Breathing Exercises Made My Hypothyroid

[Collden]

Been doing strict nasal breathing during running again for the past couple of weeks, Artour believes this is the most effective way to raise ones control pause. My resting breathing pattern has become much reduced during this time, but I do not necessarily feel better, most notably decreased appetite.

Could be reduced breathing is useful for inducing relaxation, since I do feel a great stillness when I consciously control and reduce my breathing, but that it conversely inhibits stimulation and is counter-productive in any situation where you actually want to increase stimulatory processes, since if you observe any situation where a person is aroused, stimulated or excited, the tendency is to increase ones breathing and even deliberately breathe through the mouth. Maybe persistently reducing your breathing will inhibit your ability to become stimulated, and this leads to reduced metabolism over time.

To observe Artour in his videos he seems hypothyroid and exhibits an inhibited personality, stark difference to someone like Wim Hof, who is quite a bit older.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I have noticed that hypoventilation crashes my body temperature. One of the things that happens is am covered in sweat, literally my face and hands are covered in beads of sweat and my clothing would get soaking wet. I suspect, and all this is conjecture, that the carbon dioxide causes cells to dump water, and this both lowers body temp by diluting the liquids and causes hyperhidriosis. In addition, the body has a number of regulatory systems which try to maintain a homeostasis, and if CO2 increases metabolism, lowering body temp would compensate for that.

Could be completely wrong. I have decided that I will raise my temp to 37C naked under a heat lamp, do hypoventilation for 35 minutes, followed by a hot shower. This hypothetically allows me to force the whole system to function at a higher temperature and CO2 level. It's quite draining, but it does seem to work. I'm on day 5.

 

[Jekkyl]

I don't get what you guys are talking about tbh. You seem to lack a fundamental knowledge as to how respiration works.

Increasing your CO2 tolerance will not result in decreased CO2 production.

Where did you get that?

C6H12O6 + 6O2 -> 6CO2 + 6H2O

This equation is independent of your CO2 tolerance and describes the production of CO2.

But if your tolerance is low, you'll simply hyperventilate and expell a lot of it.

Now, it's a paradox when Ray Peat recommends breathing into a bag but he's not sure about breathing retention.

Breathing into a bag (it works as a dead space device, you know, like the dead space in your sinuses, throat, and upper bronchi) will result in (relative) hypoventilation after 5-10 minutes. You'll literally breathe less (if you managed to stay calm during the bag breathing so your chemoreceptors where able to reset to a high aCO2 concentration).

You can breathe in lots of exogenous CO2 but you will simply hyperventilate. You won't reap any benefit unless you increase your tolerance.

This is why COPD patients can have an attack after a high carb meal. They start hyperventilating

Also, you have to consider the difference between efficient and effective.

By breathing more, you take in more oxygen but you don't utilize as much as when you breathe less because of the Bohr effect.

As far as symptoms like cold hands and feet, it's the first time I hear a Buteyko instructor to say that "it's common". It's not common at all and it'd be a reason to dig deeper as to why it happens.

You should teach the method only when your CP is at 60s+. Because only then you'll understand the subtleties of the method.

Physiology, Carbon Dioxide Retention - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’m a practitioner. Cold hands and feet is very common. It does drop metabolic rate. It is still worth doing but it isn’t the whole story.

 

[Jekkyl]

I’m a practitioner. Cold hands and feet is very common. It does drop metabolic rate. It is still worth doing but it isn’t the whole story.

You're a practitioner with a CP of 35-40, meaning you aren't qualified to teach the method.

But you can still address my explanation.

(For reference, my morning CP is at 60s+and my temper is between 37C and 37.2C)

 

[ecstatichamster]

You're a practitioner with a CP of 35-40, meaning you aren't qualified to teach the method.

But you can still address my explanation.

(For reference, my morning CP is at 60s+and my temper is between 37C and 37.2C)

that’s fine if you want to believe that. I’ve talked to many practitioners and very few actually have a control pause over 40.

 

[Jekkyl]

that’s fine if you want to believe that. I’ve talked to many practitioners and very few actually have a control pause over 40.

It's very well established that nonwestern practitioners taught by Buteyko himself were allowed to teach the method only when they reached 60s.

The fact that most western instructioners today teaching the method can't even achieve 40s is a testament of their (lack of) understanding of the method. You can't expect someone who hasn't reached the Buteyko norm to help you reach it...

But again, it seems that you aren't addressing my original response. I thought this was something you wanted to reconciliate.

 

[Motorneuron]

So a person with already an "acid base" induced by chronic disease, would it be beneficial or would it be counterproductive to have the CO2 increase as a goal? balancing with fruits and vegetables regarding the alkaline side? @Jekkyl

 

[ecstatichamster]

It’s always productive to raise CO2 levels. It is life promoting.

 

[Motorneuron]

It’s always productive to raise CO2 levels. It is life promoting.

