Both "long" COVID-19 and CFS are likely caused by hypometabolism

[jay123]

Also crashing renal potassium and increasing iron binding in tissues. If something is going to be targeted to regulate Vitamin D, safest seems potassium and magnesium. And obviously getting vitamin D in food and sun. Of note, they don't seem to call out any supplement like they call out vitamin D, though they are overall supplement-free in the treatment process.

I see. Thank you for the info!

 

[Jam]

...

Interesting how they quote Ray Peat and still manage to get it completely wrong. What a load of bollox.

 

[Peatogenic]

Interesting how they quote Ray Peat and still manage to get it completely wrong. What a load of bollox.

I appreciate the counterclaim. I hadn't thought about that. I'll start taking high dose vitamin D now.

 

[Jam]

I appreciate the counterclaim. I hadn't thought about that. I'll start taking high dose vitamin D now.

No counterclaim required, I'm not Ray Peat's mouthpiece. I highly suggest listening to the following:

Vitamin D, Calcium and mineral metabolism with Dr Ray Peat and Kate Deering

We’ve had Dr. Peat on the podcast before, and it actually ended up being our most downloaded WinAtLife podcast. So, we brought him back again to discuss vitamin D, calcium and mineral metabolism. There’s so much good information in this one! Dr. Peat offers up a lot of clarity when it comes to...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Jam]

What does interest me in those screenshots is the claim that "Vitamin D suppresses hepcidin". In Peat's July 2021 newsletter, he specifically writes, and I quote:

Another type of anti-microbial peptide (the
cathelicidins and hepcidin) is able to kill
viruses and bacteria directly, without binding
iron. Hepcidin was discovered in the urine,
and it’s important for preventing bladder
infections. Synthesis of the cathelicidins is
dependent on vitamin D.

One of the ways in which estrogen
increases iron retention is by inhibiting the
formation of hepcidin (Balbouj, et al., 2018),
since one of hepcidin’s main functions is to
limit the absorption of iron from the intestine,
and to inhibit its release into the bloodstream.
Progesterone increases the synthesis of
hepcidin (Xiang, et al., 2016).

After a brief search. it seems that D3 does indeed inhibit hepcidin, and thus increases iron absorption. Might be worthwhile contacting Ray via email to ask for further elucidations on the subject of Vitamin D and hepcidin.

 

[Dr. B]

What does interest me in those screenshots is the claim that "Vitamin D suppresses hepcidin". In Peat's July 2021 newsletter, he specifically writes, and I quote:



After a brief search. it seems that D3 does indeed inhibit hepcidin, and thus increases iron absorption. Might be worthwhile contacting Ray via email to ask for further elucidations on the subject of Vitamin D and hepcidin.

thats concerning, but maybe on a mostly milk, low iron diet, it may be more tolerable

Also crashing renal potassium and increasing iron binding in tissues. If something is going to be targeted to regulate Vitamin D, safest seems potassium and magnesium. And obviously getting vitamin D in food and sun. Of note, they don't seem to call out any supplement like they call out vitamin D, though they are overall supplement-free in the treatment process.

what if you use d3 conservatively like 5000 to 10000 IU per day

i asked Peat about d3 depleting magnesium and potassium he doesnt think so, he thinks d3 improves assimilation of magnesium supporting thyroid hormones effect

is the anti hepcidin effect due to elevated calcium, thus calcium supplements would cause it, or just d3 excess

wouldnt d3 lower prolactin thanks to its calcium boosting effect, which supplementing magnesium would interfere with

 

[mostlylurking]

A good study that examines the remarkable parallels between the so-called "long" COVID-19 (i.e. chronic display of symptoms associated with COVID-19) and the (in)famous chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Namely, increases inflammation, excessive glycolysis, suppressed mitochondrial function and decreased synthesis of ATP. Despite all of these known signs of both pathologies, no study so-far (including the new one below) has suggested treatments with thyroid or other pro-metabolic therapies.

This list of symptoms match the symptoms for thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. CFS is massively improved via high dose thiamine. This makes me wonder if the aftermath of covid (long haul covid) is caused by a functional blockage of thiamine.

Lots of thought provoking articles here: You searched for covid - Hormones Matter

Although I detect massively misguided confusion in the well meaning articles about hormones on the HormonesMatter site, the articles on thiamine are very good and have helped me a lot. They promote TTFD; I can't tolerate that type so I use old fashioned thiamine hcl.

