Brainfog Going From Keto To Eating More Carbs

Fil72

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Hello peaters,
Asking for a a friend of mine.
She is going from doing a keto diet to introducing more carbs in her diet. On the Keto diet she feels amazing,
She was in ketosis many months last year and had zero sugar cravings (!), high energy, clarity of mind. As soon as she ups her carb intake and switched out from being fat burner to carb burner she got brain fog, tiredness and sugar cravings. She thought she might adjust but hasnt and has also put on weight.
What would be the easiest and simplest way to explain why this might happen? I think she has some sort of health issues (as why otherwise would anyone go ketosis). Generally she eats a WAPF sort of diet.

I am thinking she might go too fast with carb intake? INtroducing carbs is uncovering some health issues that were suppressed by the keto?

Please help me understand this too! So I can clear it up for her.
THank you and warm wishes,
 

TeaRex14

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Sounds like hypoglycemia to me. Her sugar is bottoming out, causing lethargic symptoms. It's always much harder to make the full switch from fat burning to glucose burning than one may realize. Many things can keep someone in that fat burning state despite reintroducing carbohydrate to their diet. High fat diets tend to not pair well with carbohydrate for starters, so if she's going to eat more carbohydrate then she probably needs to reduce her dietary fat intake. That's probably the main problem with the weight gain, just too many calories. The randle cycle will cause the fatty acids and glucose to compete, causing insulin resistance and weight gain. So reducing dietary fat would be my recommendation.

High fat diets tend to cause a lot of endotoxin as well, not only that, but cause it to be adsorbed into the bloodstream too. This creates a negative feedback loop, making it hard to turn off the stress response (which is keeping you in a fat burning state). So it would also probably help to cleanse the intestine of any endotoxin. Activated charcoal is awesome at this, it's able to adsorb the endotoxin and a lot of the bacteria and flush it out. Taking about a 10 gram serving, about 2 hours after your last meal of the day, will help. You can do it daily if you want, personally I do it 3 times a week. Carrot salads also help, but they're much more milder than the charcoal.
 

tankasnowgod

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Hello peaters,
Asking for a a friend of mine.
She is going from doing a keto diet to introducing more carbs in her diet. On the Keto diet she feels amazing,
She was in ketosis many months last year and had zero sugar cravings (!), high energy, clarity of mind. As soon as she ups her carb intake and switched out from being fat burner to carb burner she got brain fog, tiredness and sugar cravings. She thought she might adjust but hasnt and has also put on weight.
What would be the easiest and simplest way to explain why this might happen? I think she has some sort of health issues (as why otherwise would anyone go ketosis). Generally she eats a WAPF sort of diet.

I am thinking she might go too fast with carb intake? INtroducing carbs is uncovering some health issues that were suppressed by the keto?

Please help me understand this too! So I can clear it up for her.
THank you and warm wishes,

One explanation that is the carbs are essentially letting more tryptophan into the brain, causing more serotonin to be produced, due to the effects of insulin on carbs and amino acids. You can search the forum for more details on this, but some of the basic strategies to reduce this is to favor sugars over starches, eat carbs with some protein, eat lower tryptophan protein sources, include gelatin in the diet. There is also the strategy of blocking tryptophan into the brain with BCAAs + tyrosine or phelylanaine (or the Impower Supplement), if exploring amino acid powders is something desired.
 

Kartoffel

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High fat diets tend to cause a lot of endotoxin as well, not only that, but cause it to be adsorbed into the bloodstream too. This creates a negative feedback loop, making it hard to turn off the stress response (which is keeping you in a fat burning state). So it would also probably help to cleanse the intestine of any endotoxin.

That's an over generalization. Saturated fat will not cause or exacerbate endotoxemia. Saturated fat protects the liver from endotoxin, and in the long-term drastically reduces the amount of endotoxin in the gut compared to a starch or PUFA diet.

Hello peaters,
Asking for a a friend of mine.
She is going from doing a keto diet to introducing more carbs in her diet. On the Keto diet she feels amazing,
She was in ketosis many months last year and had zero sugar cravings (!), high energy, clarity of mind. As soon as she ups her carb intake and switched out from being fat burner to carb burner she got brain fog, tiredness and sugar cravings. She thought she might adjust but hasnt and has also put on weight.
What would be the easiest and simplest way to explain why this might happen? I think she has some sort of health issues (as why otherwise would anyone go ketosis). Generally she eats a WAPF sort of diet.

I am thinking she might go too fast with carb intake? INtroducing carbs is uncovering some health issues that were suppressed by the keto?

