Caffeine Increases Pregnenolone & Progesterone In The Brain

[Jsaute21]

@haidut and others what is the maximal dose of caffeine per day one should go? I usually just have macchiato in morning with breakfast and coffee with milk sugar and gelatin after an afternoon snack. Also do you advise cycling off once in a while? I also agree with @haidut that caffeine pills are an excellent substitute. Frankly I feel a cleaner buzz from them even and believe they are a better pre workout option than coffee.

 

[haidut]

@haidut and others what is the maximal dose of caffeine per day one should go? I usually just have macchiato in morning with breakfast and coffee with milk sugar and gelatin after an afternoon snack. Also do you advise cycling off once in a while? I also agree with @haidut that caffeine pills are an excellent substitute. Frankly I feel a cleaner buzz from them even and believe they are a better pre workout option than coffee.

I don't think there is an upper limit but singe doses higher than 400mg are almost always stressful. Ergogenic benefits are the same from 200mg and 400mg per dose. Reversal of liver fibrosis actually was better with dosesof about 200mg - 300mg daily. So, it really depends on your needs but I would not take more than 400mg in a single dose without something else in combination to mitigate the stress reaction. Glycine, theanine, taurine, etc all seem to blunt the stress effect to a degree.

 

[Jsaute21]

I agree that those three sources are optimal for caffeine users. Gelatin is a god send. I do not have an excess estrogen problem. Mine is a bit low, which is a good problem to have so to speak. Tho, if it gets too low that is not a good thing.

 

[Jsaute21]

@haidut and other coffee believers, do you believe in taking a day off from caffeine every once in a while?

 

[Vida]

I get constipated and tend to get more depressed whenever drinking coffe or taking caffeine pills, any thoughts why this is happening? I neved had problem with caffeine in the past, it actually worked great in terms of bowel movement but not anymore

 

[member 2106]

As a follow up on my other posts, caffeine is really shaping up to be another Peatarian panacea. At doses achievable in humans with supplementation, caffeine seems to increase the levels of all important steroids in the brain, and in fact this may be the mechanism behind its stimulant effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837842

"...A single intraperitoneal injection of caffeine induced dose- and time-dependent increases in the concentrations of pregnenolone, progesterone, and 3alpha-hydroxy-5alpha-pregnan-20-one (allopregnanolone) in the cerebral cortex."

The effective HUMAN dosage seems to be in the range of 3.6mg-14.3mg per kg of body weight.

"...The increases were significant at a caffeine dose of 25 mg/kg and greatest (+188, +388, and +71%, respectively) at a dose of 100 mg/kg in rats killed 30 min after caffeine administration."

Finally, the researchers think that raising the levels of these neurosteroids may be behind caffeine's cognitive effects.

"...These results suggest that neuroactive steroids may modulate the stimulant and anxiogenic effects of caffeine."

Boy, am I glad to have my caffeine pills:)

I believe this is the study from Peat's article on caffeine. The study was from 2000. Is anyone aware of any other studies validating this claim? Not to undermine the study, but the more the better. Mainstream consensus (I know) seems to be that caffeine DECREASES prog and preg.

 

[Jsaute21]

@haidut what caffeine pill do you use?

 

[haidut]

@haidut what caffeine pill do you use?

I have used PureBulk and NutraBio in the past.

 

[raypeatclips]

@haidut So does this study mean that caffeine contributes to many of the benefits of pregnenolone offers, for example the study you posted today about pregnenolone protecting against heart disease? Or is increasing pregnenolone in the brain with caffeine, not the same as taking pregnenolone by itself?

 

[haidut]

@haidut So does this study mean that caffeine contributes to many of the benefits of pregnenolone offers, for example the study you posted today about pregnenolone protecting against heart disease? Or is increasing pregnenolone in the brain with caffeine, not the same as taking pregnenolone by itself?

Anything that increases pregnenolone should have similar effects. It does not matter if pregnenolone is elevated with supplementing directly or with something that raises pregnenolone levels.

 

[sladerunner69]

@haidut Could you please expand on erogenic benefits and what that means exactly? Is that related to erogenic/comfortability/efficiency? Also is liver fibrosis similar to fatty liver disease?