The only thing they show is how much TBG you produce, which is the protein that carries the thyroid hormones in the blood. High free T3 means low TBG, which is not a good sign as it implies hypothyroidism and potentially liver issues as well as that protein is produced by liver.

Thank you for this information. When I was so sick because of a thiamine functional blockage last fall, my free T3 went through the roof while at the same time I had severe hypothyroid symptoms. I wonder if my lack of thiamine/functional blockage caused the TBG to fail/be reduced? I was diagnosed via MRI with early stage fatty liver, although the nutcase doctor didn't bother to order any blood work.

Seven years of Peating and still have significant CFS/ME. Waking temp around 98.0 and pulse 78-80. Rises to 98.6 & 85 in the afternoon. Vitamin D 5000 units, 1.0 tablet cynomel and 0.75 tab cynoplus, aspirin. TSH was around <0.1 last I checked.

Gelatin, milk, cheese, meat, OJ, fruit, potatoes, shellfish, liver, kale broth. Sun and light; in a warm, sunny climate. Experimented with all the Peaty supplements.

Should be the picture of health. Instead I'm overweight and have crippling fatigue to where I can barely leave the house.

"...overweight and having crippling fatigue" are symptoms of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. Perhaps you might find it helpful to research thiamine?

Although Ray Peat does not focus a lot on thiamine, he has mentioned its importance several times. Here is a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

 

[Jam]

thats concerning, but maybe on a mostly milk, low iron diet, it may be more tolerable

Good point.

what if you use d3 conservatively like 5000 to 10000 IU per day

i asked Peat about d3 depleting magnesium and potassium he doesnt think so, he thinks d3 improves assimilation of magnesium supporting thyroid hormones effect

is the anti hepcidin effect due to elevated calcium, thus calcium supplements would cause it, or just d3 excess

wouldnt d3 lower prolactin thanks to its calcium boosting effect, which supplementing magnesium would interfere with

The more I research Vitamin D and hepcidin, the more it seems like high hepcidin may not be such a good thing.

The Association between Iron and Vitamin D Status in Female Elite Athletes

Vitamin D may influence iron metabolism and erythropoiesis, whereas iron is essential for vitamin D synthesis. We examined whether vitamin D deficiencies (VDD) are associated with reduced iron status and whether progressive iron deficiency (ID) is accompanied ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"With gradual recognition of the role of vitamin D deficiency in many diseases [4], the relationship between vitamin D and iron status has also begun to be explored [1]. It has been demonstrated that a deficit of vitamin D increases the risk of many hematological disorders and iron metabolism disturbances [26,44], which was visible, especially in adults with different illnesses [26]. One reason for this is the pro-inflammatory effects of a vitamin D deficit, which eventually leads to an increase in hepcidin production, via stimulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines [31] and activation of the JAK-STAT3 pathway [44]. Sun et al. [34] pointed out that vitamin D can also downregulate hepcidin transcription, although the mechanism by which this occurs is unknown. High hepcidin levels, in turn, may favor sequestration of iron in macrophages and hepatocytes, which promotes the development of inflammatory anemia [32]. This anti-inflammatory effect of vitamin D is confirmed by studies pointing to the reduction in hepcidin levels and increase in 25(OH)D concentration in vitamin D deficient subjects after supplementation with this vitamin [33]."

 

[DonLore]

I am not sure but

This list of symptoms match the symptoms for thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. CFS is massively improved via high dose thiamine. This makes me wonder if the aftermath of covid (long haul covid) is caused by a functional blockage of thiamine.

Lots of thought provoking articles here: You searched for covid - Hormones Matter

Although I detect massively misguided confusion in the well meaning articles about hormones on the HormonesMatter site, the articles on thiamine are very good and have helped me a lot. They promote TTFD; I can't tolerate that type so I use old fashioned thiamine hcl.

Thank you for this information. When I was so sick because of a thiamine functional blockage last fall, my free T3 went through the roof while at the same time I had severe hypothyroid symptoms. I wonder if my lack of thiamine/functional blockage caused the TBG to fail/be reduced? I was diagnosed via MRI with early stage fatty liver, although the nutcase doctor didn't bother to order any blood work.

"...overweight and having crippling fatigue" are symptoms of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage. Perhaps you might find it helpful to research thiamine?

