Boys, Don't Toast Your Balls

Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
Red light transmits heat. The original laser discoveries were an attempt to cut out cancer with 50mW visible red. (That laser was mis-calibrated down to 5mW). We're not even certain that heat is the cause. I doubt there is any pain from those lower doses.
Very well.
 

milk_lover

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
1,909
@Makrosky Thanks for your concerns! I meant to tell you about the red light and your test results in your own thread, but I forgot to mention it. Maybe as you said, that had something to do with your semen volume and some test results.. Maybe even it increased your estrogen as so many testasterone is being produced from the red light on the testicles. I never shine red light on them anymore because I get puffy nips right away after the session.
 

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
@Makrosky Thanks for your concerns! I meant to tell you about the red light and your test results in your own thread, but I forgot to mention it. Maybe as you said, that had something to do with your semen volume and some test results.. Maybe even it increased your estrogen as so many testasterone is being produced from the red light on the testicles. I never shine red light on them anymore because I get puffy nips right away after the session.
The redlight affecting semen volume maybe. But excess testosterone/estrogen I'm really sure it was because of the preg/dhea/k2 because I already had the redface/high hematocrits back in april.
So : You get bad results with the redlight on the testes? That aromatization of test into strogen is a real pain in the as*
 

milk_lover

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
1,909
The redlight affecting semen volume maybe. But excess testosterone/estrogen I'm really sure it was because of the preg/dhea/k2 because I already had the redface/high hematocrits back in april.
So : You get bad results with the redlight on the testes? That aromatization of test into strogen is a real pain in the as*
I got puffy nips when I applied the red light on the testicles. I don't know if it's because of aromatization or any other issue.. But my mood didn't get affected negatively.. I don't know what to make about the whole experience to be honest...
 

vulture

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
1,027
I do some nude sunbathing, about 3X to 5X week, about 15 min each side. Balls get hot for sure, as the whole body, I'm near the center of the earth...but also I read sunbathing your balls increases T.
I wonder if extra heat vs sun lighting is a good business with T :/
 

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
I do some nude sunbathing, about 3X to 5X week, about 15 min each side. Balls get hot for sure, as the whole body, I'm near the center of the earth...but also I read sunbathing your balls increases T.
I wonder if extra heat vs sun lighting is a good business with T :/
Some years I have spent the summer in the coast, sunbathing naked for maybe 4 hours daily during a whole month, with only positive effects. No negatives whatsoever. Red light on the testes feel different. Not bad either but different. Not the same thing IMHO.
 

Daniel11

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
558
Age
64
Location
USA
Some years I have spent the summer in the coast, sunbathing naked for maybe 4 hours daily during a whole month, with only positive effects. No negatives whatsoever. Red light on the testes feel different. Not bad either but different. Not the same thing IMHO.

You mentioned earlier you thought maybe the medicinal mushrooms i was taking were helping me do better with the red light on the testes, its interesting that research has shown mushrooms to be potent natural aromatase inhibitors.

Natural Products as Aromatase Inhibitors

Also this study may be relevant.

“Since the identification of thyroid hormone receptors on the testes, thyroid has been suggested to have a significant impact on the male reproductive tract, spermatogenesis, and male fertility.”

Thyroid, spermatogenesis, and male infertility. - PubMed - NCBI
 

vulture

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
1,027
Some years I have spent the summer in the coast, sunbathing naked for maybe 4 hours daily during a whole month, with only positive effects. No negatives whatsoever. Red light on the testes feel different. Not bad either but different. Not the same thing IMHO.
I haven't felt bad while sunbathing, I feel like a wild animal laying there, like a crocodile or something hahahaha
crocodile-safari-lodge.jpg
 

Daniel11

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
558
Age
64
Location
USA
and all intense light becomes hot when it focuses on your skin. The energy hits tissue, and longer wavelength photons are emitted and in turn absorbed, and still longer wavelength photons emitted...

These longer wavelengths are what we perceive as heat, they are in the infrared and longer wavelengths.

There is no way to get intense light without heat even if the LED source is pure light.

Pure light has no meaning, the heat is from the light unit itself not the emitted wavelengths, visible LED light in the 600 nm - 700 nm range used reasonably is not going to fry anyones balls, were not talking lasers here we are talking about LED lights...
 

