Boys, Don't Toast Your Balls

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I feel its important to stress again the importance of not mixing light bulb/heat lamp therapy with LED photobiomodulation.

Incandescent light bulbs are great for indoor lighting, and using bright incandescent light bulbs near the body will warm you up and offer some benefits, but it is still mostly infrared light. Incandescent light bulbs emit 10% visible light and 90% infrared light, as long as the lights/heat lamp are kept 3-4 feet from the body they are safe, they offer thermal heat and the longer wavelengths of the infrared spectrum are absorb readily by water so your tissue will warm up some, this is exactly why i feel infrared wavelengths should not be used in photobiomodulation where the strong focused LED light is held close to the body.

“A heat lamp is an incandescent light bulb that is used for the principal purpose of creating heat. The spectrum of black body radiation emitted by the lamp is shifted to produce more infrared light. Many heat lamps include a red filter to minimize the amount of visible light emitted. Heat lamps often include an internal reflector.”

In photobiomodulation the shorter wavelengths of orange/red spectrums are not absorbed well by water molecules so they are much more bioactive, the light photons make it in to the cells.
A simple sheet of water (e.g. some pyrex pan filled with water) will block the infrared from an incandescent, and allow you to keep it much closer to the body.
 

tara

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Lets try not to mix up different types of light therapy, the bright incandescent and heat lamps can be good but they are not doing the same thing as photobiomodulation, holding the spectrum tuned LED lights close to your body has a positive effect on mitochondrial functioning, too much or too little is not effective, each person needs to learn more about this, not just feed each others fears, visible spectrum orange /red 600 nm to 700 nm LED lights are very safe to experiment with.
My caution related to the lamps that put out significant heat - incandescents, heat lamps, infrared LEDs - obvious overheating risk. I'm less knowledgable about the visible spectrum in that area.
 

x-ray peat

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My caution related to the lamps that put out significant heat - incandescents, heat lamps, infrared LEDs - obvious overheating risk. I'm less knowledgable about the visible spectrum in that area.
Your knowledge about balls more than makes up for that:)
 
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ecstatichamster
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After hearing the feed back using light on the testes i think a more reasonable approach would be to start with the light 4"- 6" from testes, for 3-8 min, less time or much farther away is going to quickly lose effectiveness. If feels ok do every other day for a while then decide if it feels good to do everyday, a person on another thread reported very good results holding light 6" from testes, and if you really don't feel comfortable then for sure don't do photobiomodulation on your testes. The open eyes i find to be the most helpful along with areas on the abdomen.

I regards to heat on the testes i posted before my thoughts that there is limits of course, but some of the longest living cultures on the planet soak frequently in hot water 104-112 degrees, 40-44 celsius. I have visited communities of people living near natural hot springs they soak in almost every day from when young, they are the most healthy people in their regions.

Nice title for the thread, I love you ecstatichamster but you are a rabble-rouser!

thank you sir!

It's a fine line as usual between perceiving what is happening, and thinking about what *should* happen, and acting on that!

But I thank you for your work and your reports. It could possibly be that I have so much whole body exposure that the testicular exposure put me on the wrong side of the U or J shaped curve...
 

x-ray peat

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I think its's very important to determine the power density coming out of your specific light source and then doing the calculations to figure out how much exposure time is optimal. Before I managed to do that I was consistently overdosing myself but would never have known because with the exception of when I was shining the light on my head, I wouldn't feel any different regardless of exposure time.

resonantfm and valtsu have good websites that go into the details of determining dose. just google those names
this thread may help if you have the 660 nm grow light.
Proper Dosage For ABI 12W Deep Red 660nm LED
 
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ecstatichamster
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and all intense light becomes hot when it focuses on your skin. The energy hits tissue, and longer wavelength photons are emitted and in turn absorbed, and still longer wavelength photons emitted...

These longer wavelengths are what we perceive as heat, they are in the infrared and longer wavelengths.

There is no way to get intense light without heat even if the LED source is pure light.
 

Daniel11

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With the visible light spectrum LED bulbs as with the red light device mini, the heat your feeling is the thermal heat created in the light device itself by its power consumption, its not from the visible light wavelengths interacting with your body. So just hold the light back farther until the heat from the light unit feels comfortable to you.
 

x-ray peat

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With the visible light spectrum LED bulbs as with the red light device mini, the heat your feeling is the thermal heat created in the light device itself by its power consumption, its not from the visible light wavelengths interacting with your body. So just hold the light back farther until the heat from the light unit feels comfortable to you.
to clarify it's not just the heat though that is dangerous. too much red light even if cool can still "fry" your balls
 

Daniel11

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to clarify it's not just the heat though that is dangerous. too much red light even if cool can still "fry" your balls

I really don't think fry is the appropriate description, its more about biphasic dose response, and yes we have talked about the need for limits and balance many times, if you drink to much water it will make you sick if you don't drink enough water your body can not function properly, same with food, air, light... The 3-10 min sessions i always suggest and research has shown for the visible wavelengths of the red light device mini is well within safe limits.