Even during an "acid" state for example in a chronic neurodegenerative disease? as you can see it should be contextualized ...

I feel like I haven't read it here on the Forum, but the suspension of breath (I don't like to call it holding) increases the EPO.

 

[TheSir]

Even during an "acid" state for example in a chronic neurodegenerative disease?

Especially then. Co2 is the only acidifer that doesn't contribute to neurodegenerative diseases. Building up co2 will cause the body to flush out the more harmful acids in order to maintain the alkaline-acid balance

 

[Motorneuron]

Especially then. Co2 is the only acidifer that doesn't contribute to neurodegenerative diseases. Building up co2 will cause the body to flush out the more harmful acids in order to maintain the alkaline-acid balance

Thanks

 

[ecstatichamster]

Especially then. Co2 is the only acidifer that doesn't contribute to neurodegenerative diseases. Building up co2 will cause the body to flush out the more harmful acids in order to maintain the alkaline-acid balance

Exactly.

 

[yerrag]

It's very well established that nonwestern practitioners taught by Buteyko himself were allowed to teach the method only when they reached 60s.

The fact that most western instructioners today teaching the method can't even achieve 40s is a testament of their (lack of) understanding of the method. You can't expect someone who hasn't reached the Buteyko norm to help you reach it...

But again, it seems that you aren't addressing my original response. I thought this was something you wanted to reconciliate.

Do you think it's because people in the US are brought up on a bad nutritional lifestyle that impairs their sugar metabolism? To such extent that it's manifested in the general population being unable to maintain good blood sugar control (which makes them fat), which would also come hand in hand with having poor acid-base balance, on account of having too much lactic acid and too little CO2in their system - blood and ecf together?

The more CO2 and the less lactic acid naturally makes a person have a longer control pause, even without practicing Buteyko.

But Americans generally don't have this quality in their physiology, and are hard pressed to achieve CP's of 60. Finding an American (or Westerners for that matter, of the same tribe in terms of lifestyle and indoctrination) with CP's of 60, even with Buteyko training, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

As to why people can reach high control pauses more than others, I think it has to do with the body being able to stay longer without breathing as its very efficient sugar metabolism serum CO2 to very much dictate serum acidity. This is because there is little lactic acid to acidify blood, and therefore a lot of CO2 can be generated from metabolism for a longer time in one breath from resting metabolism before serum acidity reaches a point where the respiratory drive is triggered. The respiratory drive is what forces us to breathe.

 

[yerrag]

I’m a practitioner. Cold hands and feet is very common. It does drop metabolic rate. It is still worth doing but it isn’t the whole story.

I'm just guessing here. But why are cold hands and feet very common?

I think that because Buteyko increases the serum acidity (or lowers serum pH). The natural body reaction would be to increase breathing rate to lower serum acidity, but it is suppressed by our consciously keeping the body from increasing the breathing rate. We in fact consciously lower the breathing rate. So the only way to lower acidity then would have to be thru the kidneys, and thru the kidneys it's lactic acid and other endogenous as well as exogenous acids that are excreted in order to lower the acidity of our system.

This requires our kidneys and perhaps the liver to work more to enable processes in order to effect. The liver and the kidneys , for example, have to convert glutamic acid to ammonia and the kidney has to make ammonia into ammonium in order to pair it with lactate, for example, so that the resulting salt can be excreted in urine. All this work requires more blood to be directed towards the internal organs and away from the peripheries such as hands and feet.

So that may be why you experience cold hands and feet practicing Buteyko.

 

[Motorneuron]

The difference is applying breath retention techniques during aerobic and anaerobic exercises ... many practitioners who sit comfortably on a pillow would have considerable difficulty.

An example ? We start from a second and go up until our diaphragmatic and lung capacity can handle the metabolic stress.

Push-ups or free squats, or running.

1 second I go down I inhale, one second stop I hold, 1 second I go up and out, 1 second stop I hold.

Then I repeat but I go up with the seconds ... written like this it seems simple or trivial but the 1-1-1-1 technique is really effective applicable to any exercise, it leads the athlete to be damned present.

To bring less pressure to the organs, burst breathing is the most effective technique.

 

[yerrag]

So a person with already an "acid base" induced by chronic disease, would it be beneficial or would it be counterproductive to have the CO2 increase as a goal? balancing with fruits and vegetables regarding the alkaline side? @Jekkyl

What do you mean by an acid base? They are opposites as base also means alkaline. You must mean that person has an acidic ecf. If that person has an acidic ecf, then he is likely to (outside of taking drugs and supplements regularly that are acidic loads or have a chronic infection that causes acid to be produced) to have a pathologically high amount of lactic acid and keto acids and low amount of CO2 as a result of poor metabolism.

But that's a good question, as someone who is very acid constitution, close to acidemia (beyond limits) or close to it, as opposed to having acidosis (within tolerable limits where he isn't an ER candidate) shouldn't be doing Buteyko. This is why I think Dr. Buteyko requires people to be trained properly on it.