Although Ray Peat does not focus a lot on thiamine, he has mentioned its importance several times. Here is a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

I also suspect something might be wrong with my thiamine function, as I have experienced a lot of the deficiency symptons after covid/whtever infection I had last year

 

[Jam]

It seems to me that iron is used up by conversion of d3 to its metabolites. So it makes sense that high doses of d3 would inhibit hepcidin in order to get a little more iron required for its conversion to metabolites. The amount of inhibition may be dynamic, based on current iron status.

"Iron, as a component of the cytochrome P450 monooxygenase superfamily, participates in synthesis of the active form of vitamin D3, not only in the last stage of its bioactivation from 25(OH)D to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (25-hydroxyvitamin D 1-α-hydroxylase—CYP27B1), but also in the earlier stage in which cholecalciferol is converted to 25(OH)D (25-hydroxylase—CYP2R1) [38,53]. Therefore, as a consequence of iron deficiency, activity of these iron-containing enzymes may be lowered, and hence, a deficit in vitamin D3 may occur. This important role of iron in the synthesis of vitamin D was clearly confirmed by Katsumata et al. [39], who reported that dietary iron deficiency in rats caused diminished 1α-hydroxylase activity, leading to a decrease in serum 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 concentration. The mentioned findings may explain why, in an earlier study, Heldenberg et al. [36] showed that a single intramuscular injection of iron in infants with iron deficiency anemia resulted in an increase in 25(OH)D concentration."

 

[mostlylurking]

I am not sure but

I also suspect something might be wrong with my thiamine function, as I have experienced a lot of the deficiency symptons after covid/whtever infection I had last year

Did you take any antibiotics for the infection?

 

[mostlylurking]

I am not sure but

I also suspect something might be wrong with my thiamine function, as I have experienced a lot of the deficiency symptons after covid/whtever infection I had last year

I found EONutrition videos on thiamine very helpful and informative: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ Scroll down on their home page and watch the interview of Dr. Chandler Marrs. Her website is Hormones Mattter. The search engine there is helpful.

 

[DonLore]

Did you take any antibiotics for the infection?

No, but I did take a short course of antibiotics afterwards since Peat recommends it often. Now I think antibiotics should be last resource since they can destroy gut microbiota. I dont remember if I started to have more problems afterwards, probably no change

 

[mostlylurking]

No, but I did take a short course of antibiotics afterwards since Peat recommends it often. Now I think antibiotics should be last resource since they can destroy gut microbiota. I dont remember if I started to have more problems afterwards, probably no change

Do you remember which one you took?

 

[RealNeat]

No counterclaim required, I'm not Ray Peat's mouthpiece. I highly suggest listening to the following:

Vitamin D, Calcium and mineral metabolism with Dr Ray Peat and Kate Deering

We’ve had Dr. Peat on the podcast before, and it actually ended up being our most downloaded WinAtLife podcast. So, we brought him back again to discuss vitamin D, calcium and mineral metabolism. There’s so much good information in this one! Dr. Peat offers up a lot of clarity when it comes to...

raypeatforum.com

Yes good share. I know Josh is very influenced by Morley Robbins who says things that are congruent with Ray but also very off. When Ray summarizes the bioenergetics of vitamin D in that podcast it really puts all the misinformation into context. Yet people still cling to it, the most annoying is the attempt to "activate" "storage" D. The words are misleading so the conclusions are too. This podcast really destroys those loose arguments. Ray ties it all together nicely as usual.

 

[DonLore]

Do you remember which one you took?

I think it was doxycycline. It seems it can also block thiamine absorption but can it block thiamine function?

 

[Dr. B]

I think it was doxycycline. It seems it can also block thiamine absorption but can it block thiamine function?

did you gain weight off doxycycline? i had it prescribed in highschool for acne... put on around 50 pounds in a year from using it. seriously messes with something in the body.

 

[DonLore]

I didnt gain weight. But for one year I have had GI issues, liver issues etc so maybe I already got thiamine deficiency before doxy. Oh and I have had antibiotics years ago also, maybe I have been destroying my thiamine function long ago and didnt even know it. I will take TTFD with magnesium for 2 weeks now, and report if it helps

 

[mostlylurking]

I think it was doxycycline. It seems it can also block thiamine absorption but can it block thiamine function?

I don't know if it can block thiamine function. But blocking thiamine absorption is a real problem; it can come from killing off the gut bacteria and I think could also some damage to the gut lining? My point is that I think this change in the gut can be lingering. Taking thiamine and magnesium can help repair the gut. Daily raw carrot also helps a lot.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Update: I reset my body temp and I am feeling good again. Long covid might just be chronic low body temperature.