Buying A Heatlamp, Any Advice Appreciated

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by north, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. north

    north Member

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    I am located in EU and having somewhat difficulties finding a good red light source for a reasonable price. Im leaning towards a heatlamp, which has pretty much IR light, but i think at least a decent red spectrum.

    I just found this one. If someone is more knowledgable or have tried something similar, what are your thoughts?

    http://www.infraphil.info/Philips_Infraphil-PAR38E.pdf

    Also, am i correct to read the charts as if they start from 500? Since the charts prints out 1000, 1500, 2000, etc, and the first step is as big as the following ones. (Sorry for my bad explanation)

    "The Philips infrared heating lamps have a wavelength spectrum with a pronounced peak at approximately 1000 nm in the deep-penetrating IR-A range. This radiation characteristic makes them ideal radiant heat sources for treating deeper-seated muscular ailments and sports injuries."
     
  2. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I used one like that before and felt like it worked fine. The second purchase I made was the brooding lights from the farm supply store which are also infrared heat lamps but they have clear glass instead of the red tint. I'm about to order some incandescent for the summer because the infrared do get pretty warm. I do think I like the clear glass bulbs a little better than the red tinted ones but that is just my personal preference. I'm sure the red tint has benefits too.
     
  3. OP
    north

    north Member

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    Thanks :)
     
  4. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Infra-Red lamps provides mostly heat and heat is beneficial.
    But purpose of red light therapy is to get orange, red and some
    infra-red frequencies. These are between 590-900 nm.
    RP does not recommend red tinted bulb because those lack
    orange light. Brooding light or regular incandescent are suitable
    for light therapy. Red LED is also useful. This infra-red lamp does not give you
    orange and there is only little bit of red between 600-900.
     
  5. OP
    north

    north Member

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    Thanks. Yeah, im aware that its a bit off spectrum, but its very hard to find good lamps in EU. And i cant really find any good affordable LED alternative either. Might order from taiwan when i get more money. What is the difference between brooding light and a white heat-lamp though, i thought thats basically the same?
    I can find a similar to this infra-red but with a white bulb.
     
  6. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    The scientist on Ray's links page recommended the brooding lights to me. She lives in Denmark. I think she knows her stuff. I personally don't know the difference but mine are called infrared but the light they put out is yellowish and the glass is clear. I think anywhere that has farms should carry them.
     
  7. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    This is what RP recommends for heat lamp/brooding lamp
    http://www.amazon.com/Bulbrite-250BR40H ... B003P1MQDK
    It is a regular incandescent bulb made for 130 volt but will give more red and infra red
    light when used in 120 volt line. Philips infra-red bulbs have same mechanism
    125-130 volt for 120 and 230 volt for 220 volt.The wavelength range shown in philips infra-red
    looks similar to that of regular incandescent, but i am not sure about exact scale.
    This bulb has 5000 hours life and philips infra-red has 300 hours life.
    I have used both regular incandescent (light therapy) and philips infra-red (for pain relief) ,
    but not brooding lamps. Philips probably have something similar to bulbrite one.
     
  8. OP
    north

    north Member

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    Thing is EU has pretty much banned regular oldschool incandescent lamps. They are all halogen etc now.
    The one you linked on amazon is 130V, i cant find a lot for 230V thats the problem.
    This one is similar to philips one, 250W, E27. 230V, but white glas. (although not clear white :( )
    A somewhat good choice?
    http://www.ljusbutiken.nu/produkt.php?art=262712525011
     
  9. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    This link does not show color temperature.
    Incandescent and some Clear Heat lamps have 2700 kelvin temperature.
    I use that as a reference. Lower the color temperature higher the ratio of
    red color to blue color. I have used warm white incandescent with 2800 K.
    These bulbs dont show how long these will last.
    There are many LED light at that site with 2800 K .You can check out those
    LED bulbs. I believe RP is ok with halogen lamp too, though there is higher risk
    of electrical malfunction/fire with halogen bulbs.
     
  10. OP
    north

    north Member

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    I thought LEDs wasnt that good. Arent they too weak? The ones on that site are like up to 24W.
    That page also has one called siccatherm, http://www.osram.com/media/resource/hir ... red-en.pdf
    In the bottom of that pdf is a spectrum. The frosted/clear versions seems to have some red light spectrum. The red version has a different spectrum as you said. Maybe a clear/frosted siccatherm lamp would be better then.
    It also has a 5000h lifetime.
    Maybe a setup with one siccatherm and a few other lamps later on would be pretty good.
     
