Both Conservatives And Liberals Are Narcissistic, Former Are Entitled Latter Are Insecure

[pimpnamedraypeat]

If they are intra-social predators, doesn't that imply they are sociopathic too?

Yes but there's nothing wrong with them like there is with malignant narcissists. Psychopaths are perfectly healthy. A lot of species are polymorphic in this way. Most individuals are normal but certain ones will take on a "sociopathic" form so as to cannibalize on the normies. Sometimes literally:

Spadefoot cannibal tadpole munching on normal tadpoal

Among spadefoot toads some tadpoles become cannibals while the rest eat algae (http://www.centre.edu/web/news…..storz.html). If there is enough food and the water doesn’t dry up (which is the norm) the normals keep their numbers up and things are more or less in balance. If the ponds dry too quickly then the faster growing cannibals are much more likely to survive to adulthood and reproduce. If the proportion tips in favor of the cannibals they eventually have to turn on themselves and the population crashes. In the rebuild, the normals again come to the fore. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

I think this is a good study which shows that both political "camps" have their own peculiarities and limitations. As such, we should probably keep these findings in mind when evaluating politicians or even just people we interact with on a daily basis. The study called found liberals scoring high on "exhibitionism", but according to the DSM guidelines those are also signs of insecurity. I am not a fan of either camp, so I am glad that at least one study is willing to point out that both sides can be full of it, when it comes to politics. The one thing that I disagree on with the study is that narcissism is part of a "normal" people's persona. In my experience, the higher the narcissism the more hypothyroid/hypometabolic the person is. So it is certainly not something "normal" for a healthy adult to exhibit. For example, it is well known among psychologists and psychiatrists that narcissism is virtually non-existent in children. Its development happens to coincide with onset of puberty, which (as Peat mentioned) is when metabolism takes the first major dive. As an additional confirmation, I know several people who are high in the pecking order (e.g. big company executives) and were extremely narcissistic and even psychopathic in the past. After beginning to use cyproheptadine or ondansetron on a regular basis these people changed so dramatically that they no longer fit the requirements for executives and two of them left their C-level positions to seek their passion elsewhere. One of them told me a month ago that he "does not feel an interest any more in making a ton of money and controlling other people's lives". Not bad for a few month's worth of antiserotonin regimen

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajps.12380
Liberals and conservatives are narcissistic in different ways, study finds

"...A new study has found that liberals and conservatives are on average no more or less narcissistic compared to each other. But the two political orientations are associated with different facets of narcissism. The new findings have been published in the American Journal of Political Science. “Several paths led us to explore the relationship between social narcissism and political behaviors and values — and we actually began developing our research plan and collecting pilot data on the topic in 2009,” said study author Peter K. Hatemi of Pennsylvania State University."

"...Using the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, they found that levels of narcissism were about equal among liberals and conservatives. But a higher sense of entitlement was associated with more conservative positions, while exhibitionism was associated with more liberal positions. People scoring high on entitlement agree with statements like “I insist upon getting the respect that is due me” and “I expect a great deal from other people.” People scoring high on exhibitionism, on the other hand, agree with statements like “I get upset when people don’t notice how I look when I go out in public” and “I will usually show off if I get the chance.” “The simple takeaway is that activation of one’s sense of entitlement appears to be related to individuals moving to the right, while activation of one’s need to display their values is related to left-leaning political positions,” Hatemi told PsyPost. “The bigger message is that narcissism is part of all people’s normal persona. We are finding it has an important role in political values and decision making. The role is not simplistic such as to only categorize liberals or conservatives or Democrats and Republicans, rather, it operates uniformly in most domains but more specifically in others.”

The conservative one is a little ridiculous. How is commanding the appropriate respect due to you a narcissistic trait?

The liberal traits are far more indicative of NPD...

 

[Ulysses]

Woman are so good at reading men that the only way a man could convince a woman he was something more was to first convince himself. Narcissism.

That's a phenomenal insight. I agree with you completely.

 

[Spokey]

Can someone define what they mean by define liberal?

 

[CrystalClear]

I usually just read on the forum, but this topic interests me because my mother had NPD. Her children suffered but we couldn't define the reason. Was the covert type. I believe I picked up traits but have since realised and have dropped some over time. I'm in AUS but watching the draining of the swamp in US. I would suppose the "liberals"? weigh in heavier as narcissists judging on the projection going on as well as the scheming and manipulation, not to mention the overwhelming gaslighting.

