Buteyko And CO2

[Jekkyl]

I'm not sure if this the right category for this post but I just wanted to clarify a few things.

Just saw a tweet and read a few posts here about CO2 and the Buteyko method. I think there are many misunderstandments about it and they way CO2 affects respiration.

I have a morning CP of 60s , my temperature during last week was at 98-99.

So, here's my perspective.

If you produce more CO2 without increasing your tolerance, you WILL hyperventilate and remove it from your blood.

The idea with the Buteyko method is to slowly adapt your chemoreceptors to tolerate more CO2 in the blood, by slightly increasing H+ during the breathing exercises or physical exercise.

I don't see how simply raising your carb intake can result in more CO2. It can result in a higher etCO2 measurement, that's for sure, but the basal amount will remain the same.

 

[Lizb]

What's your view of the classical Buteyko method? I.e. Learnbuteykoonline.com

 

[rsandy]

I've been practicing the Buteyko Method for 5 years. Every day. My MCP was stuck between 6-9 for the first 3 years. Kept troubleshooting, adapting, and trying new things. Recently, I broke through. CP is between 30-40 after some breathwork. I enrolled on a Buteyko course and am going to get coaching for the next 2 months to solidify this.

I genuinely couldn't increase my CP for years. I started sleeping on the hard floor on a earthing mat, using an infrared sauna daily, and use red light therapy for about 5 hours per day in the background.

CP is now growing and I am also implementing some of Ray's ideas again.

I think this will be positive and supportive of healing. I will continue experimenting and report.

 

[BearWithMe]

I've been practicing the Buteyko Method for 5 years. Every day. My MCP was stuck between 6-9 for the first 3 years. Kept troubleshooting, adapting, and trying new things. Recently, I broke through. CP is between 30-40 after some breathwork. I enrolled on a Buteyko course and am going to get coaching for the next 2 months to solidify this.

I genuinely couldn't increase my CP for years. I started sleeping on the hard floor on a earthing mat, using an infrared sauna daily, and use red light therapy for about 5 hours per day in the background.

CP is now growing and I am also implementing some of Ray's ideas again.

I think this will be positive and supportive of healing. I will continue experimenting and report.

Wow, that's incredible dedication.

What would you say was the most important aspect that helped you get your CP up? Did you had any focal infections?

 

[rsandy]

Wow, that's incredible dedication.

What would you say was the most important aspect that helped you get your CP up? Did you had any focal infections?

Thank you! I kept a journal evert single day for 5 years, monitoring every variable, CP, Pulse, times, type of exercise, etc.


My thoughts: the answer is in the exercises done correctly. I used the devices (DIY and Frolov), and these didn't help at all.

I had several investigative sessions with practitioners until I found a wonderful lady who really helped me. She told me that the traditional concept of air hunger hardly ever supports her clients and she advocates a very very relaxed approach to unknot the underlying dysfunctional breathing patterning.

She taught me an approach to Buteyko all focused on gentle re-patterning of breathing. I use reduced volume breathing interlinked with the extended pause. I think the extended pause, combined correctly with reduced volume breathing, is that enables the body to break it's dysfunctional breathing pattern and began to accomodate more CO2.

Professor Buteyko was a genius, and along with Peat, I think we have an amazing system for deep healing and self actualisation here.

My CP was still awful for a month or two, but I persisted, and also supported my body in resolving it's underlying deep stress (infrared sauna, sleeping on the hard floor on an earthing mat, Ray Peat inspired nutrition, and mental engagement with stimulating activities to diminish negative emotional spirals) - I then began to be able to increase my CP.

I just did a CP test now and it was 30. I've only done 1 buteyko session this morning (half an hour), have exercises for an hour (calisthenics), and am now getting on with my day. Point is: I was stuck between 4-10 CP scores for years. I kept searching and tried to remain scientific, collating the data in my journals and being consistent. Eventually I saw that certain metrics were getting better, so I knew I was going in the right direction.

I am now re-enrolled on a Buteyko course because my goal is to reach a high CP. I think with Ray's work and a high CP, life could be amazing

 

[BearWithMe]

Thank you! I kept a journal evert single day for 5 years, monitoring every variable, CP, Pulse, times, type of exercise, etc.


My thoughts: the answer is in the exercises done correctly. I used the devices (DIY and Frolov), and these didn't help at all.

I had several investigative sessions with practitioners until I found a wonderful lady who really helped me. She told me that the traditional concept of air hunger hardly ever supports her clients and she advocates a very very relaxed approach to unknot the underlying dysfunctional breathing patterning.

She taught me an approach to Buteyko all focused on gentle re-patterning of breathing. I use reduced volume breathing interlinked with the extended pause. I think the extended pause, combined correctly with reduced volume breathing, is that enables the body to break it's dysfunctional breathing pattern and began to accomodate more CO2.

Professor Buteyko was a genius, and along with Peat, I think we have an amazing system for deep healing and self actualisation here.

My CP was still awful for a month or two, but I persisted, and also supported my body in resolving it's underlying deep stress (infrared sauna, sleeping on the hard floor on an earthing mat, Ray Peat inspired nutrition, and mental engagement with stimulating activities to diminish negative emotional spirals) - I then began to be able to increase my CP.

I just did a CP test now and it was 30. I've only done 1 buteyko session this morning (half an hour), have exercises for an hour (calisthenics), and am now getting on with my day. Point is: I was stuck between 4-10 CP scores for years. I kept searching and tried to remain scientific, collating the data in my journals and being consistent. Eventually I saw that certain metrics were getting better, so I knew I was going in the right direction.

