron I believe.

I tried supplementing every other mineral and vitamin I could think of, but nothing has helped like iron lately. Very weird, because I'm definitely of the mindset of being wary of high iron.
 

Ravenslore

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
35
Oh wow. Iron makes me really sick. I had to find another way to raise it because mine was extremely low also. Taking a B complex and CoQ10 fixed it for me.
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,146
No. Read up adenosine's function in regards to the sleep cycle, antagonizing it will lead to increased wakefulness.

Adenosine increases wakefulness only if your dopamine is converting to adrenaline. Adenosine acts as a brake on dopamine. Lowering adenosine will increase dopamine. Dopamine converting to adrenaline is excitatory, dopamine staying as dopamine is inhibitory. PUFA causes dopamine to convert to adrenaline, calcium causes dopamine to stay as dopamine. So over time Peating will make caffeine inhibitory, not excitatory. Caffeine used to keep me up, as expected, but now it increases alertness while increasing relaxation at the same time, and actually helps me sleep deeper. It's exactly analogous to how most people think thyroid is excitatory, but it's actually inhibitory once you take it long enough.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
ShirtTieFitness The Great Coffee Experiment: Caffeine Tested, The Live Series And Daily Logs Coffee 13
F Did anyone noticed that Thyroid meds work better with coffee/caffeine? Ask For Help or Advice 4
F Your experience with coffee/caffeine in context of hypothyroidism? Ask For Help or Advice 14
Hgreen56 How much caffeine from coffee powder goes through a coffee filter? Coffee 7
U Is caffeine intolerance good or bad sign? Coffee 5
cupofcoffee Caffeine promotes the expression of telomerase reverse transcriptase to regulate cellular senescence and aging Coffee 16
Lokzo Teacrine Benefits: An Alternative To Caffeine/Coffee Supplements 0
C How to deal with the negative side effects of caffeine ? Ask For Help or Advice 3
B Confused about Caffeine Ask For Help or Advice 9
ddjd insomnia from caffeine disappears on fruitarian diet Ask For Help or Advice 83
Mauritio Cistanche more effective at decreasing lipid peroxidation and free radicals than Vitamin E and Caffeine Science 66
TopGun1911 How do you deal with caffeine withdrawals? Ask For Help or Advice 3
B Caffeine irratible? Ask For Help or Advice 7
B Caffeine irratible, trouble sleeping? Caffeine 14
IROM Alpecin shampoo: Caffeine, Taurine and Niacinamide (are corporations on to Peating?) Hair & Nails 9
G Starting Caffeine - Lots of Health Problems - Asthma, Erectile Dysfunction, Hypertonic Pelvic Floor, Hair Loss, Anxiety/Depression Caffeine 54
Nuri55 Can I Dissolve Caffeine Powder In Boiled Water And Then Apply On My Scalp? Hair & Nails 22
M Post Caffeine Symptoms Symptoms, Causes 13
U Anyone Had Health Improvements From Reducing Caffeine Intake? Coffee 42
M How To Treat Leaky Blood-brain-barrier If One Is Sensitive To Caffeine Pill? Ask For Help or Advice 3
H Caffeine Giving Me Anxiety Ask For Help or Advice 1
ScurveDream DHEA Or Pregnenolone To Combat Possible Caffeine-induced Stress? Ask For Help or Advice 9
S Other Things Like Caffeine To Try? Caffeine 3
J Mixing Caffeine, Aspirin, & Antihistamine Experiments 6
ecstatichamster Caffeine Lowers Cerebral Blood Flow Scientific Studies 7
E New Evidence That Higher Caffeine And Urate Levels Are Protective Against Parkinson's Disease Scientific Studies 2
Mito New Evidence That Higher Caffeine And Urate Levels Are Protective Against Parkinson’s Articles & Scientific Studies 0
Tristan Loscha Caffeine Decreases Vitamin D Receptor Protein Expression In Vitro D 0
Kingpinguin How Do People Handle Caffeine? Coffee 34
Hgreen56 Caffeine Cause Joint Pain/inflammation Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
Hgreen56 Has Someone Positive Experience Lowering Cortisol With Caffeine? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
fitnessgirl Caffeine 3x300mg/day Safe? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1
S.Seneff The Effects Of Caffeine On Lipid And Mineral Content In The Serum Of Rats Caffeine 6
maillol Caffeine Reduces Fatty Liver But Increases FFA Metabolism 32
J Caffeine Ask For Help or Advice 7
H How Does Caffeine Stop My Hairloss? Hair & Nails 2
S How To Take Caffeine Without Raising Blood Pressure Caffeine 22
E Is Caffeine Tolerance A Big Deal? Coffee 0
ScurveDream Re-introducing Caffeine Back In To My Diet . How Should I Do It? Diet 9
L Caffeine Protects Dopaminergic Neurons From Dopamine-Induced Neurodegeneration Via Synergistic Adeno Scientific Studies 2
R Why Does Caffeine + Milk Do This To Me? Milk 8
methylenewhite Minocycline Lowers My Caffeine Tolerance Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
Sativa "Caffeine Salicylate" - A Novel Compound? Supplements 23
michael94 Stōk Caffeine Shots Caffeine 0
Cirion Most Cost Effective / Nutrient Dense Caffeine/Coffee? Caffeine 16
BearWithMe Could The Caffeine Slow Down Metabolic Rate, When Calories Are Not Abundant? Ask For Help or Advice 1
E L-theanine And Caffeine Improve Sustained Attention, Impulsivity And Cognition In Children Scientific Studies 2
bzmazu L-theanine And Caffeine For Exam Performance Etc Stress 1
S Are Caffeine Pills/Powder Okay? Coffee 6
M Caffeine And Thyroid Function Ask For Help or Advice 10

Similar threads

Top