I watched the posted video featuring Sam Vaknin. Cold therapy sounds shocking to me. Very anti - Peat. I was listening to another therapist who is here in AUS and he advocated treating the chronic stress nutritionally first or at the same time as therapy. Not sure what his success rate is. I thought it interesting because therapists I have known don't give your physiology or state of health a thought.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I usually just read on the forum, but this topic interests me because my mother had NPD. Her children suffered but we couldn't define the reason. Was the covert type. I believe I picked up traits but have since realised and have dropped some over time. I'm in AUS but watching the draining of the swamp in US. I would suppose the "liberals"? weigh in heavier as narcissists judging on the projection going on as well as the scheming and manipulation, not to mention the overwhelming gaslighting.

I watched the posted video featuring Sam Vaknin. Cold therapy sounds shocking to me. Very anti - Peat. I was listening to another therapist who is here in AUS and he advocated treating the chronic stress nutritionally first or at the same time as therapy. Not sure what his success rate is. I thought it interesting because therapists I have known don't give your physiology or state of health a thought.

"Anti-Peat"? Are we a cult now?

Or would you prefer they go to some talk therapist that charges them tens of thousands over the years, no change happens and the narc continues hurting themselves and other?

 

[Spokey]

Liberalism - Wikipedia

Freedom of speech and liberty. That doesn't sound like the values of a narcissist.

 

[managing]

Liberalism - Wikipedia

Freedom of speech and liberty. That doesn't sound like the values of a narcissist.

THis study is about people who self-identify as liberal or conservative. It is not about holding liberal or conservative views.

Those who keep trying to use this study to discredit one or the other "ideology" are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Spokey]

A real liberal is hardly going to identify as a Maoist communist or a Nazi are they? They must have a definition of liberal that's different to my understanding of it. What is that?

 

[managing]

A real liberal is hardly going to identify as a Maoist communist or a Nazi are they? They must have a definition of liberal that's different to my understanding of it. What is that?

I just answered that. Self-report. You are liberal if you say you are. You are conservative if you say you are. Thus, this is a study of self-reporting and self-labeling behavior. Not of ideology proper.

 

[Regina]

I usually just read on the forum, but this topic interests me because my mother had NPD. Her children suffered but we couldn't define the reason. Was the covert type. I believe I picked up traits but have since realised and have dropped some over time. I'm in AUS but watching the draining of the swamp in US. I would suppose the "liberals"? weigh in heavier as narcissists judging on the projection going on as well as the scheming and manipulation, not to mention the overwhelming gaslighting.

I watched the posted video featuring Sam Vaknin. Cold therapy sounds shocking to me. Very anti - Peat. I was listening to another therapist who is here in AUS and he advocated treating the chronic stress nutritionally first or at the same time as therapy. Not sure what his success rate is. I thought it interesting because therapists I have known don't give your physiology or state of health a thought.

It sounds like the therapist who suggested treating chronic stress nutritionally has good inclinations.

Did your Mom always display these traits? I ask because when I was a child, I grew up with the sweetest Mom. I am the youngest and my siblings all agree. My Mom was 40 when I was born. She was a stay at home Mom, very involved in our education, cultural and community events, crafts at home and the Church. When she hit menopause, she had a "compound hysterectomy" and was put on estrogen HRT. Around that time, my Dad took me for a day out to farms to pick fruit and he had a long talk with me. He said Mommy is changing. She's going through a change in life and we all have to be very patient with her. She doesn't feel well.
Well, actually, that was putting it lightly.
She became tremendously energetic, impatient and irritable. She thought I was nauseatingly lazy. Even then, I thought her energy had a weird feel to it and it made me want to do the opposite. She started taking the train downtown and going to the courthouse to watch murder trials - courtroom drama. The contrast from this close-to-home pleasant Mom, to suddenly taking long train commutes downtown everyday to get herself involved in courtroom drama was like, huh?!? Even after the long commute home, she'd grab me and take me to the mall. She would march fast through the whole place saying, "C'mon!!!" to me. My dad started doing all the cooking and shopping because she no longer had any interest in us. She had a churning restlessness. Then all the traits we now know as narcissism began to really set in. Scary, because she is super smart.
At any rate, she is now 93 yrs old with alzheimer's. I did try ritanserin, progestene and methylene blue on her and in about 5 minutes, she became lovely and wanted to be taken to the balcony to do the NYTimes crossword puzzle, (she completed it perfectly, as she always did). I live out-of-state and my siblings and her live-in nurse will not follow any of these ideas.
I am pretty convinced that these anti-social behaviours are hormonally driven. Their commander-in-chief is their pituitary.

 

[Spokey]

I just answered that. Self-report. You are liberal if you say you are. You are conservative if you say you are. Thus, this is a study of self-reporting and self-labeling behavior. Not of ideology proper.

That sounds like double-think. If I say I am A I am A, or B I am B, but this isn't a study about A or B yet you've just made the case they're equivalent.