Please help me understand this too! So I can clear it up for her.
THank you and warm wishes,

When you eat a high-fat, very low-carb diet for a long time, the enzymes in your digestive tract have very likely been altered significantly, and it will take a while until you can process them properly so that the carbs you eat don't mainly feed bacteria. Especially in that initial phase, sucrose from things like sweet fruit (juice), honey, etc is likely to be much safer than starch.
 
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Cirion

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I had severe reactions too going from keto to introducing carbs. I literally would react to anything with 20 gram or more of carb. It takes some time, and probably want to ease into it gradually rather than go full throttle and introduce several hundred grams a day from having zero a day.
 

TeaRex14

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That's an over generalization. Saturated fat will not cause or exacerbate endotoxemia. Saturated fat protects the liver from endotoxin, and in the long-term drastically reduces the amount of endotoxin in the gut compared to a starch or PUFA diet.
No, that's not what I said. I wasn't pointing a finger at any particular fatty acid. High fat diets, regardless of which fats predominate, will increase endotoxin adsorption. There's some debate to suggest which fats are worse, but that just ignores the overall arching message that too much fat (of any kind) can cause endotoxin problems. Personally I think PUFAs are much worse, obviously. The SFAs don't suppress thyroid and metabolism like PUFAs do.
 

Kartoffel

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No, that's not what I said. I wasn't pointing a finger at any particular fatty acid. High fat diets, regardless of which fats predominate, will increase endotoxin adsorption. There's some debate to suggest which fats are worse, but that just ignores the overall arching message that too much fat (of any kind) can cause endotoxin problems. Personally I think PUFAs are much worse, obviously. The SFAs don't suppress thyroid and metabolism like PUFAs do.

I haven't seen any evidence that saturated fat causes any problems related to endotoxemia. In fact, it is used to cure things that are said to be incurable like cirrhosis and advanced degeneration of the liver.
 

TeaRex14

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I haven't seen any evidence that saturated fat causes any problems related to endotoxemia. In fact, it is used to cure things that are said to be incurable like cirrhosis and advanced degeneration of the liver.
Yeah, well it's certainly debatable. I've seen your debates with Captain_Coconut on the topic. Because it's controversial, and I don't fully believe the science is settled on the matter, I just avoid the issue and rather focus on the fact a high fat diet (As in, high total fat) seems problematic for endotoxin. Besides, there's no way to substantially increase saturated fat intake without also increasing unsaturated fat intake. Even if you ate nothing but beef and dairy all day it would still increase the unsaturated fat intake substantially. Also worth noting, Kyle Mamounis, a Peat influenced biochemist, believes saturated fat can help pull endotoxin into the bloodstream.
 

MigFon

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Hello peaters,
Asking for a a friend of mine.
She is going from doing a keto diet to introducing more carbs in her diet. On the Keto diet she feels amazing,
She was in ketosis many months last year and had zero sugar cravings (!), high energy, clarity of mind. As soon as she ups her carb intake and switched out from being fat burner to carb burner she got brain fog, tiredness and sugar cravings. She thought she might adjust but hasnt and has also put on weight.
What would be the easiest and simplest way to explain why this might happen? I think she has some sort of health issues (as why otherwise would anyone go ketosis). Generally she eats a WAPF sort of diet.

I am thinking she might go too fast with carb intake? INtroducing carbs is uncovering some health issues that were suppressed by the keto?

Please help me understand this too! So I can clear it up for her.
THank you and warm wishes,

When you go keto, the body develops a physiological type of insulin resistance.

When you switch back to carbs, it must be done slowly and progressively, so that the body has time to reajust the main fuel source being utilized and reverses the said state.

Too many carbs too soon will probably create the symptoms you are describing.

I would suggest tiny amounts of carbs at each meal and a concomitant reduction in fat, initially. You should then increase the amount of carbs by a tiny bit and reduce fat further every week or so.

I would expect an increase in body weight during the transition, because of an increased water retention and maybe some fat accumulation, but I think it will depend on how quickly you transition.
 
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Kartoffel

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Also worth noting, Kyle Mamounis, a Peat influenced biochemist, believes saturated fat can help pull endotoxin into the bloodstream.

Every fat can "pull" endotoxin into the bloodstream, what's his point? I don't like saying the science is settled, but on this issue it pretty much has been settled since A.A. Nanjii published his work. Subsequently, human studies have also demonstrated that highly saturated fat abolishes basically any reaction to endotoxin. You don't get cirrhosis or fibrosis from eating coconut oil, beef, or cocoa butter but from soy, corn, and fish oil. That has been proven over and over again. Anybody that claims that MUFA or even PUFA are healthier than SFA because they don't release endotoxin into the bloodstream doesn't know what he's talking about.
 

