Buteyko - What's Your CP?

[DaveFoster]

Yes absolutely. Straining too hard for improvement during each session or across sessions can be counterproductive. Due the release of stress hormones and the need for physiological adaptations to occur slowly over time. In this light it also seems to take a similar time to add X% to CP. That is to say 10 to 15 might take a similar time as from 40 to 60, because by then a large number of issues holding back optimum respiration are resolved, so it's easier to progress with breathing exercises and supportive factors e.g. increased cardio.

And yes it reflects the essence of yoga - to still/suspend the breath and therefore still the mind. Buteyko is a yogic practise, especially at higher levels. Pranayama essentially works if it can reduce breathing volume via training co2 tolerance + relaxation. Buteyko just came up with a very specific criteria of respiratory minute volume and CP to reflect that. Likwise, if a certain yoga does not fit buteykos criteria, it won't produce health improvements in the individual, so you have a way of judging efficacy. It's very common for certain yoga classes to teach increased/overbreathing which can be both unsafe and ineffective at low CP, and possibly only useful in very specific situations (let's say something like holotropic breath work for the purpose of therapy) or when in very good health.

Perhaps one of the most interesting things about very high CP I spoke to, is that they often had spontaneous new insights into reality and the self. Or, spiritual "awakenings", without making it sound too cheesy. That is to say, developed equanimity through breathing retraining allowed them to naturally disembed and enter a witnessing state, to objectify and stay equanimous to thoughts and sensations as and when they arise, and therefore experientially understand their nature. And likewise, to use this same clarity to investigate the apparent subject "I" who appears to knows these thoughts or sensations, and previously appeared to be fused to them.

You could say, reduced breathing is like sharpening a knife that allows you to cut through reality. Like slicing a melon and seeing exactly what's inside. As opposed to simply squashing the melon with a very blunt knife.

I also think it has something to with the physiological reversal of the fight or flight mechanism. At lower CPs, the organism feels under threat, stress hormones are high. A strong, painful sense of self is tied to a sense of environment danger and an incentive to survive. Then, at higher CPs, the organism is relaxed, it's safe, and with less sense of danger the boundaries between the apparent separate self and separate world can become more diffuse and even dissolve completely.



That's extremely impressive. Can you talk a bit more about what the key factors for improvement were for you? And what the optimum hormonal state for a super high CP seems to be ?

Johnson

Lowering inflammation does the trick. It's really all maintaining a high rate of energy production, so some combination of aspirin, light, pregnenolone, progesterone, and B-vitamins (particularly niacinamide) can lower the stress hormones, whereas thyroid or caffeine can further promote sugar oxidation. If you're trying to just raise your CP, then progesterone and niacinamide with sugar should be effective, along with recycling the same air through a bag or other device.

Raising your CO2 production also allows you to retain it in your tissues, which "cements" a higher energy state.

 

[yerrag]

I attended a Buteyko course 5 years ago. I was hypertensive, and still is. I thought that improving my CP would lower my blood pressure. It got worse.

It comes down to context. I didn't try to increase my CP anymore. Now, my CP stands at around 45-55.

Turns out my body was adapting to a new state of higher CO2 in my blood. The new state was helping remove a state of hypoxia in my tissues. But my body wanted more uric acid to protect my kidneys, which has lead toxicity. And the body was constricting blood vessels, to create hypoxic conditions that encourage uric acid production. With higher CO2, and better oxygenation, the body had to constrict my blood vessels further, leading to higher blood pressure.

I will first deal with detoxifying my body of lead toxicity, and monitor my blood pressure, uric acid levels, and serum CO2 levels. And then when these markers indicate my lead toxicity has been resolved, I can resume with my Buteyko exercises, and to increasing my CP to much higher levels.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Mine was about 15, then after LLLT it went up to about 38. I thought that was pretty good.

 

[yerrag]

Mine was about 15, then after LLLT it went up to about 38. I thought that was pretty good.

On that alone, certainly speaks highly of its effect. It's the production of cytochrome oxidase enzyme kicking in effecting respiratory oxidation in the mitochondria. Awesome!

 

[walker_in_aus]

On that alone, certainly speaks highly of its effect. It's the production of cytochrome oxidase enzyme kicking in effecting respiratory oxidation in the mitochondria. Awesome!

I know I'm spouting the gospel of red light to everyone. Most people are mildly interested but I think I'm too enthusiastic so they turn off a bit. Sore muscles? RED LIGHT hay fever? RED LIGHT diabetes? RED LIGHT.

I wonder if sex workers in Amsterdam are healthier than other night shift workers?

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Mine was about 15, then after LLLT it went up to about 38. I thought that was pretty good.

Wow. Can you describe more about your experience with it;

- where did you use red light?

- what type of light

- session duration, times per week?

- what were your other results e.g. pulse, temps, alleviation of symptoms? :)

Seriously inspired and curious !

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

^Edit. Oops my phone doubled posted

 

[walker_in_aus]

Wow. Can you describe more about your experience with it;

- where did you use red light?

- what type of light

- session duration, times per week?

- what were your other results e.g. pulse, temps, alleviation of symptoms? :)

Seriously inspired and curious !

My functional medicine genius had them as actual lightbeds, called Mitogen. 20 minute session. I had been testing CP the week earlier and it was low (unsurprising many health issues). I had nothing to do in the pod but think and notice my breathing and I watched the little clock on the wall and timed it again. First session, about 10 minutes in, went up to about 38 seconds. !!!

Haven't been taking pulse and temp so don't know effect. I prefer overall symptoms. Other main thing it did was improve my blood glucose management - I suddenly found myself not hungry between breakfast and lunch which hasn't happened in 10 years...

It's pretty magical.

 

[jtoro]

mine is about 35 - 45. It is true that getting past this point to 60 is difficult. It requires hours of breathing exercise every day. To get here, I had to monitor my CP and do breathing exercises and fix issues in my life. I sleep sitting up (in a recliner). I am always doing pauses during my day without really thinking about it. I don't have to tape my mouth at night anymore, but I still carry tape when I go on vacations just in case.

You can't believe the changes that this has made. I threw away 6 medications and have never taken any since. I was on the way to an early grave and I've been extremely healthy.

Could you write about the health challenges you faced before Butyeko? and what has changed since you started it? Thanks

 

[svartberg]

Mine was 11, now 14 after 2 months of exercises

 

[Manwithnoname]

From my understanding Dr. Buteyko thought the control pause was indicative of body oxygen levels. Another parameter with the CP test(at least according to Artour Rachimov) is that breathing should revert back to the same as it was before the test started. Otherwise if you breath more then before you overdid the test and did not do it properly. Ahanu, did you follow that parameter when you did yours?

I have CP above 35 and temps about 37. Started with CP 12 and temps maybe 36. Got CP up 50 but had cold feets and low temps so i knew something isnt right. Found peat and got temps up while maintaining a relatively good CP
so yes you can push the CP by lowering the metabolism but you can also improve CP AND Metabolismus in my experience.

 

[Dezertfox]

mine is about 35 - 45. It is true that getting past this point to 60 is difficult. It requires hours of breathing exercise every day. To get here, I had to monitor my CP and do breathing exercises and fix issues in my life. I sleep sitting up (in a recliner). I am always doing pauses during my day without really thinking about it. I don't have to tape my mouth at night anymore, but I still carry tape when I go on vacations just in case.

You can't believe the changes that this has made. I threw away 6 medications and have never taken any since. I was on the way to an early grave and I've been extremely healthy.

Which device do you guys use to measure CP?

 

[Lizb]

Which device do you guys use to measure CP?

No device required or in fact of any use. It's well described here in this video. Keep practicing every day, more than once, to get it right.

 

[syncronicity]

mine is about 35 - 45. It is true that getting past this point to 60 is difficult. It requires hours of breathing exercise every day. To get here, I had to monitor my CP and do breathing exercises and fix issues in my life. I sleep sitting up (in a recliner). I am always doing pauses during my day without really thinking about it. I don't have to tape my mouth at night anymore, but I still carry tape when I go on vacations just in case.

You can't believe the changes that this has made. I threw away 6 medications and have never taken any since. I was on the way to an early grave and I've been extremely healthy.

Do you sleep sitting up for the theaputic benefit, as in Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT), related to blood and lymph flow, or for other reasons?

 

[Lorof]

Do you sleep sitting up for the theaputic benefit, as in Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT), related to blood and lymph flow, or for other reasons?

I would also kindly ask for you to explain how you sleep in a recliner as I find this intriguing, @ecstatichamster

 

[ecstatichamster]

I sleep in a recliner with blankets, and have for many years. I recline but I'm between sitting up, and laying flat, more towards sitting up. It helps breathing dramatically.

There may be a possibility of inhibiting lymphatic flow in the brain so sometimes I sleep laying flat (with a pillow) just in case that's true.

 

[gettodachopper6]

Buteyko, BF Skinner, and Ray Peat.

LMAO!! This is unbelievably funny!!!

 

[gettodachopper6]

Lowering inflammation does the trick. It's really all maintaining a high rate of energy production, so some combination of aspirin, light, pregnenolone, progesterone, and B-vitamins (particularly niacinamide) can lower the stress hormones, whereas thyroid or caffeine can further promote sugar oxidation. If you're trying to just raise your CP, then progesterone and niacinamide with sugar should be effective, along with recycling the same air through a bag or other device.

Raising your CO2 production also allows you to retain it in your tissues, which "cements" a higher energy state.

What dosage have you found to be effective for pregnenolone, progesterone, niacinamide and caffeine supplementation?

 

[DaveFoster]

What dosage have you found to be effective for pregnenolone, progesterone, niacinamide and caffeine supplementation?

For myself, large dosages of pregnenolone carry the effects of moderate dosages. Generally 100 to 200 mg would be considered a considerable dose.

A suitable dosage of progesterone varies, but generally men do well with very small amounts, like that in 1 drop of Health Natura's progesterone in vitamin E or something similar. I never really found a huge benefit from progesterone, but there was some benefit when I took it with multiple anti-depressant and sedative compounds, like mirtazapine, lamotrigine, gabapentin and cyproheptadine. These were stable dosages over a very long period of time, and I did not add in the progesterone until much later.

For niacinamide, I took 1000 or 1500 mg three times daily. I also took the same dosage of B1 (thiamine HCl) at the same time. Both of these can increase the metabolic demand for additional carbohydrate, so I found drinking soda pop to be helpful.

For caffeine, a proper dosage really varies. Generally a cup or two of coffee could be fine, but it's very helpful to add fat and sugar to the coffee, such as butter and sugar, cream and sugar, or for some, coconut oil and sugar. A gentleman by the name of Edward J. Edmonds wrote a piece on how he believes coconut oil to be less than ideal as a fat source compared to animal fats such as butter.

He wrote this:

It’s more of a your “millage may vary”/hunch type deal. The saturated fats in coconut oil are absorbed rapidly. Too rapidly in my opinion, enough to shift hormones and induce hypoglycemia. I don’t like sudden fluxes in hormones.

Human breast milk is mostly long chain fatty acids. Coconut oil really doesn’t have much in the way of “nutrition”. It is better than sugar, but less nutritious than animal fat.

Nevertheless, there is good literature on coconut oil but saturated fat in general tends to perform well.
– Edward J. Edmonds