Since a liberal holds views that oppose the control of people's personal lives by the state, and uphold freedom of speech, the only way this can make sense is if they have a definition of liberal that isn't the same as mine. Since someone who self identifies as believing in letting people get on with their lives seems very unlikely to be the same sort of person who is a narcissist.

All I want to know, is what they meant by "identified as a liberal"

 

[managing]

That sounds like double-think. If I say I am A I am A, or B I am B, but this isn't a study about A or B yet you've just made the case they're equivalent.

Since a liberal holds views that oppose the control of people's personal lives by the state, and uphold freedom of speech, the only way this can make sense is if they have a definition of liberal that isn't the same as mine. Since someone who self identifies as believing in letting people get on with their lives seems very unlikely to be the same sort of person who is a narcissist.

All I want to know, is what they meant by "identified as a liberal"

What THEY (the authors) mean by "identified as a liberal" is they (the study participant) said "yes, I am a liberal".

If i am understanding you correctly (and I am a little uncertain) you are having time accepting that "someone who self identifies as believing in letting people get on with their lives" is narcissistic? But that is exactly why I am making the distinction I am. There is nothing inherently narcissistic about liberal (nor conservative) ideologies in general or as a whole. And this study is not about that.

This study is about self-adoption of and self-adornment with labels. Specifically, the hot button social-political labels "conservative" and "liberal".

It is saying that those who proudly thump their chests and flash their liberal credentials at the door are likely to be strong in a particular dimension of narcissism called "exhibitionism". "Look at me, look at me. I am a good person. I heart Bernie. I worked with Mother Theresa. I want my wealth to be taxed at a high rate. I am liberal, hear me whimper." Exhibitionist.

Meanwhile, those who proudly thump their chests and flash their conservative credentials at the door are likely to be strong in a particular dimension of narcissism called "entitlement." This is my country [my ancestors got here before your's and killed the natives, thus earning me the right]. Now get back in the kitchen with my babies while I go find another woman so I can grab her by the . . . " Entitled.

The study says these things about those who buy into the nonsense and idiocy of false dichotomies. Both are narcissists, but of different flavors. It says nothing about ideologies at all.

Neither of these narcissists Perceive. Think. Act.

 

[Ulysses]

Neither of these narcissists Perceive. Think. Act.

Yep, independent thinking requires independent doing. Passivity or “leanred helplessness” is a central characteristic of narcissism...

 

[Ideonaut]

It's just something that caught my eye. Not sure where did you see narcissism in me posting that study...

I was just trying to express my opinion that "narcissism" is not a solid scientific term, like Freudian "psychology" is not scientific.

 

[managing]

I was just trying to express my opinion that "narcissism" is not a solid scientific term, like Freudian "psychology" is not scientific.

not a good comparison. "Narcissism" is rigorously defined and tested. That doesn't necessarily mean its good science, but it is scientific. Freudian psychology, at least in the hands of Freud never tried to be scientific. It was just a bunch of crap he made up. That doesn't necessarily make it useless. But it does make it unscientific.

 

[Fractality]

Many of the "primitive" societies that have little fear of death have also almost no culture that would teach things such as progress, legacy, obedience, etc. Amazon Indians are a good examples of such (small) societies. They are interested in simply being, without much concern for social structure or what happens after they are gone.

They hold world views which tend more towards animism or pantheism. They do seem to focus somewhat on what happens when their biological self expires through ritual. With the techniques of ritual, people imagined that they took control of the matierial world and at the same time transcended that world by fashioning their own invisible projects which made them supernatural; above and beyond material decay and death. Ritual is actually a form of pre-industrial manufacturing. Man controls nature by whatever he can invent.

Some of them have languages that do not include a concept of time, and it has been shown that the less time-centric a language is the less materialistic and fatalistic the attitude of people using it is.

Interesting, and it makes sense since time and language implies a discontinuous self/ego which by its very existence must be constantly validated by having "value" and "meaning."

I understand the premise of the Terror Management Theory, it is somewhat valid. I mentioned it quite a few times in my 2014-2015 posts. But there are plenty of examples of people who do not fear death the slightest and if it was an evolutionary development it should have been present everywhere, regardless of culture.

What do you mean by present everywhere regardless of culture? There are definitely different layers to self-esteem; from the cosmic "endowed with infinite love" level to the "I got a great deal on some fruit at the grocery store today" level.

I wouldn't equate a healthy self-preservation instinct with Terror Management Theory. The former is constructive, while the latter is nihilistic.
The fact that drugs like LSD can remove the fear of death completely also suggests an actual fear is pathological. Concern about staying alive? Healthy. But paralyzing fear leading to complete nihilism and various coping mechanisms? Probably a pathology of some sort.

