Caffeine Is A Potent Anti-estrogen; Can Block Estrogen "receptor" Completely

[Ritchie]

Thank you very much! Appreciated

 

[tara]

post 111695 I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day.

7.2g caffeine/day looks potentially quite dangerous to me.
This is the reason there have been restrictions on pure caffeine powder lately - quantities like this sometimes kill.
I wish people wouldn't risk their lives so readily. I don't want people to die. And I'd like to be able to buy pure caffeine powder.
Even if it turns out OK for you (and there's a chance it might), I hope others don't copy this.

 

[answersfound]

post 111695 I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day.

7.2g caffeine/day looks potentially quite dangerous to me.
This is the reason there have been restrictions on pure caffeine powder lately - quantities like this sometimes kill.
I wish people wouldn't risk their lives so readily. I don't want people to die. And I'd like to be able to buy pure caffeine powder.
Even if it turns out OK for you (and there's a chance it might), I hope others don't copy this.

Agreed. When Haidut posts these types of studies, he is not necessarily suggesting that you should go try this. If you want to reduce/block estrogen, there are many other ways that are also safer. In my experience, I only needed about 700 mg caffeine spread throughout the day to fix my liver issues. Once I started using thyroid and my liver became more efficient, I only needed about 300-400 mg spread throughout the day. Rather than aim for specific dosages, I recommend you start slow and listen to your body as it well tell you how much it requires. Haidut provides these studies to confirm Ray's theories about how the body works. What you are doing sounds very dangerous and unnecessary.

 

[DaveFoster]

post 111982

post 111695 I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day.

7.2g caffeine/day looks potentially quite dangerous to me.
This is the reason there have been restrictions on pure caffeine powder lately - quantities like this sometimes kill.
I wish people wouldn't risk their lives so readily. I don't want people to die. And I'd like to be able to buy pure caffeine powder.
Even if it turns out OK for you (and there's a chance it might), I hope others don't copy this.

Agreed. When Haidut posts these types of studies, he is not necessarily suggesting that you should go try this. If you want to reduce/block estrogen, there are many other ways that are also safer. In my experience, I only needed about 700 mg caffeine spread throughout the day to fix my liver issues. Once I started using thyroid and my liver became more efficient, I only needed about 300-400 mg spread throughout the day. Rather than aim for specific dosages, I recommend you start slow and listen to your body as it well tell you how much it requires. Haidut provides these studies to confirm Ray's theories about how the body works. What you are doing sounds very dangerous and unnecessary.

My experience of taking 1.8 g in an 8-hour period was less than ideal. I was fine the whole time, although I was very energized and wired, but when I went to take a nap, I took 4 mg cyproheptadine, and woke up with chest pain and a heart rate of 110-125. It bumped up metabolism too much, so I'm going to ease into this, and maybe drop or discontinue thyroid until I reach a higher level of tolerance.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

post 112015

post 111982

post 111695 I can already tolerate 1 g of caffeine in one sitting, so I will increase by 600 mg each week until I reach 2400 mg in a single dose; I will then take this 3 times per day.

7.2g caffeine/day looks potentially quite dangerous to me.
This is the reason there have been restrictions on pure caffeine powder lately - quantities like this sometimes kill.
I wish people wouldn't risk their lives so readily. I don't want people to die. And I'd like to be able to buy pure caffeine powder.
Even if it turns out OK for you (and there's a chance it might), I hope others don't copy this.

Agreed. When Haidut posts these types of studies, he is not necessarily suggesting that you should go try this. If you want to reduce/block estrogen, there are many other ways that are also safer. In my experience, I only needed about 700 mg caffeine spread throughout the day to fix my liver issues. Once I started using thyroid and my liver became more efficient, I only needed about 300-400 mg spread throughout the day. Rather than aim for specific dosages, I recommend you start slow and listen to your body as it well tell you how much it requires. Haidut provides these studies to confirm Ray's theories about how the body works. What you are doing sounds very dangerous and unnecessary.