Fractality

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Every fat can "pull" endotoxin into the bloodstream, what's his point? I don't like saying the science is settled, but on this issue it pretty much has been settled since A.A. Nanjii published his work. Subsequently, human studies have also demonstrated that highly saturated fat abolishes basically any reaction to endotoxin. You don't get cirrhosis or fibrosis from eating coconut oil, beef, or cocoa butter but from soy, corn, and fish oil. That has been proven over and over again. Anybody that claims that MUFA or even PUFA are healthier than SFA because they don't release endotoxin into the bloodstream doesn't know what he's talking about.

Obviously this is an anecdotal n=1, but I do not feel endotoxin symptoms from a higher saturated fat intake (2 quarts of goat milk a day, plus grass fed beef, ice cream, etc)
 

Kartoffel

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Obviously this is an anecdotal n=1, but I do not feel endotoxin symptoms from a higher saturated fat intake (2 quarts of goat milk a day, plus grass fed beef, ice cream, etc)

That's because saturated fat supresses bacterial growth in the gut, and lowers the total amount of endotoxin in the whole digestive tract. Endotoxin can be higher in the postprandial blood because SFA kill bacteria and transport some LPS into the blood. That is not harmful, however, because the liver is protected by the SFA. Studies in rodents and humans show that fasting endotoxin, and endotoxin in the gut, is lower on a SFA diet compared to MUFA or PUFA.
 

Constatine

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A high fat diet is how scientists typically induce gut dysbiosis in experiments. Gut dysbiosis + lots of carbs can cause brain fog.
 

TeaRex14

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Every fat can "pull" endotoxin into the bloodstream, what's his point? I don't like saying the science is settled, but on this issue it pretty much has been settled since A.A. Nanjii published his work. Subsequently, human studies have also demonstrated that highly saturated fat abolishes basically any reaction to endotoxin. You don't get cirrhosis or fibrosis from eating coconut oil, beef, or cocoa butter but from soy, corn, and fish oil. That has been proven over and over again. Anybody that claims that MUFA or even PUFA are healthier than SFA because they don't release endotoxin into the bloodstream doesn't know what he's talking about.
His point was it's better to be a sugar burner than a fat burner. And that primarily burning fat on a high PUFA diet, seems to be the worst of all. The message I seemed to take away from it was he's pro sugar, anti PUFA, and anti SFA when SFAs are eaten in disproportionate amounts. Him explaining himself is better than I. The part about endotoxin was brief and he never expanded on the reason why, but this was in the actual comment section of the video. He replied to some person named presjo.
 

Blossom

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When you go keto, the body develops a physiological type of insulin resistance.

When you switch back to carbs, it must be done slowly and progressively, so that the body has time to reajust the main fuel source being utilized and reverses the said state.

Too many carbs too soon will probably create the symptoms you are describing.

I would suggest tiny amounts of carbs at each meal and a concomitant reduction in fat, initially. You should then increase the amount of carbs by a tiny bit and reduce fat further every week or so.

I would expect an increase in body weight during the transition, because of an increased water retention and maybe some fat accumulation, but I think it will depend on how quickly you transition.
Good points. If I had it to do over again I’d add back carbs slowly.
 
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For high carb diet to work right you have to go very low fat, under 20% of calories from fat. All fats will work against success here, for various reasons I find sfa a bit more problematic than mufa and pufa.

I doubt pufa with sufficient vitamin e is anti-thyroid. I posted a study the other day showing increased body temperatures in various mammals after injection of vitamin e, vitamin e needs pufa for the body to store proper levels.

Iodine in the thyroid is stored as an iodolipid, iodolipids are made from pufa and mufa, not sfa, because sfa is fully saturated it lacks the ability to bond with iodine. Iodine is essential for thyroid function, that is something that is not debatable, it is part of the structure of thyroid hormones. For iodine to convert to thyroid it must be oxidized, pufa and mufa enable oxidant reactions in the body to take place, not sfa. Because of this a completely PUFA depleted mammal would lack the ability to make sufficient thyroid. Regardless of a few references RP has made to studies where dogs or whatever were made pufa deficient and had warmer temperatures than before, my guess is they switched to using adrenaline for heat.

You know what is anti-thyroid? Eating a high fat diet, it lowers blood oxygen levels.

Important to note that most other mammals with healthy thyroid function get their iodine in the form of iodolipids or as part of a pufa rich diet. Likewise most mammals get their fat from PUFA and MUFA, with plenty of Vitamin E. Do wild animals with access to proper iodine suffering from hypothyroidism as chronically as most humans? No.

High SFA consumption may be unique to humans, most carnivores eat very lean prey and they do not guzzle down butter or coconut oil either.
 
