Broda Barnes

ejtwofiftyfive

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Hi Everyone,

First time posting here, and had a question. I recently picked up a copy of Hypothyroidism:The Unsuspected Illness by Broda Barnes since Dr. Peat mentions Broda Barnes quite a bit and it seemed like it would be an interesting read. Read through a bit of it, and got quite the shock when I reached the diet section where he recommends essentially an Atkins diet.

What gives?
 

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charlie

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ejtwofiftyfive , welcome to the forum. I moved this over to the General Discussion section because I believe it's connected to Ray Peat.

I have been meaning to get that book. Thanks for bringing the topic up.
 

MrMoose63

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While it does look similiar to Atkins there are some striking similiarities to Peat as well.

Eggs
Fruit Juice
Protein
Butter
Fresh Fruit
Coffee
Milk
Most items limited are starchy

Keep in mind the context. Peat is using sugar emphasize the conversion of T4 to T3, but Broda Barnes traditionally started with Thyroid. Perhaps with this supplementation some of the other variables are less significant.

From what I've read Peat used to eat ~50% of calories from fat(primarily saturarted), but changed to more sugar to displace additional PUFA. At the time Barnes was practicing I'm not sure that all of the information about PUFA had come to light (or that they were as prevalent in society).
 
J

j.

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MrMoose63 said:
At the time Barnes was practicing I'm not sure that all of the information about PUFA had come to light (or that they were as prevalent in society).

I was wondering about that too. Apparently, Barnes knew about PUFA.

Broda Barnes said:
Polyunsaturated fats offer you absolutely nothing except an earlier grave. If you doubt that, go to the autopsies done among the Bantu, among the Japanese and you will find that their arteriosclerosis before the age of thirty is far greater than it is on the American diet, or on the Austrian diet, very similar to ours. This is a fake. Polyunsaturated fats, when this story is finally written is going to make Watergate look like a church social. This is a lie that has been forced on the public. Originally, they were in earnest. They thought it was true. But they know better today.

This page attributes the statement above to Broda Barnes. Link
 

charlie

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Mind=Blown. Again.

:holysheep
 
J

j.

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I wonder what are the differences between the dietary approaches of Barnes and Peat.

Both are in favor of saturated fats, and against polyunsaturated fats.

Peat is in favor of a high calcium/phosphorus ratio in the diet. Did Barnes know this?

Peat is aware that some raw vegetables are anti-thyroid. Did Barnes know this?

Peat is aware that legumes are anti-thyroid. Did Barnes know this?

Barnes seemingly had a different view on sugar.
 

kettlebell

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I think its just a case of Peat has taken and learned/used the good stuff from Barnes and discarded what he observed as being untrue like any good scientist.

That is one of the things I have grown to admire about Mr Peat. It is very clear that he is a true scientist. I am certain he would change his mind on any and all of his views without a hint of hesitation if he was presented with good repeatable evidence that an idea of his is wrong.

I still try to keep an open mind and even question Mr Peat and that causes me to learn by reading into the things he says. What makes him great is that he still continues to question everything he preaches as he is clearly constantly pouring over every bit of research he can get his hands on looking for not only evidence that supports what he says but evidence that does not. When he finds evidence that does not support his view he evidently spends a lot of time really analysing, not only the data, but the people behind the studies, and gets a good full clear picture of the evidence that only I could dream of. He then generally systematically takes that evidence apart :lol: Not because he wants or is driven to by ego, but because he is obliged to as a good scientist.

Its a real shame that most people who call them scientists really do not deserve the title. Most are dogmatists.
 

charlie

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:clap:
 

montmorency

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It's rather interesting...that comment earlier on apparent similarity to Atkins.


I came to Peat from a low-carb background (not specifically Atkins...I got into LC via Gary Taubes fairly comprehensive study of the history of dieting "Good Calories, Bad Calories" (aka, "The Diet Delusion").


The way I liked to think about my approach to diet, prior to discovering Ray, was that I was simply eating "real food", and as close to what we probably or possibly evolved to eat.
(I never referred to what I did as "paleo" though ... that's an affectation, as far as I'm concerned).


So I ate beef, lamb (fortunately, I avoided pork as much as possible), and I loved eating meat that had bones, and I made bone broths from time to time. (I loved the fat from those animals as well).

I quite often used coconut oil, or if not, then beef dripping or butter. Never PUFAs.

I'd totally eliminated starches.


So, when I came to discover Ray Peat, I actually discovered more similarities to what I was already doing than differences.

The main difference was that I'd reduced my fruit to almost none, and I never used sugar.

So I've added back fruit, maybe too much, and I'm not averse to the odd ice-cream, but I still try to avoid anything processed where possible.


I've never read any Broda Barnes, but I know Ray is always talking about him, so I really would like to try to remedy my lack of Barnes knowledge.
 

Jenn

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We are how many generations away from the people Barnes was working with? People are not as healthy as people were then, the food was different too. Even in Barnes day, there were some people that thyroid didn't work for...the beginnings of the need for T3?
 

jyb

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Jenn said:
People are not as healthy as people were then, the food was different too.

I'm in awe when I look at black in white movies. Men and women had different body proportions than they do now.
 

ilovethesea

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jyb said:
I'm in awe when I look at black in white movies. Men and women had different body proportions than they do now.

Like how?

I think both sexes are way fatter now, obviously. But of the people who aren't (like say the young 20s professionals in an urban environment where I live), the biggest thing I notice is that women don't have waists anymore. They are very straight up and down even if they are skinny. I wonder if that has a hormonal reason behind it.

I think Marilyn Monroe's figure is just about right for females.

As for men, they seemed leaner then. Not just without pot bellies but also not so artificially jacked up from working out at the gym. That meathead look is so not attractive.
 

montmorency

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ilovethesea said:
jyb said:
I'm in awe when I look at black in white movies. Men and women had different body proportions than they do now.

Like how?

I think both sexes are way fatter now, obviously. But of the people who aren't (like say the young 20s professionals in an urban environment where I live), the biggest thing I notice is that women don't have waists anymore. They are very straight up and down even if they are skinny. I wonder if that has a hormonal reason behind it.

I think Marilyn Monroe's figure is just about right for females.

As for men, they seemed leaner then. Not just without pot bellies but also not so artificially jacked up from working out at the gym. That meathead look is so not attractive.


I tend to agree with you, but wasn't it common for women to wear girdles back in the days you are probably referring to? (Some men too, probably :) ).

I was looking at a group photo of my mother and her 6 siblings and their spouses recently. It would have been taken in, maybe 1956-57. Every single one of them is lean looking. They'd be in their late 20s and 30s I think. Most but not all put on a fair amount of weight in middle to old age. Some (but not all) lived or are still living to a ripe age.
 

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