That said, generally Buteyko trainors are not really steeped in physiology. My trainer can give you the basics, but when he encounters an outcome from his students that are not to be expected, he is hard pressed to explain why. So I have to think it through myself. So, again, I speak from my own logic and the little that I understand about how the body works in controlling acid-base balance.

I would say that people who attend Buteyko classes are those who can benefit from it. So these people generally are acidic, and do not breathe well, and tend to breathe a lot. Where the breathing rate is considered optimal at 14 breaths per minute, reflecting good blood pH, these people are breathing at a higher rate. They are told to slow their breathing rate, and in holding their breath longer, so that more CO2 is retained, as each breath is not just about inhaling oxygen, but more about exhaling carbon dioxide. This training forces people to breathe unnaturally actually, but this modified behavior has the purpose of increasing CO2 in a body that is poor at producing CO2 endogenously. And the reason for that is they do not sugar efficiently, and the result is low CO2 production and high lactic acid or keto acid production.

When Buteyko breathing is practiced regularly, each day the blood pH will become more acidic temporarily as CO2 builds up, but because the body can sense the increased acidity, it will try to quickly correct it by increasing the breathing rate so that CO2 can be expelled. But because the person is trained to slow his breathing rate, this natural reaction of the body is suppressed. So the body goes to the next organ, the kidneys, to excrete the acids. And this is how lactic acids and keto acids are exceted faster while CO2 is retained.

Over time, the amount of lactic and keto acids are reduced significantly, while the amount of carbonic acid from CO2 is increased. And in this way, the blood (and the ecf) will contain more and more CO2, and it will be carbonic acid, instead of lactic/keto acids determining the lion's share of blood acidity. This has the benefit of better tissue oxygenation (aka internal respiration) which has a great impact of improving sugar metabolism (thus increasing CO2 production and lessening lactic acid production) and improving the reaction time for the body to correct pH imbalances, as CO2 can be exhaled rapidly thru the lungs when the pH is acidic (or conserved by slower breathing rate), plus CO2 is a great buffer that keeps pH steady, as it can easily add acidity by converting to carbonic acid, or add alkalinity by quickly converting to bicarbonate.

Of course, the person has to be aware that in order to maximize his Buteyko training, he has to improve on his nutritional lifestyle in the way of improving his sugar metabolism by avoiding stuff like PUFA, and not buying into lifestyles that treat carbohydrates and sugar like they are toxic.

 

[TheSir]

But that's a good question, as someone who is very acid constitution, close to acidemia (beyond limits) or close to it, as opposed to having acidosis (within tolerable limits where he isn't an ER candidate) shouldn't be doing Buteyko. This is why I think Dr. Buteyko requires people to be trained properly on it.

I've heard it recommened to very sick people that instead of reducing breathing they should simply try to relax as deliberately and thoroughly as possible. This has the effect of reduced lactic acid output due to lessened sympathetic drive, as well as increased sugar metabolism due to increased parasympathetic drive, which will gently nudge the body towards better acid makeup without introducing additional acidity to the system.

For these people complete relaxation can be really difficult to achieve and their body may actively try to resist their attempt to let go of the muscular tension, but by persistently focusing on it they can reach up to 20s CP before they will even have to think about reducing their volume of breathing.

This kind of forceful relaxation is very therapeutic for anyone by the way. By pursuing it, you may quickly realize that you're never completely relaxed. Even when you think you are, you may still be able to push the relaxation a step or two deeper by trying harder.

A 20 minute session will calm the mind and increase feelings of joy and freshness in the body. Doing it the first thing in the morning is a great way to start the day. Habitually doing it as often as you remember should have a profound impact on your health. Soon enough it may become your baseline for daily living.

 

[TheSir]

@ecstatichamster
@yerrag
I too often experience colder extemities during and shortly after a reduced breathing session. My interpretation of it is two-fold:

1) cortisol is innately tied to one's ability to raise CP and will thus rise with hypoventilation. A person with cortisol deficiency is typically unable to progress with Buteyko.

2) the increased oxygenation may cause the body to burn through glucose, potentially causing hypoglycemia since the exercise is often done on an empty stomach. I've experienced panic attacks mid-session by reducing breathing when I was already borderline hypoglycemic. It quickly resolved with a little sugar.

To me, neither is overly harmful so long as the extremities remain warm outside the sessions.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Breathing exercises saved my life. Literally. But they made me cold. They made me very cold. My coach never thought anything of it because it’s very common. I have noticed it too as a coach myself. But I only put it together over the last few years. It’s forcing your body to raise CO2 and the way your body responds is to lower metabolic rate in order to do the breathing exercises more comfortably. That’s my conclusion. Nothing is 100% perfect and good. Everything has its trade offs. My lifestyle for the past many years has been incredible thanks to the CO2 raising that I do without thought — but it also has made me take thyroid these days.