I don't view TMT as nihilistic; it's simply a descriptive theory which helps explain why people do what they do. The studies seem to show that the "pathology" is pervasive. People with high death anxiety tend to be much more materialistic. Following death reminders, people say they intend to spend more on clothing and entertainment and yearn for high status luxury goods. Even handing people money and having them count it, their death anxiety is reduced. Mortality reminders increase our contempt for nature; after thinking about our death people deny that humans are animals, hold more negative attitudes towards animals, and consider it more appropriate to kill animals for reasons other than for food or medical research. People become more uncomfortable with their own bodies including basic biological functions (even sex becomes more aversive). Death reminders make people more uncomfortable in natural settings as opposed to cultivated surroundings, and more willing to exploit natural resources such as forests for personal gain.

 

[CrystalClear]

It sounds like the therapist who suggested treating chronic stress nutritionally has good inclinations.

Did your Mom always display these traits? I ask because when I was a child, I grew up with the sweetest Mom. I am the youngest and my siblings all agree. My Mom was 40 when I was born. She was a stay at home Mom, very involved in our education, cultural and community events, crafts at home and the Church. When she hit menopause, she had a "compound hysterectomy" and was put on estrogen HRT. Around that time, my Dad took me for a day out to farms to pick fruit and he had a long talk with me. He said Mommy is changing. She's going through a change in life and we all have to be very patient with her. She doesn't feel well.
Well, actually, that was putting it lightly.
She became tremendously energetic, impatient and irritable. She thought I was nauseatingly lazy. Even then, I thought her energy had a weird feel to it and it made me want to do the opposite. She started taking the train downtown and going to the courthouse to watch murder trials - courtroom drama. The contrast from this close-to-home pleasant Mom, to suddenly taking long train commutes downtown everyday to get herself involved in courtroom drama was like, huh?!? Even after the long commute home, she'd grab me and take me to the mall. She would march fast through the whole place saying, "C'mon!!!" to me. My dad started doing all the cooking and shopping because she no longer had any interest in us. She had a churning restlessness. Then all the traits we now know as narcissism began to really set in. Scary, because she is super smart.
At any rate, she is now 93 yrs old with alzheimer's. I did try ritanserin, progestene and methylene blue on her and in about 5 minutes, she became lovely and wanted to be taken to the balcony to do the NYTimes crossword puzzle, (she completed it perfectly, as she always did). I live out-of-state and my siblings and her live-in nurse will not follow any of these ideas.
I am pretty convinced that these anti-social behaviours are hormonally driven. Their commander-in-chief is their pituitary.

Mum was always like it I believe. I was eighth of nine chn.

 

[Regina]

Mum was always like it I believe. I was eighth of nine chn.

Ah, that's rough.
For me, understanding the behaviours through a Peat lens has really helped illuminate the condition.
I was able to witness and experience a strong contrast in my Mom. It was really like a body-snatchers. Where did she go?
I remember even as a teen thinking , "I miss my Mom." Because this person is not she.

 

[Spokey]

What THEY (the authors) mean by "identified as a liberal" is they (the study participant) said "yes, I am a liberal".

If i am understanding you correctly (and I am a little uncertain) you are having time accepting that "someone who self identifies as believing in letting people get on with their lives" is narcissistic? But that is exactly why I am making the distinction I am. There is nothing inherently narcissistic about liberal (nor conservative) ideologies in general or as a whole. And this study is not about that.

This study is about self-adoption of and self-adornment with labels. Specifically, the hot button social-political labels "conservative" and "liberal".

It is saying that those who proudly thump their chests and flash their liberal credentials at the door are likely to be strong in a particular dimension of narcissism called "exhibitionism". "Look at me, look at me. I am a good person. I heart Bernie. I worked with Mother Theresa. I want my wealth to be taxed at a high rate. I am liberal, hear me whimper." Exhibitionist.

Meanwhile, those who proudly thump their chests and flash their conservative credentials at the door are likely to be strong in a particular dimension of narcissism called "entitlement." This is my country [my ancestors got here before your's and killed the natives, thus earning me the right]. Now get back in the kitchen with my babies while I go find another woman so I can grab her by the . . . " Entitled.

The study says these things about those who buy into the nonsense and idiocy of false dichotomies. Both are narcissists, but of different flavors. It says nothing about ideologies at all.

Neither of these narcissists Perceive. Think. Act.

Well that make's sense, especially given your definition of a liberal. Liberal means something completely different where I live, in fact I'd class most people on this forum as liberal (and not socialist authoritarians). It'd be very weird if the people with essentially the views opposed to authoritarianism self identified or otherwise, were narcissists in general. Not impossible, but weird.