  11. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    LED has much higher luminosity per watt than incandescent bulb, 14 vs 80.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp
    I did not dig much into it. I believe LED wattage equivalent
    to 250 watt incandescent is much lower. That clear siccatherm looks pretty good.
    You have to make sure you have heat resistant equipments with these kind of bulbs.
    Since excess heat can be an issue, experimenting with few 24 watt low kelvin
    (2800 or below ) is a good idea. I am not sure ,i believe they use 3 different wavelength
    of diode to create those white LED bulbs. As long as amount of red light is higher than blue
    there should be beneficial result.
     
  12. Dayman

    Dayman Member

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  13. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @Peateat
    I think that bulb is suitable for light therapy. The color temperature is 2700 K,
    which is same as clear incandescent. This shows that the ratio of red to
    blue is good. RP recommends american heat lamps with 130 volt running in 120 volt line.
    I am not sure, but i think this is equivalent to 240 volt bulb running in 220 line.
    You have to be careful with equipments and setting, as these hot bulbs can be fire hazard.
    RP recommends heat lamp for winter, because it provides both heat and red light.
    In warm weather regular incandescent bulb is good enough.
    Red and orange lights are the main focus of light therapy.
     
  14. OP
    north

    north Member

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    Just found this as well. 2700K, 10000 lumen, several thousands hours life.
    It's a low energy lamp sold for plants but seems to match criteria to my knowledge.

    http://www.swedish-growsystems.se/se/ar ... k-250w.php

    Would that work as a good complement to the heat lamp?
     
  15. OP
    north

    north Member

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    I'm checking stores now and no one seems to have holders for 250w heatlamps.
    I'm looking at a low energy light, it says 2500K, 1400 lm, and 23w=100w (how much it represents in normal bulbs wattage).

    Does that even work? I've read peat doesn't like energy saver bulbs but maybe it's the easiest option at the moment.

    If I get 4 of these that would be 400w of 2500K light. 5600 lumen.
    The plant one was 10000 lm but this is a lot easier to get and setup.

    Any input? :p
     
  16. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Here is a RP quote on Fluorescent
    RP is fine with LED light, which are also energy saving. He is against those
    low energy compact fluorescent bulbs.If those 2500K bulbs are LED
    then it should be ok. Can you find red LED bulbs there?
    Here is a spectral analysis of 2500K LED light.
    [​IMG]

    Spectrographic analysis of the LEDs (2500K) in the Zylight Z90 Photo/Video Light
     
  17. OP
    north

    north Member

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    The LED bulbs here are very weak. So i started looking around at DIY options with power LEDs.
    When i looked at bulbs and "warm white" color LEDs, i didnt see that type of spectrum. Even if they are 2700K, the light spectrum are almost no red. Like this one https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/asse ... ng_tds.pdf page 10.

    So in the case of LED, i guess specific wavelength LEDs are the option.
    But then you would not really get a continuos spectrum, but instead peaks at specific wavelengths.
    I guess that could be useful.
    I found some info saying 630-670nm stimulate cytchrome c.

    I did find some very powerful LEDs on eboy tho, with specific red spectrum nm. This one is in the 660nm which seems to be a good bet. Very pricey though.

    I Specification for 100W LED:
    Lens Color: Water Clear
    Emitted Color: Red
    Wavelength: 660nm
    Intensity Luminous (Iv): 1500LM
    DC Forward Voltage (VF): DC 20V ~ 26V
    DC Forward Current (IF): 3.2A ~ 3.8A
    Viewing Angle: 110 Degrees
     
  18. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Additional info on UV radiation from compact fluorescent lamps

    That samsumg LED has a much better distribution than 2500K graph i posted earlier.
    There is a spike around 450 nm and from 500 nm to 750 nm the curve is quite smooth
    and covers most of the area. I think RP's main concern with fluorescent is excess
    UV. The ebay one looks quite good. Most benefits comes from 600-700 nm.
    There are several studies using 630,660 and 670 nm. Advantage of that samsung LED bulb is that
    you can use that as regular lighting and the red one is solely for light therapy.
    You can choose to have both.
     
  19. OP
    north

    north Member

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    After spending some more google-hours...
    Found this badass plant LED light, http://www.wexthuset.com/vaxtbelysning/ ... 60-watt-p1

    It can be set to use only red spectrum and has a very high effect. Basically all of the wattage can be in the red spectrum. So theoretically it should be more power in the desired range campared to a 250w heat lamp right?

    I was wondering tho, could that be bad for the eyes?
    As looking into a lazer is bad for the eyes.
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    That is an interesting device. Looking at non-English manual i can only
    understand they have red lights between 530-570 nm and blue light
    between 430-470 nm. I do not know about the exact equivalence of
    red light from this 60 watt red LED and 250 incandescent.
    Since LED light has much higher lumen per watt than incandescent
    it is possible you are getting more red light in that 530-570 region
    than from 250 incandescent.
     
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