Caffeine Can Shorten Life Expectancy - But Alcohol Lengthens

[lvysaur]

Vodka and mixed drinks are the best.

Beer gives me headaches and unfavorable stools the next morning, and this has been even more potent since I stopped drinking beer regularly (used to be twice a week or so). Downing a bottle of hops, live yeast, and yeast estrogens isn't a great idea.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Re ethanol, Woodrow Monte makes a strong case that it protects from methanol. Alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) has a 16x higher affinity for ethanol than methanol. So in the presence of both, it is primarily the ethanol that is converted to acetaldehyde, which is relatively benign. In the presence of methanol only, ADH converts it to formaldehyde, which is highly toxic.

This is why low steady doses of ethanol are protective: they give methanol time to passively leave your body. Ethanol is the specific treatment for methanol poisoning.

Binge drinking is the worst of all worlds: it up-regulates ADH so that ethanol is cleared more quickly, then rapidly converts any methanol to formaldehyde. For men, 1/2 to 1 drink per day is optimal; the reduction in toxicity from methanol is better than the toxicity of the ethanol itself. Women are more sensitive to ethanol toxicity, for them the optimal seems to be about 1/2 drink per day.

I liked his book: While Science Sleeps.

 

[michael94]

Alcohol also decreases bile viscosity. Many cultures like to take shots of strong alcohol before meals, or wine. In eastern europe it's vodka, the japanese like sake, etc. [Ultrasound study of gallbladder motility in healthy subjects. Reproducibility of the method and effect of alcohol]. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Ideonaut]

There is no confusion. The effects are as the original study described them but that in no way justifies the title of the popular press article. Caffeine shortened telomeres and alcohol lengthened them. Peat wrote about how long telomeres are associated with cancer and not with longevity. Estrogen and radiation also elongate telomeres and they certainly do not extend lifespan. Whoever chose to take the telomere effects of caffeine and beer and craft such an idiotic title should not be practicing journalism.
Just my 2c.

Your 2c always shine like gold, Haidut!

 

[pboy]

I question if alcohol itself is actually estrogenic...you have beer and wine (red at least) with yeast, which pretty sure is inherently estrogenic, then the fact is a hypotonic drink (its like taking water nearly...there is some carbs and protein in beer and less in wine but still watery) then its well actually been and wine have some vitamins and minerals but are slightly acidic, not so bad as some things, but yea...it can lower sugar rapidly moreso than might otherwise happen...a distilled, non grain based alcohol, taken with a dense'ish food and having enough nutrients and sugar? might not be that estrogenic although any bacterial waste product might ultimately be slightly, but might not be that noticed compared to even many other commonly consumed things...I know for sure there was a while back id drink like a bottle of sake a day on a pretty good diet...it was like a point post being vegan for a while losing a lot of weight and digestive capability seeminly but like getting back to or trying to with herbs supplements partially (mostly just b12) and like fruit juice and various things, nuts, seed oils...basically got fed up with going to the bathroom 5 times a day and eventually added in dairy but I was living on what I had to to basically survive and not be a slave to the GI system which was at that time some dairy but mostly coffee sugar sake a bit of salt and lot of chocolate bars and maybe some strong teas, and a few powdered herbs or things...was I nutrient deficient? maybe...the thing is or point is I never got drunk on the sake, never felt foolish really, only internally a bit lighter, never estrogenic relatively...compared to people I was around a lot of them ect still had more bright attitude, I think it depends on the person and situation, and sake isn't the worse although theres better alcohols. I don't really crave it now but I cant say I hate on it either just id prefer to be ideal but I can see how its stress or tension relief aspects can have potentially a big value to people at times, though is it an 'escape?' maybe...dunno, I still grew with it, I just also grew into better, but could tempering ones self be a good thing? a personal gauge or what they choose to do I wouldn't tell someone either way...honestly eating meat is probably more estrogenic than drinking alcohol inherently if all other factors are the same. Me as a vegan/vegetarian drinking pretty decent amounts of alcohol throughout the day exhibited no bad signs of what people would say alcohol does, and yet regular people might be 'buzzed' and acting foolish or more harshly on avg American diet on but a few beers. A cloudy or light American GMO wheat with other things in it beer with yeast residue potentially in an aluminum can is probably pretty terrible no doubt, but a more filtered high quality rice or better yet fruit based or sugar based alcohol in glass would be more variable to the persons rest of their life in terms of potential to effect real negatively. I gotta just say I don't wanna say drinking is good caus eim not 100% but I completely understand it and why it would seem such to people at various times and cant say I didn't get benefit from it at parts of life but I guess naturally I grew out of needing or even wanting it once diet was more clean honed and adequate but admittingly that's pretty hard to achieve and is not really a 'normal' diet so to speak

 

[nikolabeacon]

In my experience good quality disitiled strong spirits are pretty nice and usefull( vodka, rakija or white wine sometimes)....