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Cirion

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So I'm not gonna debate the whole thing about SFA because I don't think I buy it, but I will ask - if PUFA and MUFA are needed for thyroid, then how is eating low-fat gonna do that? BTW it's not possible to get pure SFA anyway - unless you exclusively eat coconut oil. Virtually all other SFA's have MUFA and PUFA in them (heck, even coconut oil has trace PUFA).

Also, and Chris MJ thinks SOME pufa are needed - it's impossible to get EFA deficient unless all you eat is coconut oil / hydrogenated coconut oil.

Other than that, I tend to think you are right overall - lower fat probably makes higher carb work better.
 

Kartoffel

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For high carb diet to work right you have to go very low fat, under 20% of calories from fat. All fats will work against success here, for various reasons I find sfa a bit more problematic than mufa and pufa.

I doubt pufa with sufficient vitamin e is anti-thyroid. I posted a study the other day showing increased body temperatures in various mammals after injection of vitamin e, vitamin e needs pufa for the body to store proper levels.

Iodine in the thyroid is stored as an iodolipid, iodolipids are made from pufa and mufa, not sfa, because sfa is fully saturated it lacks the ability to bond with iodine. Iodine is essential for thyroid function, that is something that is not debatable, it is part of the structure of thyroid hormones. For iodine to convert to thyroid it must be oxidized, pufa and mufa enable oxidant reactions in the body to take place, not sfa. Because of this a completely PUFA depleted mammal would lack the ability to make sufficient thyroid. Regardless of a few references RP has made to studies where dogs or whatever were made pufa deficient and had warmer temperatures than before, my guess is they switched to using adrenaline for heat.

You know what is anti-thyroid? Eating a high fat diet, it lowers blood oxygen levels.

Important to note that most other mammals with healthy thyroid function get their iodine in the form of iodolipids or as part of a pufa rich diet. Likewise most mammals get their fat from PUFA and MUFA, with plenty of Vitamin E. Do wild animals with access to proper iodine suffering from hypothyroidism as chronically as most humans? No.

High SFA consumption may be unique to humans, most carnivores eat very lean prey and they do not guzzle down butter or coconut oil either.

Wow, that is one big pile of made up facts. Again, your facts are not derived from anything in the real world, but your own dietary experience and philosophy. Typical predators (wolves, lions, cheetahs, etc) get close to 50% of calories from fat (probably more for northern predators), and at least the ones near the equator get far more SFA and MUFA than PUFA. There are studies showing that cheetahs in captivity get sick and die quickly when you feed them PUFA-rich muscle meat diets - when they changed their diets to include little PUFA and collagen, they thrive. Wild cheetahs have very little PUFA in their tissues.
Your argument that eating PUFA is neccessary because you need to oxidize iodine is ludicrous.

Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats. - PubMed - NCBI
How to Help Cheetahs Live Longer in Captivity | Science | Smithsonian
 
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So I'm not gonna debate the whole thing about SFA because I don't think I buy it, but I will ask - if PUFA and MUFA are needed for thyroid, then how is eating low-fat gonna do that? BTW it's not possible to get pure SFA anyway - unless you exclusively eat coconut oil. Virtually all other SFA's have MUFA and PUFA in them (heck, even coconut oil has trace PUFA).

Also, and Chris MJ thinks SOME pufa are needed - it's impossible to get EFA deficient unless all you eat is coconut oil / hydrogenated coconut oil.

Other than that, I tend to think you are right overall - lower fat probably makes higher carb work better.

It doesn’t take much. You would have to live in a lab or eat very strictly to not get enough pufa to make thyroid, restricting fat intake to 15% is not going to do that. My point really is that PUFA is intrinsic to the iodine thyroid conversion, so therefore arguing that it is anti-thyroid makes little sense. In excess PUFA could be a problem, but then why does high Vitamin E intake (which require pufa as well) raise body temperatures? I doubt PUFA, when delivered with sufficient E, like it is found in nature, is any more anti-thyroid than SFA, gram for gram.

The problem with PUFA is when people consume it via fried foods, or high heat cooking, or food which has been cooked and left to sit for days, this means the Vitamin E has been decreased extremely, while free radicals are increased. To make the argument against PUFA via cooking with oils, and apply it to nuts or grains is just plain stupid.

For instance:
Baked bread, internal temperature of bread is fairly low, reaching around 200 f, so the oils do not degrade very much. Similar scenario with boiled rice or other grains. Nuts are usually roasted for short times, “raw” nuts are sometimes pasturized for very short times - not enough to cause rancidity obviously.

Frying oil, easily goes rancid after several uses. Fry temperatures are typically twice that of other means, just below smoke point, the Vitamin E gets severely depleted. Advanced glycation products also are increased significantly vs other means (a problem with frying in coconut oil too).

An increase in fried PUFA foods is probably the major epidemiological factor behind the health problems associated with PUFA.
 
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