Boron—Essential To Ray Peat Health?

postman

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Boron is HIGHLY estrogenic. The bodybuilding community was crazy about it in the 1990s, but then they found out first hand that it raises estrogen (I think all 3 types) and dumped it. Boron has similar effects to cadmium, nickel, cobalt, etc and they are all estrogenic and carcinogenic in higher doses.
Peat is right that unless you are deficient you'd better not mess with it. See below for a study in men.

The effect of boron supplementation on its urinary excretion and selected cardiovascular risk factors in healthy male subjects

"...Supplementation with 10 mg B/d for 4 wk resulted in 84% of the supplemented dose being recovered in the urine. Plasma estradiol concentrations increased significantly as a result of supplementation (51.9±21.4 to 73.9±22.2 pmol/L;p<0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone levels to be increased. However, there was no difference in plasma lipids or the oxidizability of low-density lipoprotein Our studies suggest that the absorption efficiency of B is very high and estimation of the urinary B concentration may provide a useful reflection of B intake. In addition, the elevation of endogenous estrogen as a result of supplementation suggests a protective role for B in atherosclerosis."
Looks like selection bias to me because it lowers estrogen in many studies, and in some studies it increases estrogen in women but not in men. In the study you linked it increased the testosterone levels from 10 to about 17 for one subject. That's going from hypogonadism, to an acceptable level, roughly a 70% increase
 

Jon

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Looks like selection bias to me because it lowers estrogen in many studies, and in some studies it increases estrogen in women but not in men. In the study you linked it increased the testosterone levels from 10 to about 17 for one subject. That's going from hypogonadism, to an acceptable level, roughly a 70% increase

I too have been curious about borons Raise in estriadol maybe just being compensatory for the Raise in test and dht. There has to be a balance of them all to be healthy.

EDIT: I THOUGHT I read knew that egg shells contained a high amount of boron, but now I'm having trouble finding it so eggshells are off the hook for now lol.
 
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postman

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I think people in the forum also miss the fact that EGG SHELLS have probably the highest concentration of boron out of any "food" substance.
Very interesting, do you have any numbers on that?
 

Jon

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Very interesting, do you have any numbers on that?

Man I looked and looked and I can't find what I once read about the actual boron content in egg shells, my apologies. I'm going to edit my above comment.
 

Motif

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My boron blood test showed that I'm not deficient, but it's pretty low. Should I take a supplement?
 

Amazoniac

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Boron is HIGHLY estrogenic. The bodybuilding community was crazy about it in the 1990s, but then they found out first hand that it raises estrogen (I think all 3 types) and dumped it. Boron has similar effects to cadmium, nickel, cobalt, etc and they are all estrogenic and carcinogenic in higher doses.
Peat is right that unless you are deficient you'd better not mess with it. See below for a study in men.

The effect of boron supplementation on its urinary excretion and selected cardiovascular risk factors in healthy male subjects

"...Supplementation with 10 mg B/d for 4 wk resulted in 84% of the supplemented dose being recovered in the urine. Plasma estradiol concentrations increased significantly as a result of supplementation (51.9±21.4 to 73.9±22.2 pmol/L;p<0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone levels to be increased. However, there was no difference in plasma lipids or the oxidizability of low-density lipoprotein Our studies suggest that the absorption efficiency of B is very high and estimation of the urinary B concentration may provide a useful reflection of B intake. In addition, the elevation of endogenous estrogen as a result of supplementation suggests a protective role for B in atherosclerosis."
This study is a great find IMO but unfortunately it uses [we're using] the elevations in blood levels of estrogen as a reason to label glycine [boron?] as estrogenic, which is wrong. Just like progesterone, glycine [boron?] can trigger release of estrogen from tissues/cells and this elevates the blood levels while lowering it in tissues.
 
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haidut

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InChristAlone

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Yeah I'd really like a solid answer on boron. It is purported to have many benefits, but I always felt it increased estrogen.
 

haidut

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I thought this was enough. But what do think?

I think the main effects of boron are estrogenic. The increases in androgens/DHT only happen in some people, which is consistent with DHT rising to control estrogen, but only healthy people can probably muster up this response. In older people boron has been shown to have predominantly estrogenic effects without the benefit of androgen increase.
 

Ella

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My boron blood test showed that I'm not deficient, but it's pretty low. Should I take a supplement?

Boron is a very interesting molecule. Why not eat dried fruits which are high in boron.

I included some nuts and beans back into my diet and have noticed some +ve things. Tightening of loose skin after losing a lot of weight. My boron levels were low on hair tissue analysis.

I'm not advocating nuts and beans for others, as they are very high in phosphorus. You need to be sure your calcium is right.