Alcohol relaxes me and makes me to think much simpler and easier without tense feeling... compared to bingeing on coffee which gives you euphorical feeling or fast empty drive and stimulus and than crashing experience after that ...

 

[haidut]

I question if alcohol itself is actually estrogenic...you have beer and wine (red at least) with yeast, which pretty sure is inherently estrogenic, then the fact is a hypotonic drink (its like taking water nearly...there is some carbs and protein in beer and less in wine but still watery) then its well actually been and wine have some vitamins and minerals but are slightly acidic, not so bad as some things, but yea...it can lower sugar rapidly moreso than might otherwise happen...a distilled, non grain based alcohol, taken with a dense'ish food and having enough nutrients and sugar? might not be that estrogenic although any bacterial waste product might ultimately be slightly, but might not be that noticed compared to even many other commonly consumed things...I know for sure there was a while back id drink like a bottle of sake a day on a pretty good diet...it was like a point post being vegan for a while losing a lot of weight and digestive capability seeminly but like getting back to or trying to with herbs supplements partially (mostly just b12) and like fruit juice and various things, nuts, seed oils...basically got fed up with going to the bathroom 5 times a day and eventually added in dairy but I was living on what I had to to basically survive and not be a slave to the GI system which was at that time some dairy but mostly coffee sugar sake a bit of salt and lot of chocolate bars and maybe some strong teas, and a few powdered herbs or things...was I nutrient deficient? maybe...the thing is or point is I never got drunk on the sake, never felt foolish really, only internally a bit lighter, never estrogenic relatively...compared to people I was around a lot of them ect still had more bright attitude, I think it depends on the person and situation, and sake isn't the worse although theres better alcohols. I don't really crave it now but I cant say I hate on it either just id prefer to be ideal but I can see how its stress or tension relief aspects can have potentially a big value to people at times, though is it an 'escape?' maybe...dunno, I still grew with it, I just also grew into better, but could tempering ones self be a good thing? a personal gauge or what they choose to do I wouldn't tell someone either way...honestly eating meat is probably more estrogenic than drinking alcohol inherently if all other factors are the same. Me as a vegan/vegetarian drinking pretty decent amounts of alcohol throughout the day exhibited no bad signs of what people would say alcohol does, and yet regular people might be 'buzzed' and acting foolish or more harshly on avg American diet on but a few beers. A cloudy or light American GMO wheat with other things in it beer with yeast residue potentially in an aluminum can is probably pretty terrible no doubt, but a more filtered high quality rice or better yet fruit based or sugar based alcohol in glass would be more variable to the persons rest of their life in terms of potential to effect real negatively. I gotta just say I don't wanna say drinking is good caus eim not 100% but I completely understand it and why it would seem such to people at various times and cant say I didn't get benefit from it at parts of life but I guess naturally I grew out of needing or even wanting it once diet was more clean honed and adequate but admittingly that's pretty hard to achieve and is not really a 'normal' diet so to speak

Clear alcohol is not inherently estrogenic, unlike beer and wine (resveratrol) which are. However, the stronger the alcohol the more it burdens the liver which prevents estrogen detox. All alcoholics are known to have hypogonadism combined with estrogen excess and this is not a coincidence. In addition, alcohol increases fatty acid oxidation and depletes a number of important vitamins like B1, B2, B3 which are also needed for estrogen excretion and proper metabolism. In addition, all alcohol acts BOTH as agonist on TLR4 (endotoxin) and 5-HT3. So, ingesting it chronically and in higher doses can really mess up your health. Endotoxin and serotonin are perhaps the main cause behind most degenerative diseases, second only to PUFA, but they act together and depend on each other for causing the negative effects.