My experience of taking 1.8 g in an 8-hour period was less than ideal. I was fine the whole time, although I was very energized and wired, but when I went to take a nap, I took 4 mg cyproheptadine, and woke up with chest pain and a heart rate of 110-125. It bumped up metabolism too much, so I'm going to ease into this, and maybe drop or discontinue thyroid until I reach a higher level of tolerance.

When I was a teenager I once drunk about 25 teaspoons of instant coffee in an evening. In retrospect I should have known I was going to have a bad time. lol.

 

[DaveFoster]

[
When I was a teenager I once drunk about 25 teaspoons of instant coffee in an evening. In retrospect I should have known I was going to have a bad time. lol.

"This sounds like a good idea."

I'm doing well on 2.4 grams per day. I'll bump this up to 3 grams in a week.

UPDATE: Up to 3.6 grams. Still not dead yet.

 

[ecstatichamster]

how's it going now Dave?

 

[sladerunner69]

post 78446 I'm surprised some of the people on this forum have such a low caffeine intake. A grande coffee from Starbucks has 330mg of caffeine and a venti has 415mg of caffeine. A lot of people get 2 or 3 of these a day, upwards of 1,000mg of caffeine. In Canada a lot of people drink Tim Hortons coffee and a large has 270mg of caffeine. This means that a grande coffee is the equivalent of "3 cups" of coffee. Someone may have 2 grande coffees a day and think that they only have "2 coffees" a day, but they actually have more like 6 coffees a day.

Maybe people are getting more caffeine than they realize? or maybe we drink more coffee in Canada...

Starbucks doesn't care, it goes right through me.

 

[DaveFoster]

how's it going now Dave?

I'm down to 200 mg/day. I feel alright.

 

[jyb]

I would guess people get 250 to 500mg coffee a day (500mg is 2 medium Americanos), not 1 g which is more like 3 large Americanos.

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

So, If the liver isn´t capable of storing enough glycogen for whatever reason, can caffeine over time restore that ability?
I came off a low carb diet combined with intermittent fasting that i did for about 3 years...I suspect that i tend to overproduce Serotonin as some antiserotonin substances (caffeine, aspirin, BCAA, Theanine) help with my sympthoms (hypoglycemia, fatigue, inflamation, Depression with ocassional Mania). And i think that maybe the root cause of all these is that i am not storing very much glycogen, altought my thyroid (T3, T4, TSH) where normal, with TSH very close to 1.0...A Doctor specialized in Chinese Medicine told me that i have "Autonomic Nervous system Dysregulation" but he doesn't think tthe low carb diet was the culprit, instead he mentioned an afterbirth trauma and/or some mechanical trauma as probable causes of the dysregulation...Any Insights?

As far as I know caffeine only causes the stress response in people with poor glycogen stores. So, taking caffeine with something like pure fructose or a larger dose of sucrose either greatly diminishes the stress response or stops it completely. It all comes down to liver function really, since liver function determines how well/efficiently carbs get turned into glycogen. Since fructose forces even a poor functioning liver to produce and store glycogen I'd expect taking even a large dose of caffeine 400mg+ combined with 20g-30g pure fructose to have minimal stress effects. For those who do not have access to pure fructose I guess two glasses of apple juice should suffice since apple juice is about 70% fructose.
Since caffeine improves liver function, with time a person should be able to ingest more caffeine and less carbs until eventually glycogen stores are so well rpelenishable by th eliver that you could take caffeine on "empty stomach" and still experience no ill effect since you'd have plenty of glycogen to run on.
But to answer your question - I don't know of anything in caffeine that in and of itself would cause a stress response. It's the insufficient "fuel" that causes it. Also, caffeine is dopaminergic and some other dopaminergic drugs have similar effects due to increased metabolism.