Its a beautiful Saturday by me, I'm going outside to enjoy the sunlight maybe even do some sun gazing.
 

x-ray peat

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I really don't think fry is the appropriate description, its more about biphasic dose response, and yes we have talked about the need for limits and balance many times, if you drink to much water it will make you sick if you don't drink enough water your body can not function properly, same with food, air, light... The 3-10 min sessions i always suggest and research has shown for the visible wavelengths of the red light device mini is well within safe limits.

Its a beautiful Saturday by me, I'm going outside to enjoy the sunlight maybe even do some sun gazing.
Yes we have talked generally about the need for limits and balance but then people give out ill informed recommendations on what those limits should be. A general time suggestion of 3-10 minutes is not helpful nor safe given that the power density of many lights varies so dramatically and people use them at different distances. In a previous post you suggested 1) that red light is perfectly safe to experiment with (not true, you need to know what you are doing) and 2) that "reasonable approach would be to start with the light 4"- 6" from testes, for 3-8 min." This can be very dangerous advice, and yes can easily "fry" your balls depending on what light you are using. Also ten minutes at anything under 2 feet with my led would be way too much as well.

I dont want to make this too complicated but I think it's important that we not give out generic advice about dosing when the proper dose can only be determined based on the light being used and the distance they plan to use it from.

and FWIW I dont think sungazing is such a great idea either but I too am about to go outside and get some good wavelengths as well
 
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Makrosky

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Also, there's another Rat study using a 660nm 50mW laser for 10 seconds (4J/cm2) and 30 seconds (12J/cm2) per day over 5 days. Testosterone and LH were tested.

No significant changes in Test. LH lowered in 12/jcm2 group:
Tpo6FfN.png



And damage among tissue in the 12J/cm2 group:
Kb20OUC.png




http://www.journalijar.com/uploads/814_IJAR-4560.pdf

For those leaning on that 200mW rat study to justify high doses of 660nm.

These are very powerful lasers, however, and damage could be from overheating. How does that explain the damage in this study when a dose 30x greater in the 200mW study had no tissue change?
Thank you very much for posting this!!!

That's scary. It was a very low dose and it produced very negative effects. I think we should make sure everyone who uses lights on the testes sees this : @Serotoninja @Constatine @Wagner83 @ecstatichamster @Daniel11 @johnsmith @charlie @Luckytype @MyUsernameHere @zes @TheDrumGuy @milk_lover @sladerunner69

Maybe that's why I got the diminished semen volume thing... I think it started around the same time I was playing with the light in the testes. I maybe did it 3-8 times can't remember. For a few minutes each. I would be REALLY CAREFUL putting light on the testes. Be conservative guys. Better safe than sorry with your testes.
 

Daniel11

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I think that you are missing my point. A general time suggestion of 3-10 minutes is not helpful nor safe given that the power density of many lights varies so dramatically and people use them at different distances. I am suggesting that everyone needs to determine the appropriate time based on the light that they are using and the distance they plan to use it from. Ten minutes at anything under 2 feet with my led would be way too much.

and FWIW I dont think sungazing is such a great idea either but I too am about to go outside and get some good wavelengths as well

Yes good point thats why i always mention the light i use and recommend, the "red light device mini" Red Light Device Mini - Red Light Man If you are using another light then you need to learn what is best distance and timing.

Sun gazing needs to be learned properly before trying, i have been doing for many years, my eyes are fine and i always feel great after, using the red light device mini for light gazing inside is very safe and offers similar and even more benefits to sun gazing.

Feasting on Sunshine
 

Makrosky

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I really don't think fry is the appropriate description, its more about biphasic dose response, and yes we have talked about the need for limits and balance many times, if you drink to much water it will make you sick if you don't drink enough water your body can not function properly, same with food, air, light... The 3-10 min sessions i always suggest and research has shown for the visible wavelengths of the red light device mini is well within safe limits.

Its a beautiful Saturday by me, I'm going outside to enjoy the sunlight maybe even do some sun gazing.
I think you are underestimating the dangers. This is not about the biphasic response. You see there was histopathological damage in the tissues, right ? So yes, "fry" is a right word for it. I hope you don't get offended by this but you should reconsider liberally recommending people using the light in the testes until there's more info. We're dealing with possible tissue damage here, it's not a joke.
 

Daniel11

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Thank you very much for posting this!!!

That's scary. It was a very low dose and it produced very negative effects. I think we should make sure everyone who uses lights on the testes sees this : @Serotoninja @Constatine @Wagner83 @ecstatichamster @Daniel11 @johnsmith @charlie @Luckytype @MyUsernameHere @zes @TheDrumGuy @milk_lover @sladerunner69

Maybe that's why I got the diminished semen volume thing... I think it started around the same time I was playing with the light in the testes. I maybe did it 3-8 times can't remember. For a few minutes each. I would be REALLY CAREFUL putting light on the testes. Be conservative guys. Better safe than sorry with your testes.