 

[haidut]

@haidut Could you please expand on erogenic benefits and what that means exactly? Is that related to erogenic/comfortability/efficiency? Also is liver fibrosis similar to fatty liver disease?

Where did you see me mention "erogenic" benefits of caffeine? Erogenic means related to love. Is that you meant or was it a typo? Fatty liver disease is a precursor to liver fibrosis if left untreated. Another common name for liver fibrosis is cirrhosis.

 

[raypeatclips]

@haidut You used the word "Erogenic" in this post he was talking about.

I don't think there is an upper limit but singe doses higher than 400mg are almost always stressful. Erogenic benefits are the same from 200mg and 400mg per dose. Reversal of liver fibrosis actually was better with dosesof about 200mg - 300mg daily. So, it really depends on your needs but I would not take more than 400mg in a single dose without something else in combination to mitigate the stress reaction. Glycine, theanine, taurine, etc all seem to blunt the stress effect to a degree.

 

[sladerunner69]

Erogenic benefits are the same from 200mg and 400mg per dose. Reversal of liver fibrosis actually was better with dosesof about 200mg - 300mg daily.

I was looking at what you wrote here... maybe you meant "estrogenic benefits"? Hahahaha That's hilarious because caffiene does have a euphoric/love feeling so I thought you meant a study on those kinds of feelings.

Oh I see now, cirrosis and fibrosis of the liver are the same condition. That's great info thanks.

 

[haidut]

@haidut You used the word "Erogenic" in this post he was talking about.

Sorry, my typo then. I meant ergogenic, which means enhancing performance.

 

[haidut]

I was looking at what you wrote here... maybe you meant "estrogenic benefits"? Hahahaha That's hilarious because caffiene does have a euphoric/love feeling so I thought you meant a study on those kinds of feelings.

Oh I see now, cirrosis and fibrosis of the liver are the same condition. That's great info thanks.

Lol, I made a typo. The correct word is ergogenic. But I think erogenic is also a good word. Maybe I will change the title on the Pansterone thread to say it is an erogenic supplement - a potion for love. OK, I am stopping now, I begin to sound cheesy.

 

[Steed]

I have been building up towards tolerating higher doses of caffeine and reached 1000 today (400, 200, 200, 200) and to my surprise I felt heavily sedated. Then I found this old thread. I don’t grasp the MOA here, I wonder if anyone else does? Is it mainly through increased mitochondrial activity to drive the steroid pathway harder? Body temps higher as well but I take some aspirin with every dose. Aspirin can also make me more sedated, but in a different way/feeling, guessing through lowered cortisol.

 

[Frankdee20]

Do caffeine pills inhibit acetycholinesterase the way too much coffee does ?

 

[NewACC]

As a follow up on my other posts, caffeine is really shaping up to be another Peatarian panacea. At doses achievable in humans with supplementation, caffeine seems to increase the levels of all important steroids in the brain, and in fact this may be the mechanism behind its stimulant effects.

Caffeine-induced increases in the brain and plasma concentrations of neuroactive steroids in the rat - PubMed

"...A single intraperitoneal injection of caffeine induced dose- and time-dependent increases in the concentrations of pregnenolone, progesterone, and 3alpha-hydroxy-5alpha-pregnan-20-one (allopregnanolone) in the cerebral cortex."

The effective HUMAN dosage seems to be in the range of 3.6mg-14.3mg per kg of body weight.

"...The increases were significant at a caffeine dose of 25 mg/kg and greatest (+188, +388, and +71%, respectively) at a dose of 100 mg/kg in rats killed 30 min after caffeine administration."

Finally, the researchers think that raising the levels of these neurosteroids may be behind caffeine's cognitive effects.

"...These results suggest that neuroactive steroids may modulate the stimulant and anxiogenic effects of caffeine."

Boy, am I glad to have my caffeine pills

@haidut, I think I already wrote here, but Georgy, you made a mistake here. The most effective dose for increasing allopregnanolone was 50mg/kg in mice, i.e. 500-650mg for the average adult. Higher bolus doses increased allopregnanolone much less, most likely due to an excessive increase in progesterone, which suppressed 5-alpha-reduction of progesterone.