I'm starting my mum on the calcium-fructoborate which I think would be better than the borax solution. I have used borax in the past and is very effective for yeast conditions. She eats lots of fruits, dry and fresh and I have seen +ves in lean muscle and increase in bone density.

We'll do a dexa scan after the supplementation to determine how effect the calciuum-fructoborate is.

PTH is important to know as the parathyroid gland requires boron in the same manner thyroid gland is dependent on iodine and selenium. However, we don't want an overactive parathyroid gland.

Here's an interesting video on boron and prostate cancer.

Researcher At Mayo Clinic Told Me To Take Boron - Advanced Prostate Cancer | HealthUnlocked
 

Amazoniac

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I think the main effects of boron are estrogenic. The increases in androgens/DHT only happen in some people, which is consistent with DHT rising to control estrogen, but only healthy people can probably muster up this response. In older people boron has been shown to have predominantly estrogenic effects without the benefit of androgen increase.
Thanks to you.

Have you read this? There's a discussion on hormonal aspects as well.


Nothing Boron Abour Boring

"Boron has been shown to increase serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 (25[OH]D3) in animal studies4,24 and of vitamin D–deficient individuals in human studies.25,26 In a clinical trial25 in which middle-aged men and women (n = 15) were placed on a low-boron diet, which was also marginal in magnesium and copper status, for 63 days (0.23 mg B/2000 kcal), 25(OH)D3 rose significantly after boron supplementation (3 mg/d as sodium borate) for an additional 49 days. Levels of 25(OH)D3 rose from an average of 44.9 nM after the 63 days of boron deprivation to 62.4 nM after the 49 days of boron repletion, a 39% increase. [Not sure how they arrived on these figures, but there was an increase]

Similar results were seen in an open pilot study of middle-aged individuals (n = 13) predetermined to be vitamin D deficient (serum 25[OH]D3 < 12 ng/mL). Levels of 25(OH)D3 were studied during boron supplementation of 6 mg/d for 60 days using calcium fructoborate, Ca([C6H10O6]2B)2·4H2O, a boron-containing complex that occurs naturally in fruit.26 The study took place in Serbia with supplementation beginning in October and concluding by January; in other words, the study occurred during the fall transition to winter, a time when vitamin-D status would be expected to worsen. Yet, with boron supplementation, 25(OH)D3 levels rose significantly, with an average rise of 20%.27

How does boron exert its hormonal effects? In sum, boron increases the biological half-life and bioavailability of E2 and vitamin D." :nailbiting:

But then it begs the question: what's in food sources that prevents this issue?
 

Ella

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I think the main effects of boron are estrogenic. The increases in androgens/DHT only happen in some people, which is consistent with DHT rising to control estrogen, but only healthy people can probably muster up this response. In older people boron has been shown to have predominantly estrogenic effects without the benefit of androgen increase.

@haidut I have been having gelatin and aspirin for many years now, however the skin tightening and increase in lean muscles and bone density only occurred once I reintroduced grains, nuts and beans. It was not through any sort of exercise as my physical activities have not changed that much.

Why would this happen?

Just wanting to understand as it is important to tease out for those individuals experiencing the same dilemma. I almost regretted losing the weight.

My body lost all its padding in the right places. I can only describe it as going back to the prepubescent years, before estrogen hits.

I could not tolerate any anti-estrogenic or anti-aromatase substantances like orange juice, marmalade and coffee.

Surprisingly, I am now able to tolerate these again?? One coffee with 5 teaspoons of sugar every few days.

Doesn't this suggest that I was too aggressive in targeting estrogen or do you think there are other variables to consider?
 

haidut

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@haidut I have been having gelatin and aspirin for many years now, however the skin tightening and increase in lean muscles and bone density only occurred once I reintroduced grains, nuts and beans. It was not through any sort of exercise as my physical activities have not changed that much.

Why would this happen?

Just wanting to understand as it is important to tease out for those individuals experiencing the same dilemma. I almost regretted losing the weight.

My body lost all its padding in the right places. I can only describe it as going back to the prepubescent years, before estrogen hits.

I could not tolerate any anti-estrogenic or anti-aromatase substantances like orange juice, marmalade and coffee.

Surprisingly, I am now able to tolerate these again?? One coffee with 5 teaspoons of sugar every few days.

Doesn't this suggest that I was too aggressive in targeting estrogen or do you think there are other variables to consider?

Did you measure any biomarkers associated with estrogen such as prolactin and cortisol before/after this change? It is hard to say what happened without any baseline to compare it to. Gelatin is not a complete protein and has to be consumed with other protein for proper nutrition. Weight loss is not always a good result, especially if it results in loss of lean mass.
Not sure what this has to do with boron though...
 