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
You mentioned earlier you thought maybe the medicinal mushrooms i was taking were helping me do better with the red light on the testes, its interesting that research has shown mushrooms to be potent natural aromatase inhibitors.

Natural Products as Aromatase Inhibitors

Also this study may be relevant.

“Since the identification of thyroid hormone receptors on the testes, thyroid has been suggested to have a significant impact on the male reproductive tract, spermatogenesis, and male fertility.”

Thyroid, spermatogenesis, and male infertility. - PubMed - NCBI
Thanks for the info! Thyroid makes everything work as it's supposed to.
 

x-ray peat

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
2,343
Pure light has no meaning, the heat is from the light unit itself not the emitted wavelengths, visible LED light in the 600 nm - 700 nm range used reasonably is not going to fry anyones balls, were not talking lasers here we are talking about LED lights...

Didn't we just go through this? LED in the 600-700nm range if used inappropriately can cause massive tissue damage, i.e. fry your balls. A UV lamp also doesn't feel very hot but can give you one hell of a sunburn.
 
OP
ecstatichamster
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
Pure light has no meaning, the heat is from the light unit itself not the emitted wavelengths, visible LED light in the 600 nm - 700 nm range used reasonably is not going to fry anyones balls, were not talking lasers here we are talking about LED lights...

Incorrect. Radiant light is absorbed and creates heat.
 

Sucrates

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
619
Pure light has no meaning, the heat is from the light unit itself not the emitted wavelengths, visible LED light in the 600 nm - 700 nm range used reasonably is not going to fry anyones balls, were not talking lasers here we are talking about LED lights...

Red light does transmit heat, not as much as IR at the same intensity, but it's only a matter of intensity to get the same effects in a lot of instances.

Is there any reason to believe that this effect is limited to laser?

If anything an equivalent(?) laser might transmit less heat because the lasers often used in studies have very small apertures compared to the wide beam of many LED devices.

You would need to know all the variables for relevant the calculations or take measurements to know for sure. Preferably both.

Most of the effects in LLLT/PBM seem to transfer from laser to LED. At higher intensity (>200mW) you often see pulsed infrared. Pulsing was initially developed to reduce heat *there are other pulse utilities claimed*.

The reason higher power and IR are used in these cases is to penetrate deep into tissue or through bone. IR penetrates deeper, pulsing allows heat to dissipate. But red at some intensity would cause the same heat problems and require pulsing.

You really need to question multiple minute dosing in hundreds of milliwatts on sensitive tissues, regardless of whether it's red or infrared, especially given the studies posted in this thread.
 

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
I asked the Red Light Man, that's what he said :

Joe says:

If 12 J/cm2 of laser light damaged rat testicles, maybe something like 4000J/cm2 would damage human testes – a dose that would take months continuously to achieve.

I am not sure of the average rat testicle weight compared to humans, but we definitely have larger gonads. So you can’t use a rat dose and make conclusions about humans. It’s like saying a 300 calorie diet makes rats obese, therefore us humans should eat less than 300.

This type of study would be worrying if rats were the same size as humans, but they’re not. I guess its not obvious to you, but we humans are larger than rats and require larger doses of light (or drugs, supplements, calories, etc). A lethal dose of caffeine for a rat is just a normal cup of coffee for us. I remember once seeing a study with rats on aspirin – they basically pumped the rats stomach completely full of aspirin, and then claimed that relatively low doses (low doses by human standards) of aspirin caused stomach damage.

These rats weigh 200g, and human males weigh about 85kg on average, so we are over 400 times heavier. We therefore need much higher doses of light relatively. Just as an elephant or horse would again require an even larger dose than humans. Same as with drugs.

The issue in the study is likely tissue heating. The 50mW lasers are burning the rat testicles and denaturing cellular enzymes/proteins etc. Not an issue you would get if using an LED light on humans at 18J/cm2 for example. It’s just not possible to ever cause serious thermal damage with an appropriate red LED light.
There are also various issues with the study. They seem to conflate Joules with Joules/cm2, don’t mention the power density (mW/cm2), etc. The laser could be focused to a tiny point of 5000mW/cm2+ intensity light for all we know.
Poor rats, getting their balls burned by a laser isn’t a good way to go.
 