I have been shining light on my testes off and on for several months and feel great, so do many others i know, if you don't like or feel comfortable then don't do it, its not a absolute necessity for healing your self, through the eyes is more important.

Red Light ‘Triples Testicle Function’ Studies Show - Red Light Man
 

Makrosky

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I have been shining light on my testes off and on for several months and feel great, so do many others i know, if you don't like or feel comfortable then don't do it, its not a absolute necessity for healing your self, through the eyes is more important.

Red Light ‘Triples Testicle Function’ Studies Show - Red Light Man

Daniel, just in case : I don't have anything against you. I like reading your posts. All I'm saying is that you should be very careful liberally recommending the light on the testes to other members. We need more clarification. It is not about me. It is about the others which won't read this study. The fact that it does good to you doesn't mean it can fry others balls. You consume a lot of medicinal mushrooms, etc. which are very protective.

For instance : The red light mini at 4 inches is 100mW. For 3 minutes that is a 18J/cm^2 dose. The study posted showed damage at 12J/cm^2 dose.

I'm strictly talking about light on the testes, not eyes or thyroid.

There's a very big difference about giving advice and causing you some mineral/vitamin/hormonal imbalance and doing tissue damage. We need more clarification. Does anyone want to write Ray about this ?
 

TripleOG

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Thank you very much for posting this!!!

That's scary. It was a very low dose and it produced very negative effects. I think we should make sure everyone who uses lights on the testes sees this : @Serotoninja @Constatine @Wagner83 @ecstatichamster @Daniel11 @johnsmith @charlie @Luckytype @MyUsernameHere @zes @TheDrumGuy @milk_lover @sladerunner69

Maybe that's why I got the diminished semen volume thing... I think it started around the same time I was playing with the light in the testes. I maybe did it 3-8 times can't remember. For a few minutes each. I would be REALLY CAREFUL putting light on the testes. Be conservative guys. Better safe than sorry with your testes.

Keep in mind the study is using lasers powerful enough to burn through bags and pop balloons in seconds. :extinguishflame

LEDs use power densities (mW/cm2) mostly, but these lasers cover a small fraction of 1cm2. An LED providing 50mW over 1cm2 is way less intense than a 50mW laser covering 1/8 cm2. Also lasers are said to penetrate deeper. It does raise the question if total Joules are comparable between lasers and LED treatments. Also, does the total time to reach target Joules affect the treatment outcome? Is 12J over 3 minutes safer that 12J in 30 seconds? Etc. Etc. @Sucrates and his site has providing great insight regarding this.

With that said, I agree, starting low is always best. When I first experimented with red light on testicle I would get soreness within 30 seconds if the light was too close. I would also get soreness if shining the light for too long at any distance. So far I've found the parameters I posted earlier (~40mW/cm2 for 3-5 minutes) EOD most beneficial for me. That's about 7-12J total. I also angle the LED so the underside is also targeted in an attempt to show the prostate some love. :ss
 
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Indeed we are given such a sensitive and practical metric, which is soreness. Why bother with studies and calculations? You may try to block the heat component to see if it is that rather than the light itself, but still going by soreness. And this probably works well for the whole body.
 

Makrosky

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Indeed we are given such a sensitive and practical metric, which is soreness. Why bother with studies and calculations? You may try to block the heat component to see if it is that rather than the light itself, but still going by soreness. And this probably works well for the whole body.
Why are you so sure about that? You can have microhemorrages in different parts of the body without any kind of pain or soreness.
 

Sucrates

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Indeed we are given such a sensitive and practical metric, which is soreness. Why bother with studies and calculations? You may try to block the heat component to see if it is that rather than the light itself, but still going by soreness. And this probably works well for the whole body.


Red light transmits heat. The original laser discoveries were an attempt to cut out cancer with 50mW visible red. (That laser was mis-calibrated down to 5mW). We're not even certain that heat is the cause. I doubt there is any pain from those lower doses.
 

Daniel11

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Daniel, just in case : I don't have anything against you. I like reading your posts. All I'm saying is that you should be very careful liberally recommending the light on the testes to other members. We need more clarification. It is not about me. It is about the others which won't read this study. The fact that it does good to you doesn't mean it can fry others balls. You consume a lot of medicinal mushrooms, etc. which are very protective.

For instance : The red light mini at 4 inches is 100mW. For 3 minutes that is a 18J/cm^2 dose. The study posted showed damage at 12J/cm^2 dose.

I'm strictly talking about light on the testes, not eyes or thyroid.

There's a very big difference about giving advice and causing you some mineral/vitamin/hormonal imbalance and doing tissue damage. We need more clarification. Does anyone want to write Ray about this ?

Its all good, i like your posts and wisdom also, this is what the forum is for, the best scientific discoveries are born from controversy, and i will be more thoughtful in the future how i present info about photobiomodulation for the testes, thank you!
 

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