Caffeine irratible, trouble sleeping?

Bladezz

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Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
19
Hi recently getting into ray peat,
again. looking to up my caffeine intake but I realized it's quite the up and down I'm getting quite irritable hard to sleep. will this go away with time I'm eating quite a bit and making sure I take sugar and lots of calories with it.

anyone was similar experiences or that has introduced caffeine and had to go through a sort of introduction period please post
 

mostlylurking

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Joined
May 13, 2015
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3,078
Location
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Hi recently getting into ray peat,
again. looking to up my caffeine intake but I realized it's quite the up and down I'm getting quite irritable hard to sleep. will this go away with time I'm eating quite a bit and making sure I take sugar and lots of calories with it.

anyone was similar experiences or that has introduced caffeine and had to go through a sort of introduction period please post
Are you putting some sugar in that coffee? Some cream? Milk? Caffeine lowers blood sugar. Low blood sugar causes irritability, insomnia, and worse. Caffeine also lowers thiamine. Thiamine deficiency interferes with oxidative metabolism. Stick with maybe 1 or 2 cups of coffee a day (with 1 tablespoon of sugar, or have it with a meal), never after 3:00pm. See if that makes a difference. Do some reading on hypoglycemia and caffeine.
links:
 
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Bladezz

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
19
Are you putting some sugar in that coffee? Some cream? Milk? Caffeine lowers blood sugar. Low blood sugar causes irritability, insomnia, and worse. Caffeine also lowers thiamine. Thiamine deficiency interferes with oxidative metabolism. Stick with maybe 1 or 2 cups of coffee a day (with 1 tablespoon of sugar, or have it with a meal), never after 3:00pm. See if that makes a difference. Do some reading on hypoglycemia and caffeine.
links:
The milk seemed to help. I just took it with sugar before. I slept better last night even having coffee before sleep

Though I would prefer more hours maybe my liver isn't up too health yet?
 

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johnysummer

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Nov 26, 2020
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Hi recently getting into ray peat,
again. looking to up my caffeine intake but I realized it's quite the up and down I'm getting quite irritable hard to sleep. will this go away with time I'm eating quite a bit and making sure I take sugar and lots of calories with it.

anyone was similar experiences or that has introduced caffeine and had to go through a sort of introduction period please post

I was thinking of making a similar post to this. For me if I drink more than 2 cups of coffee in day sleep is not an option in that day XD. Although this happened with even less coffee a while ago and the things I did to overcome that is 1) more calories, 2)more sugar in coffee. Coffee raises metabolism thats why you need to support it with extra calories in order to avoid a crash later after drinking it. Also to avoid an adrenaline/cortisol response you need to drink it with a meal.

Are you putting some sugar in that coffee? Some cream? Milk? Caffeine lowers blood sugar. Low blood sugar causes irritability, insomnia, and worse. Caffeine also lowers thiamine. Thiamine deficiency interferes with oxidative metabolism. Stick with maybe 1 or 2 cups of coffee a day (with 1 tablespoon of sugar, or have it with a meal), never after 3:00pm. See if that makes a difference. Do some reading on hypoglycemia and caffeine.
links:

Very good information! Thanks a lot! Do you know of any way to determine if caffeine causes a thiamine problem ? Like the ridged nails, I read thats a thiamine deficiency sign if thats actually true.
 

mostlylurking

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Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
3,078
Location
Texas
I was thinking of making a similar post to this. For me if I drink more than 2 cups of coffee in day sleep is not an option in that day XD. Although this happened with even less coffee a while ago and the things I did to overcome that is 1) more calories, 2)more sugar in coffee. Coffee raises metabolism thats why you need to support it with extra calories in order to avoid a crash later after drinking it. Also to avoid an adrenaline/cortisol response you need to drink it with a meal.