 

[haidut]

So, If the liver isn´t capable of storing enough glycogen for whatever reason, can caffeine over time restore that ability?
I came off a low carb diet combined with intermittent fasting that i did for about 3 years...I suspect that i tend to overproduce Serotonin as some antiserotonin substances (caffeine, aspirin, BCAA, Theanine) help with my sympthoms (hypoglycemia, fatigue, inflamation, Depression with ocassional Mania). And i think that maybe the root cause of all these is that i am not storing very much glycogen, altought my thyroid (T3, T4, TSH) where normal, with TSH very close to 1.0...A Doctor specialized in Chinese Medicine told me that i have "Autonomic Nervous system Dysregulation" but he doesn't think tthe low carb diet was the culprit, instead he mentioned an afterbirth trauma and/or some mechanical trauma as probable causes of the dysregulation...Any Insights?

Yes, and if you search the forum for "caffeine liver" you will find a lot of posts on that topic.

 

[Sativa]

If someone knows of a way to increase plasma concentrations of caffeine by ingesting it together with something else please let me know. It would make for a very interesting experiment.

You would combine the caffeine with theanine, which itself has pro-BDNF/GDNF properties...

I found this quoted in several research papers throughout the web:
"If about eight times as much theanine than caffeine is given (on a per milligram basis), the effect of caffeine is completely blunted"

After some research I see that theanine is an AMPA antagonist, Kainate antagonist, a GABA-A agonist, and a Group One Metabotropic Glutamate Receptor antagonist. The Group One MGluR's boost the activity of NMDA receptors, so by blocking those receptors theanine is blocking NMDA.
This means theanine is a nootropic. AMPA increases BDNF, and AMPA positive allosteric modulation is the mechanism of piracetam. This means theanine would upregulate AMPA, kainate, and Group One MGluR's.

Theanine upregulates BDNF. I also found a paper saying that it also upregulates GDNF (glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor). GDNF supports the survival of dopaminergic and motorneurons - which is almost definitely a good thing.

Theanine gives the same effect as phenibut, but instead of through agonism it's through antagonism so it can be taken every day without tolerance.
Theanine blocks mGlu1, which is coupled with GABA-B. So by antagonizing and upregulating mGlu1, it upregulates GABA-B.
...
Crosstalk between GABAB and mGlu1a receptors reveals new insight into GPCR signal integration
The GABA-B upregulation happens after theanine wears off.

 

[Antonello]

@haidut It's caffeine molecule itself antiestrogenic or coffee with the full profile of chemical it contains?

 

[Mateo Wiechers]

I think is specifically the Caffeine in Coffe the main antiestrogenic component...If you think in terms of cellular energy, caffeine raises cAMP which raises ATP production and that in itself keeps Estrogen out of the cell, regardless of the "receptor".

 

[JoddyLee]

Coffee is quite a tricherose thing. I never had thought until I got problems with heart and teeth. But ever after I've found a lot of... things about coffee. I still want to like it, but knowing all that I just can't. Strange feeling.

 

[Hgreen56]

study's show caffeine increase estrogen with 70%
- Early follicular phase hormone levels in relation to patterns of alcohol, tobacco, and coffee use - PubMed
- NIH Study shows caffeine consumption linked to estrogen changes

 

[jb116]

study's show caffeine increase estrogen with 70%
- Early follicular phase hormone levels in relation to patterns of alcohol, tobacco, and coffee use - PubMed
- NIH Study shows caffeine consumption linked to estrogen changes

Junk.
They don't really elucidate on blood levels or tissue. 99.99% it's referring to blood anyway which is not a good way to measure it.
They also don't talk about diet. Depending on food intake, calories, carbohydrate amount alters some effects of caffeine. As Peat as stated, can be used properly like a food or improperly like a drug. I wouldn't put it past the hypo-caloric, over-exercising culture to totally ignore this point with all the "skip breakfast, get my strong cup(s) of black coffee" sentiment.

 

[Happycat]

study's show caffeine increase estrogen with 70%
- Early follicular phase hormone levels in relation to patterns of alcohol, tobacco, and coffee use - PubMed
- NIH Study shows caffeine consumption linked to estrogen changes

Maybe that's why so many women report improvement in breast pain when they give up caffeine.

 

[Broken man]

Maybe that's why so many women report improvement in breast pain when they give up caffeine.

Caffeine is increasing detox of bad things, could be becuase of this....