I am now re-enrolled on a Buteyko course because my goal is to reach a high CP. I think with Ray's work and a high CP, life could be amazing

Awesome, many thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[Heidi]

Thank you! I kept a journal evert single day for 5 years, monitoring every variable, CP, Pulse, times, type of exercise, etc.


My thoughts: the answer is in the exercises done correctly. I used the devices (DIY and Frolov), and these didn't help at all.

I had several investigative sessions with practitioners until I found a wonderful lady who really helped me. She told me that the traditional concept of air hunger hardly ever supports her clients and she advocates a very very relaxed approach to unknot the underlying dysfunctional breathing patterning.

She taught me an approach to Buteyko all focused on gentle re-patterning of breathing. I use reduced volume breathing interlinked with the extended pause. I think the extended pause, combined correctly with reduced volume breathing, is that enables the body to break it's dysfunctional breathing pattern and began to accomodate more CO2.

I am so impressed with your perseverance. Congratulations on finally increasing your CP! I was wondering if you could describe more of the specifics of what you are doing.

I have come back to Buteyko breathing with a very relaxed approach and I think that it is making a big difference. I think before that I was striving too much and too goal oriented and it really worked against me. I feel dedicated to reduced breathing as a way of life now. So many little things helped me that it's hard to say what has made a difference. One thing I did was to uncouple air hunger from trauma. I reminded myself that sensations of air hunger were good and retrained myself to perceive and interpret air hunger sensations positively.

Have you noticed increased health benefits with your breakthrough? Thanks in advance for any more details or tips you can offer. Congratulations again on finally having success after so many years of very little improvement.

 

[yerrag]

If you produce more CO2 without increasing your tolerance, you WILL hyperventilate and remove it from your blood.

It's not so much as producing CO2 as much as retaining more CO2 than what the body can handle that will cause you to want to breathe out the excess CO2.

That's why it's important to get properly trained on Buteyko.

The ecf can tolerate a pH between 7.35-7.45, with 7.40 being otimal.

When you retain too much CO2, it makes the pH go more acidic. If you started out at 7.4, you still have plenty of room to decrease the pH and doing Buteyko would decrease your pH as the CO2 is increased. If you started out at 7.35, you have little room to take in more CO2 as it will cause pH to go down beyond tolerance, lower than 7.35, where you reach acidemia. At acidemia, the body will react by hyperventilating because it wants to expel CO2 in order to increase the pH.

But if you're not in that precarious acidic state, you won't hyperventilate as the body will tolerate the pH level you have put yourself in by practicing Buteyko, where you make yourself retain more CO2. The body will increase its CO2 levels, while it will use the kidneys, instead of the lungs, to increase its pH to make it reach closer to the optimal vaue of 7.4. But instead of expelling CO2, the body will expel other acids.

In this way, the body increases its CO2 content over time by the regular practice of Buteyko and the adustment by the kidneys.

But I find Buteyko to be unnecessary if the body can start to produce more CO2 from good sugar metabolism. With good sugar metabolism, the body's own production of acids such as lactic acid and keto acids will be reduced as well. So in a body with healthy sugar metabolism, there is enough CO2 and there's no need for Buteyko to be practiced.

 

[qwazy]

I've been practicing the Buteyko Method for 5 years. Every day. My MCP was stuck between 6-9 for the first 3 years. Kept troubleshooting, adapting, and trying new things. Recently, I broke through. CP is between 30-40 after some breathwork. I enrolled on a Buteyko course and am going to get coaching for the next 2 months to solidify this.

I genuinely couldn't increase my CP for years. I started sleeping on the hard floor on a earthing mat, using an infrared sauna daily, and use red light therapy for about 5 hours per day in the background.

CP is now growing and I am also implementing some of Ray's ideas again.

I think this will be positive and supportive of healing. I will continue experimenting and report.

That sounds like a great success! How and what red light are you using? I feel kind of stuck with my CP. Sadly I am not able to do enough grounding so I wonder if you have some other advice on how to boost the CP? Also with which teacher are you working together?

 

[gettodachopper6]

That sounds like a great success! How and what red light are you using? I feel kind of stuck with my CP. Sadly I am not able to do enough grounding so I wonder if you have some other advice on how to boost the CP? Also with which teacher are you working together?

What red light are you using?

 

[md_a]

“The last air out of the lungs should approach 6% CO2, but with a continuous recorder you can calibrate it to make a correspondence between normal breathing and the forced expiration. The liters per minute don’t matter at all, except for estimating your metabolic rate, if you know the percentage of CO2. Some of the Buteyko people have mistakenly focused on the ventilation rate, forgetting that it’s meaningful only when you know the thyroid status…..Yes, when thyroid supports a higher metabolic rate, the increased CO2 is preventing physiological hyperventilation, in the sense of breathing so much that the amount of CO2 in the body is decreased. Slow breathing hypothyroid people, and many athletes with a slow heart rate, are really hyperventilating in the physiological sense, and are likely to have elevated lactate in the blood, displacing CO2.” Ray Peat

 

[BearWithMe]

“The last air out of the lungs should approach 6% CO2, but with a continuous recorder you can calibrate it to make a correspondence between normal breathing and the forced expiration. The liters per minute don’t matter at all, except for estimating your metabolic rate, if you know the percentage of CO2. Some of the Buteyko people have mistakenly focused on the ventilation rate, forgetting that it’s meaningful only when you know the thyroid status…..Yes, when thyroid supports a higher metabolic rate, the increased CO2 is preventing physiological hyperventilation, in the sense of breathing so much that the amount of CO2 in the body is decreased. Slow breathing hypothyroid people, and many athletes with a slow heart rate, are really hyperventilating in the physiological sense, and are likely to have elevated lactate in the blood, displacing CO2.” Ray Peat

This is great quote, thank you very much for posting it!