Broken downstairs after coming off testosterone

[Ideal man]

Will this be permanent or will taking 40mgs of nolvadex reverse the shut down?

 

[Hans]

Will this be permanent or will taking 40mgs of nolvadex reverse the shut down?

How long have you been on and at what dose? Also, how old are you and were you hypogonadal before starting T?

 

[AspiringSage]

Your condition before starting, the dose and length of testosterone administration is likely a factor in the speed and degree of recovery. A study out of Belgium a few years ago found that there wasn’t much benefit to PCT vs natural recovery. However, I suspect that those results were confounded by other anabolic steroids in addition to testosterone. If you read TRT/HRT forums there are many accounts of PCT working well.

What was your dose and how long were you on testosterone? We’re you taking any other anabolic steroids particularly one with the long lived ester e.g. deca/nandrolone?

Personally, I would stay away from any extended high dose use of nolvadex. I have never taken novladex, but two of my friends have. One experienced mild vision side effects then other didn’t. Nolvadex strikes me as a nasty drug with funky long term side effects.

I have experimented with T3, pregnenolone, HCG and enclomiphene (with minimal side effects) to partially recover from low testosterone. So, I would look into those options before nolvadex. If you must use nolvadex then personally, I would keep the dose low and the duration short.

 

[NextLevel_]

All questions Hans asked need to be answered first to get a better picture of the situation.

How do you know you are shut down? Just based on feelings?

In general things like HCG, Pregnenolone, Tribulus Terrestris are things that can help to stimulate hormone production

 

[pineywoodrooter]

I personally wouldn't recommend any of the traditional "PCT" drugs, that's for sure.

I experimented with mono Clomid therapy and added HCG for a while to bump my levels above baseline. I did get to around 1200 with those, but with a cost.

Clomid is hands down the worst drug I have ever taken. Depression, fatigue, gut issues with nausea, vision changes, and alcohol intolerance. The half-life of Clomid is extremely long, which causes the side-effects to last quite a while. I felt like trash for a whole month after only a couple small doses. I have not tried Nolva, but I imagine the experience would be similar.

HCG led to immediate estrogenic side effects. For some it works.

 

[AspiringSage]

I personally wouldn't recommend any of the traditional "PCT" drugs, that's for sure.

I experimented with mono Clomid therapy and added HCG for a while to bump my levels above baseline. I did get to around 1200 with those, but with a cost.

Clomid is hands down the worst drug I have ever taken. Depression, fatigue, gut issues with nausea, vision changes, and alcohol intolerance. The half-life of Clomid is extremely long, which causes the side-effects to last quite a while. I felt like trash for a whole month after only a couple small doses. I have not tried Nolva, but I imagine the experience would be similar.

HCG led to immediate estrogenic side effects. For some it works.

What was your dose of HCG? I suspect HCG can induce estrogenic side effects via two mechanisms. 1. HCG is itself a quisi or perhaps proto estrogen (this is a fascinating topic for a later post) 2. via increased aromatization (conversation of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme).

Did you try an aromatase inhibitor during your HCG experiments?

Clomifene aka clomid, serophene, clomiphene is a drug comprised of two similar molecules. I am not sure if it was designed as a combination drug or if they were unable to differentiate the molecules (technically stereoisomers) when it was developed and approved. According to wiki clomid is 38% zuclomifene and 62% enclomifene, but ratios probably vary a little.

Enclomifene and zuclomifene have different half lives and different effects. Enclomifene is generally low side effect and short lived. Zuclomifene is generally high side effect and long lived. Hence, zuclomifene tends to accumulate and cause nasty side effects during clomid treatment. This probably isn’t a significant problem when clomid is used intermittently to induce ovulation in women. It’s a big problem when its taken daily or every other day to boost testosterone in males.

Using purified enclomifene on its own avoids many of the nasty clomid effects. The bodybuilding/steroid community has been ontop of this for a while. And some providers in the US are now prescribing purified enclomifene from compounding pharmacies. I think there was some FDA drama around if enclomifene was a new drug or not. So, availability and provider awareness varies.

 

[pineywoodrooter]

What was your dose of HCG? I suspect HCG can induce estrogenic side effects via two mechanisms. 1. HCG is itself a quisi or perhaps proto estrogen (this is a fascinating topic for a later post) 2. via increased aromatization (conversation of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme).

Did you try an aromatase inhibitor during your HCG experiments?

Clomifene aka clomid, serophene, clomiphene is a drug comprised of two similar molecules. I am not sure if it was designed as a combination drug or if they were unable to differentiate the molecules (technically stereoisomers) when it was developed and approved. According to wiki clomid is 38% zuclomifene and 62% enclomifene, but ratios probably vary a little.

Enclomifene and zuclomifene have different half lives and different effects. Enclomifene is generally low side effect and short lived. Zuclomifene is generally high side effect and long lived. Hence, zuclomifene tends to accumulate and cause nasty side effects during clomid treatment. This probably isn’t a significant problem when clomid is used intermittently to induce ovulation in women. It’s a big problem when its taken daily or every other day to boost testosterone in males.

Using purified enclomifene on its own avoids many of the nasty clomid effects. The bodybuilding/steroid community has been ontop of this for a while. And some providers in the US are now prescribing purified enclomifene from compounding pharmacies. I think there was some FDA drama around if enclomifene was a new drug or not. So, availability and provider awareness varies.

I can't remember the exact dose, but it was pretty low. I only tried it a few times, and each time I had a very noticeable estrogenic reaction.

The clinic did prescribe anti-e's, but I did not take them. I'm wary of toying around with the pharmaceutical anti-e's.

 

[Mister]

Anyone know enclomiphene source in europe?