Very good information! Thanks a lot! Do you know of any way to determine if caffeine causes a thiamine problem ? Like the ridged nails, I read thats a thiamine deficiency sign if thats actually true.
Yes, caffeine can cause a thiamine deficiency. So can eating refined sugar.
here's a video about thiamine:


This response does NOT mean that I am anti-coffee and anti-sugar. It means that these things can cause thiamine problems and if you are going to do these things you need to take your thiamine stores into consideration. Ray Peat has said that supplementing with thiamine should be considered if consuming refined sugar. He has also said that taking, say, 90-100mg should be safe.

Be sure to educate yourself about it and to take magnesium with it. Orange juice is also helpful because of the potassium. Orange juice is great stuff!
 

johnysummer

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Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
133
Yes, caffeine can cause a thiamine deficiency. So can eating refined sugar.
here's a video about thiamine:


This response does NOT mean that I am anti-coffee and anti-sugar. It means that these things can cause thiamine problems and if you are going to do these things you need to take your thiamine stores into consideration. Ray Peat has said that supplementing with thiamine should be considered if consuming refined sugar. He has also said that taking, say, 90-100mg should be safe.

Be sure to educate yourself about it and to take magnesium with it. Orange juice is also helpful because of the potassium. Orange juice is great stuff!


Thanks a lot! I didnt know that coffee and refined sugar deplete thiamine and I know its super important for metabolism. I will surely educate myself on thiamine. These stuff I had no idea about them. I put sugar in my coffee, milk, OJ and drink 2-3 cups coffee per day. Cronometer says I am consuming 2-3mg of thiamine daily by food and I dont supplement any, but I supplement magnesium. I also have vertically ridged finger nails. Do you think I should consider thiamine supplement ?
 

mostlylurking

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Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
3,078
Location
Texas
The milk seemed to help. I just took it with sugar before. I slept better last night even having coffee before sleep

Though I would prefer more hours maybe my liver isn't up too health yet?
Did you load up on sugar (orange juice, haagen dazs vanilla) before bed? If you wake up, have a glass of orange juice or some sugared milk; you will go back to sleep easily. It's the low blood sugar that wakes you up.

Your liver's ability to store sugar might not be as great as it could be. Be nice to your liver. It needs 100grams of protein each day to do its job. If you are loaded up on toxins, your liver may be expending its energy dealing with those.
 
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Bladezz

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Jan 16, 2021
Messages
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Did you load up on sugar (orange juice, haagen dazs vanilla) before bed? If you wake up, have a glass of orange juice or some sugared milk; you will go back to sleep easily. It's the low blood sugar that wakes you up.

Your liver's ability to store sugar might not be as great as it could be. Be nice to your liver. It needs 100grams of protein each day to do its job. If you are loaded up on toxins, your liver may be expending its energy dealing with those.
I don't think I get enough protein though I never counted. I might try to increase my milk intake
 

Maljam

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Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
715
I was thinking of making a similar post to this. For me if I drink more than 2 cups of coffee in day sleep is not an option in that day XD. Although this happened with even less coffee a while ago and the things I did to overcome that is 1) more calories, 2)more sugar in coffee. Coffee raises metabolism thats why you need to support it with extra calories in order to avoid a crash later after drinking it. Also to avoid an adrenaline/cortisol response you need to drink it with a meal.



Very good information! Thanks a lot! Do you know of any way to determine if caffeine causes a thiamine problem ? Like the ridged nails, I read thats a thiamine deficiency sign if thats actually true.

Adding fat to the coffee instead of sugar (or as well as) can make all the difference. The fat allows the caffeine to be absorbed slower, rather than all at once and feeling the negative effects. Peat has spoken before about people that struggle to tolerate coffee drinking it alongside a meal to achieve the same thing.
 

Maljam

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
715
Hi recently getting into ray peat,
again. looking to up my caffeine intake but I realized it's quite the up and down I'm getting quite irritable hard to sleep. will this go away with time I'm eating quite a bit and making sure I take sugar and lots of calories with it.

anyone was similar experiences or that has introduced caffeine and had to go through a sort of introduction period please post
I would guess your issues come from doing too much caffeine too soon, drinking it away from meals, or before your first meal, or not enough fat to slow the absorption. Also some people just don't do well with coffee for whatever reason.
 