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
I'm not sure I buy his theory. Are human cells the same size as rat cells ? We could use an MD knowledge now :)
 

Sucrates

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
619
I'm not sure I buy his theory. Are human cells the same size as rat cells ? We could use an MD knowledge now :)

He's correct about the problems with metrics and recording. I think he's making a number of assumptions that may or may not be correct though. One possible non-heat mechanism is ROS. LLLT modulates ROS. ROS can trigger microhemmorage, at least in other tissues (rodent cerebral amyloid angiopathy model foe example). That's a wild speculation, but it seems that there are a lot of unknowns here.
 

x-ray peat

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
2,343
I asked the Red Light Man, that's what he said :

Joe says:

If 12 J/cm2 of laser light damaged rat testicles, maybe something like 4000J/cm2 would damage human testes – a dose that would take months continuously to achieve.

I am not sure of the average rat testicle weight compared to humans, but we definitely have larger gonads. So you can’t use a rat dose and make conclusions about humans. It’s like saying a 300 calorie diet makes rats obese, therefore us humans should eat less than 300.

This type of study would be worrying if rats were the same size as humans, but they’re not. I guess its not obvious to you, but we humans are larger than rats and require larger doses of light (or drugs, supplements, calories, etc). A lethal dose of caffeine for a rat is just a normal cup of coffee for us. I remember once seeing a study with rats on aspirin – they basically pumped the rats stomach completely full of aspirin, and then claimed that relatively low doses (low doses by human standards) of aspirin caused stomach damage.

These rats weigh 200g, and human males weigh about 85kg on average, so we are over 400 times heavier. We therefore need much higher doses of light relatively. Just as an elephant or horse would again require an even larger dose than humans. Same as with drugs.

The issue in the study is likely tissue heating. The 50mW lasers are burning the rat testicles and denaturing cellular enzymes/proteins etc. Not an issue you would get if using an LED light on humans at 18J/cm2 for example. It’s just not possible to ever cause serious thermal damage with an appropriate red LED light.
There are also various issues with the study. They seem to conflate Joules with Joules/cm2, don’t mention the power density (mW/cm2), etc. The laser could be focused to a tiny point of 5000mW/cm2+ intensity light for all we know.
Poor rats, getting their balls burned by a laser isn’t a good way to go.
There are a lot of dangerous ideas in the above. For one anyone applying 4000j/cm2 to any part of their body would end up with some truly fried tissue.
The divisor (cm-2) already takes into account the difference in size between humans and rats as it is a size dependent dose. As @Makrosky alludes to, the individual cells getting fried don't care if they are part of a 1oz ball sack or a 1 gram ball sack; they are still the same size cells and getting wacked with the the same dose.

Now if we were talking about total Joules of energy each organism could handle then you would need to adjust the numbers from rats to humans but this dose would need to be spread all over the body and not just in one spot.
 
Last edited:

Makrosky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
3,982
There are a lot of dangerous ideas in the above. For one anyone applying 4000j/cm2 to any part of their body would end up with some truly fried tissue.
The divisor (cm-2) already takes into account the difference in size between humans and rats as it is a size dependent dose. As @Makrosky alludes to, the individual cells getting fried don't care if they are part of a 1oz ball sack or a 1 gram ball sack; they are still the same size cells and getting wacked with the the same dose.

Now if we were talking about total Joules of energy each organism could handle then you would need to adjust the numbers from rats to humans but this dose would need to be spread all over the body and not just in one spot.
Good points. More in favour of not using red light on the balls until we know more. Btw I have contacted the paper on lllt for thyroid authors to ask about the soreness feeling. I hope they can give us some clues.
 

Daniel11

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
558
Age
64
Location
USA
Good points. More in favour of not using red light on the balls until we know more. Btw I have contacted the paper on lllt for thyroid authors to ask about the soreness feeling. I hope they can give us some clues.

I agree i think you all should stop shining light on your testes until you understand and feel comfortable knowing what your doing, your sure not going to help yourself if you think your hurting yourself.

The best research i can give you personally is that me and several male friends have been using the light on our testes for many months, me personally almost a year, at first i was doing couple times a week, then for few months did almost every day, using the Red Light Device Mini placed on the skin or couple inches away for 4-8 min sessions. I then did it almost every day for a few months, now 1-3 times a week for 3-4 min sessions. I have had no issues except more vitality, my balls are happy.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom