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Both Conservatives And Liberals Are Narcissistic, Former Are Entitled Latter Are Insecure

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think this is a good study which shows that both political "camps" have their own peculiarities and limitations. As such, we should probably keep these findings in mind when evaluating politicians or even just people we interact with on a daily basis. The study called found liberals scoring high on "exhibitionism", but according to the DSM guidelines those are also signs of insecurity. I am not a fan of either camp, so I am glad that at least one study is willing to point out that both sides can be full of it, when it comes to politics. The one thing that I disagree on with the study is that narcissism is part of a "normal" people's persona. In my experience, the higher the narcissism the more hypothyroid/hypometabolic the person is. So it is certainly not something "normal" for a healthy adult to exhibit. For example, it is well known among psychologists and psychiatrists that narcissism is virtually non-existent in children. Its development happens to coincide with onset of puberty, which (as Peat mentioned) is when metabolism takes the first major dive. As an additional confirmation, I know several people who are high in the pecking order (e.g. big company executives) and were extremely narcissistic and even psychopathic in the past. After beginning to use cyproheptadine or ondansetron on a regular basis these people changed so dramatically that they no longer fit the requirements for executives and two of them left their C-level positions to seek their passion elsewhere. One of them told me a month ago that he "does not feel an interest any more in making a ton of money and controlling other people's lives". Not bad for a few month's worth of antiserotonin regimen :):

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajps.12380
    Liberals and conservatives are narcissistic in different ways, study finds

    "...A new study has found that liberals and conservatives are on average no more or less narcissistic compared to each other. But the two political orientations are associated with different facets of narcissism. The new findings have been published in the American Journal of Political Science. “Several paths led us to explore the relationship between social narcissism and political behaviors and values — and we actually began developing our research plan and collecting pilot data on the topic in 2009,” said study author Peter K. Hatemi of Pennsylvania State University."

    "...Using the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, they found that levels of narcissism were about equal among liberals and conservatives. But a higher sense of entitlement was associated with more conservative positions, while exhibitionism was associated with more liberal positions. People scoring high on entitlement agree with statements like “I insist upon getting the respect that is due me” and “I expect a great deal from other people.” People scoring high on exhibitionism, on the other hand, agree with statements like “I get upset when people don’t notice how I look when I go out in public” and “I will usually show off if I get the chance.” “The simple takeaway is that activation of one’s sense of entitlement appears to be related to individuals moving to the right, while activation of one’s need to display their values is related to left-leaning political positions,” Hatemi told PsyPost. “The bigger message is that narcissism is part of all people’s normal persona. We are finding it has an important role in political values and decision making. The role is not simplistic such as to only categorize liberals or conservatives or Democrats and Republicans, rather, it operates uniformly in most domains but more specifically in others.”
     
  2. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    I am wondering if there could be companies out there that don’t require such driven and aggressive people as leaders? Check out this crazy cool company in Brazil:

    How to run a company with (almost) no rules
     
  3. Fractality

    Fractality Member

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    Narcissism is a coping mechanism for the terror of animal insignificance and death.
     
  4. Ulysses

    Ulysses Member

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    It's easy to blame people for being narcissistic, rather than taking a hard look at what the culture has become, and how the prevailing values force people to behave in certain ways. For example, what the researchers have termed "the respect that is due me," our grandparents might have called manners. And if people don't notice when we dress or present ourselves well, it's because we have had foisted upon us this ridiculous notion that aesthetics don't matter, and concern with personal appearance is pure superficiality. So, we mostly dress like slobs, and don't notice much when other people make an effort. It's just not a cultural value any more (and here I am talking about the United States, in which I have unfortunately lived for my entire life).

    But, again, there used to be a high premium placed on presenting oneself well, not just for special occasions, but at all times. It also fell under the category of manners, showing respect for the opinion and aesthetic sensibilities of those around you. It could just as easily be said that, with the deconstruction of the culture, the satisfaction of normal human drives like showing respect to others and being respected, or presenting oneself well to likewise respectable people, have been sublimated into narcissism. Of course if you will neither be appreciated for holding the door open, nor expect to have it held open for you, the psychological energy you withdraw from our dealings with other people, whom you now must purposefully ignore, will be internalized and directed at the self, or invested in some abstraction such as an ideology.

    This is what Christopher Lasch called cultural narcissism. I don't think personality disorders are on the rise, but the culture is becoming more dehumanized and encourages modes of behavior that are consistent with NPD.
     
  5. Collden

    Collden Member

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    I wonder in what sense you consider narcissism to be "non-existant" in children? As far as I know most psychologists consider narcissism to be a result of retarded emotional maturation due insecure attachment during early childhood. Children believe that the world revolves around them and that they are the cause of everything that happens, a belief that narcissists retain on a subconscious level.

    The other aspect of narcissism is the constant need for validation and inaility to empathize with others due to a constant pre-occupation with oneself, which I'm not sure if that applies to all children or only insecurely attached ones, but the general worldview of children would seem to be very narcissistic.

    Also psychopathy and narcissism are considered to have very different orgins. I agree that narcissists are generally hypothyroid, probably because of the high chronic stress generated by their deep-seated emotional insecurity. Psychopaths on the other hand generally have very low stress levels and higher than average thyroid function.
     
  6. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I'm getting worried bout the peeps around this forum.
     
  7. Regina

    Regina Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
  8. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Both puppets on the same hidden hand. Punch and Judy.
     
  9. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Sam Vaknin has recently had success curing narcissism with what he has coined "Cold Therapy". He considers narcissism a human universal, and a form of dissociative personality disorder. You have a wounded child persona, the true self, protected by a false self. Since pretty much everyone pretends to be something they are not at least some of the time, this seems to be correct.

    The Cold Therapy approach apparently includes the therapist abusing the narc in the same way he was abused as a child, but since he is an adult he can deal with it and this leads to powerful insight that the narcissism is no longer needed. I too am inauthentic in many ways and found I had a similar experience in Radical Honesty workshop. Once the need to defend the vulnerable child self falls away it opens up a space for intimacy and authenticity.

    Both American liberals and conservatives are completely detached from reality and have horrible policies.
     
  10. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Cool, thats very interesting. Refreshing just to see a psychologist consider that narcissism might be curable. I think doing various "ego-crushing" activities such as publicly embarrassing yourself or doing things where you might be rejected (like asking someone out) can have a similar therapeutic effect. Narcissists are typically scared to death of doing anything that might bruise their ego but it just might be doing those things that can help.

    Probably many social bonding rituals such as hazing and ball-busting also have the purpose of beating narcissistic tendencies out of people. Face-to-face socialising in general will serve to iron the narcissism out of people, either you stop self-obsessing or you become ostracised. When people substitute the Internet for genuine social interaction it promotes narcissism by allowing people to vent their thoughts/feelings and receive validation without the need to reciprocally engage and empathise with another person.
     
  11. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Narcs will actually embarrass and humiliate themselves. It is a source of supply. what they don't do is reveal their true self.
     
  12. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Is narcissism a conscious acting out to maintain an image, or a subconscious acting out of a false self? If it's the former, I can see how conservatives and liberals are guilty of that. But if this is so, this is a matter of their choosing, isn't it? And if so, how is it possible that there is a cure for it?

    If there is a cure for it, narcissism has to be a subconscious expression of insecurity. If this is the case though, I can't really see this human condition being limited to conservatives and liberals.
     
  13. Collden

    Collden Member

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    True, hadn't thought of that, maybe excessive fear of embarrassment applies more to covert narcissists.
     
  14. Collden

    Collden Member

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    A little discouraging though to read about this guy on narcissist victim forums where people accuse him of being a psychopath who takes advantage of his clients and makes them worse. What gives?
     
  15. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    "Victim forums" tend to be filled by eternal victims, and nothing gets such people more angry than someone telling them to take some responsibility for their part in the abuse.

    I do not know if Sam has abused clients, and quite frankly it would not suprise me. He is still the best authority on narcissism I know.
     
  16. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    The concious-subconcious division is highly questionable. It seems to many that the concious mind is an illusion and does not exist. But it seems that there is a concious calculation to produce supply from the victims, but the vulnerable false self is kept out of conciousness, because it is so painful to think about it. The false self exist to protect the true self, like a mask or an armor. It not quite the same, but you can think of it like you not paying attention to the back of your head. It is there should you pay attention, but mostly you don't. I am not an expert on narcissism though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    In any case, if you get the permission to access the true self you can change things. It also does not matter if something is subconscious since things like cronic pain, migraines, allergies and cancer are often caused by the unconscious mind and can be addressed if the concious mind allows it.
     
  17. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I guess it's about knowing one's fear or insecurity and being willing to face up to it where one gets to coming closer to knowing one's true self. Once once appreciates his true self, he would need less the armor of the false self, and he would be able to rid himself of his narcissistic tendencies.
     
  18. Ideonaut

    Ideonaut Member

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    In contrast to the solid biochemistry-based studies haidut usually offers, I consider this one focusing on Freudian "narcissism" to be more garbage than science -- made-up untestable crap unworthy of serious consideration.
     
  19. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    So it has to be double-blind, with controls and placebos, with statistical validity, etc etc. to not be crap? Or are you just used to the usual haidut load of non-crap?
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    It's just something that caught my eye. Not sure where did you see narcissism in me posting that study...
     
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