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Bladezz

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Jan 16, 2021
Messages
19
I would guess your issues come from doing too much caffeine too soon, drinking it away from meals, or before your first meal, or not enough fat to slow the absorption. Also some people just don't do well with coffee for whatever reason.
I'm going to try cream with it and using it with meals. I'll see if that helps
 

mostlylurking

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Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
3,078
Location
Texas
Thanks a lot! I didnt know that coffee and refined sugar deplete thiamine and I know its super important for metabolism. I will surely educate myself on thiamine. These stuff I had no idea about them. I put sugar in my coffee, milk, OJ and drink 2-3 cups coffee per day. Cronometer says I am consuming 2-3mg of thiamine daily by food and I dont supplement any, but I supplement magnesium. I also have vertically ridged finger nails. Do you think I should consider thiamine supplement ?
Sure you could/should consider thiamine supplementation. But educate yourself about it. Thiamine depletes magnesium and also potassium; these need to also be supplemented. Orange juice has a lot of potassium, so that's what I use.

I figured out that my thiamine deficiency/blockage (brought on by Bactrim antibiotic) was causing my troubles a couple of months ago when I tested myself by taking about 300mg of thiamine. Within about 45 minutes, my body temperature went from 98 degrees to 99 degrees. This is a very big deal as 98 degrees points to poor mitochondrial function, which has normalized by supplementing with thiamine hcl.

I am hypothyroid and take an optimized dose of thyroid medication. My poor mitochondrial function was not caused by hypothyroidism as my T3 tested extremely high while I had the severe hypothyroid symptoms. The thiamine resolved my hypothyroid symptoms by correcting my mitochondrial function.
 

johnysummer

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Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
133
Sure you could/should consider thiamine supplementation. But educate yourself about it. Thiamine depletes magnesium and also potassium; these need to also be supplemented. Orange juice has a lot of potassium, so that's what I use.

I figured out that my thiamine deficiency/blockage (brought on by Bactrim antibiotic) was causing my troubles a couple of months ago when I tested myself by taking about 300mg of thiamine. Within about 45 minutes, my body temperature went from 98 degrees to 99 degrees. This is a very big deal as 98 degrees points to poor mitochondrial function, which has normalized by supplementing with thiamine hcl.

I am hypothyroid and take an optimized dose of thyroid medication. My poor mitochondrial function was not caused by hypothyroidism as my T3 tested extremely high while I had the severe hypothyroid symptoms. The thiamine resolved my hypothyroid symptoms by correcting my mitochondrial function.

This is very helpful. Nice work figuring out your problems to such a deep extent. Despite having high T3, the hypothyroidism symptoms you mentioned were temps/pulse ? Also you took 300mg in a single dosage ? I mean you had to know that this is a kinda fix to your problem cause this is a pretty high dosage.
 

mostlylurking

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Messages
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Location
Texas
This is very helpful. Nice work figuring out your problems to such a deep extent. Despite having high T3, the hypothyroidism symptoms you mentioned were temps/pulse ? Also you took 300mg in a single dosage ? I mean you had to know that this is a kinda fix to your problem cause this is a pretty high dosage.
My temps were low (97 to 98) and my pulse was all over the place, from 80 to 105, no logic to it. My lactic acid/inflammation was extremely high, I had severe brain fog, I could not do anything physical at all. Walking to the kitchen was extremely painful. I was in some serious trouble, caused by the antibiotic, Bactrim. See here: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter

Yes, I took 300 mg of thiamine hcl in a single dose. You could take 200 or 250 if you like to check your response to it. Thiamine hcl is not particularly bio-available compared to TTFD. This is really not that huge a dose. It's not really a dangerous supplement. I worked my way up to 1500mg of thiamine hcl a day (in 3 doses/day) over a 2 week time period. I took that high dose for 2 months. Now I am tapering off. I'm better. I never planned on staying on this high dose unless I had to.

Here's a youtube channel that has a lot of videos about thiamine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ They talk about TTFD thiamine, I tried it but it gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours so I went back to the thiamine hcl. I'm doing well on it.
 

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