 

[lollipop]

Endotoxin and serotonin are perhaps the main cause behind most degenerative diseases, second only to PUFA, but they act together and depend on each other for causing the negative effects.

This is telling @haidut and pulls together so much of the picture that has been forming from my research into these matters. Again appreciating your contribution...

 

[haidut]

This is telling @haidut and pulls together so much of the picture that has been forming from my research into these matters. Again appreciating your contribution...

Have you seen these threads?
Endotoxin And Iron Finally Recognized As Potential Causes Of Many Diseases
Dementia Breakthrough - Alzheimer Disease Linked To Endotoxin And Iron

 

[lollipop]

Have you seen these threads?
Endotoxin And Iron Finally Recognized As Potential Causes Of Many Diseases
Dementia Breakthrough - Alzheimer Disease Linked To Endotoxin And Iron

No. Headed that way thank you!

 

[Tim Lundeen]

There also appears to be a connection between endotoxin leak and estrogen; higher endotoxin causes higher estrogen, and higher estrogen causes more endotoxin leak.

 

[Peater Piper]

Coffee consumption is positively associated with longer telomeres in humans:
Coffee Consumption Is Positively Associated with Longer Leukocyte Telomere Length in the Nurses' Health Study. - PubMed - NCBI

Or maybe not?:
Coffee Lengthens, While Caffeine Shortens Your Telomeres: An Essential Paradox? The Latest Evidence Reviewed - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

 

[michael94]

Re ethanol, Woodrow Monte makes a strong case that it protects from methanol. Alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) has a 16x higher affinity for ethanol than methanol. So in the presence of both, it is primarily the ethanol that is converted to acetaldehyde, which is relatively benign. In the presence of methanol only, ADH converts it to formaldehyde, which is highly toxic.

This is why low steady doses of ethanol are protective: they give methanol time to passively leave your body. Ethanol is the specific treatment for methanol poisoning.

Binge drinking is the worst of all worlds: it up-regulates ADH so that ethanol is cleared more quickly, then rapidly converts any methanol to formaldehyde. For men, 1/2 to 1 drink per day is optimal; the reduction in toxicity from methanol is better than the toxicity of the ethanol itself. Women are more sensitive to ethanol toxicity, for them the optimal seems to be about 1/2 drink per day.

I liked his book: While Science Sleeps.

For those of us who have not read the book, where would the methanol be coming from in the first place ( assuming one wasn't regularly consuming aspartame ) ?

edit: Found this: http://thetruthaboutstuff.com/published/Monte Diet.pdf

 

[michael94]

Binge drinking is the worst of all worlds: it up-regulates ADH so that ethanol is cleared more quickly, then rapidly converts any methanol to formaldehyde. For men, 1/2 to 1 drink per day is optimal; the reduction in toxicity from methanol is better than the toxicity of the ethanol itself. Women are more sensitive to ethanol toxicity, for them the optimal seems to be about 1/2 drink per day..

Just a passing thought but this may have some relation to why one's immune system will allow certain fungi like candida to overgrow. Candida creates ethanol doesn't it? I noticed way back when that candida diets would say to avoid ALL alcohol like the plague, which might actually be bad advice.

 

[Peater Piper]

Gut flora may also produce methanol.

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/95/2/603

The human gut microbiota is a putative methanol source (step 8) and takes part in the generation of human endogenous ethanol (step 9). We suggest that endogenous and dietary methanol may be involved in the regulation of genes involved in the metabolic clearance of methanol (step 10). The first stage of the oxidative metabolism of methanol is executed by the catalase-H2O2system (step 12), cytochrome P450 (CYP2E1)-mediated oxidation (step 13) and, mainly, the alcohol dehydrogenase I (ADH1) class of enzymes (step 14). Although ADH1 converts methanol into toxic formaldehyde, physiological ethanol in the bloodstream substantively prevents all formaldehyde production from endogenous and dietary methanol in humans (step 15).

In mammals, the intestinal flora is the most relevant candidate for the production of methanol followed by its oxidation to formaldehyde, formic acid, and carbon dioxide. To prove this, it was recently tested whether the intestinal microbes in rats generate methanol (246). Removal of the bowel in rats resulted in a lessened methanol increase in the blood following the administration of 4-methylpyrazole into the liver compared with the control group (246). Currently, a large number of bacteria and several types of yeast are known to be capable of growing on medium wherein methanol is the sole carbon source