Ella

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Gelatin is not a complete protein and has to be consumed with other protein for proper nutrition.

I was also consuming loads of milk, gelatin with meats, shellfish and liver. Lots of fruits, orange juice, mushrooms and potatoes. I think I was getting adequate protein, if not too much.

I had completely eliminated, beans, grains, seeds and anything estrogenic + PUFAs.

Then had a really strong desire for peanut butter which I have not eaten for >20 years. Added marmalade hoping for some protection from mycotoxins. I swapped the peanut butter for almonds.

Did you measure any biomarkers associated with estrogen such as prolactin and cortisol before/after this change?

I started with high estrogen going into menopause and sky high cortisol - sorry I don't have results on hand.

I will be running some labs soon, but feel cortisol is no longer an issue. My head does not spin at the slightest stress. Since I have been feeling so well, I have not be so focused on getting labs. Stupid I know, as I only want to see good results on my lab tests to avoid being disheartened.

Perhaps optimisation of thyroid function improved clearance of estrogen and cortisol and that in itself helped with loose skin. IDK

Yesterday, I ate oats with dried fruits (figs, dates, apricots & prunes) + lots of fresh fruit, watermelon, mangoes, green melon and grapefruit, almonds, gelatin, baby potatoes & bean salad.

All parameters on the scales, fat%, lean muscle, water%, bone were strikingly good. Mostly sedentary all day. If I can keep this up, it will be so awesome.

Perhaps with improved thyroid function, it doesn't matter too much having estrogenic foods as I am able to excrete estrogen and cortisol more efficiently. I was on thyroid when dealing with the loose, wrinkling skin but did not seen any improvement.

May be it was just a matter of time for the body to get round to tightening up flab.

I was taking the borax but decided to swap to foods high in boron.

Also we have come out of winter, so the sunshine and warmer temperatures may have contributed to +ve effects.

I could not tolerate fruit during the winter and needed more warming foods like grains, potatoes and beans. Now its warmer, fruit is in abundance and incredible sweet, I find no issues with it but still keep orange juice & coffee to a minimum which tends to dry out mucuosal lining in my nasal passages, bladder and vaginal lining. These symptoms have resolved by increasing estrogenic foods. It may be other nutrient factors in those foods but estrogen and boron stand out for me.

I still think the better route would be via testosterone converting to estrogen rather than relying on estrogenic foods.

This will be my next experiment. Cut out all the estrogenic foods again and focus on increasing testosterone. It will be easier to do this during the summer months. I will get labs done so I know baseline and see what happens.
 

Blossom

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I was also consuming loads of milk, gelatin with meats, shellfish and liver. Lots of fruits, orange juice, mushrooms and potatoes. I think I was getting adequate protein, if not too much.

I had completely eliminated, beans, grains, seeds and anything estrogenic + PUFAs.

Then had a really strong desire for peanut butter which I have not eaten for >20 years. Added marmalade hoping for some protection from mycotoxins. I swapped the peanut butter for almonds.



I started with high estrogen going into menopause and sky high cortisol - sorry I don't have results on hand.

I will be running some labs soon, but feel cortisol is no longer an issue. My head does not spin at the slightest stress. Since I have been feeling so well, I have not be so focused on getting labs. Stupid I know, as I only want to see good results on my lab tests to avoid being disheartened.

Perhaps optimisation of thyroid function improved clearance of estrogen and cortisol and that in itself helped with loose skin. IDK

Yesterday, I ate oats with dried fruits (figs, dates, apricots & prunes) + lots of fresh fruit, watermelon, mangoes, green melon and grapefruit, almonds, gelatin, baby potatoes & bean salad.

All parameters on the scales, fat%, lean muscle, water%, bone were strikingly good. Mostly sedentary all day. If I can keep this up, it will be so awesome.

Perhaps with improved thyroid function, it doesn't matter too much having estrogenic foods as I am able to excrete estrogen and cortisol more efficiently. I was on thyroid when dealing with the loose, wrinkling skin but did not seen any improvement.

May be it was just a matter of time for the body to get round to tightening up flab.

I was taking the borax but decided to swap to foods high in boron.

Also we have come out of winter, so the sunshine and warmer temperatures may have contributed to +ve effects.

I could not tolerate fruit during the winter and needed more warming foods like grains, potatoes and beans. Now its warmer, fruit is in abundance and incredible sweet, I find no issues with it but still keep orange juice & coffee to a minimum which tends to dry out mucuosal lining in my nasal passages, bladder and vaginal lining. These symptoms have resolved by increasing estrogenic foods. It may be other nutrient factors in those foods but estrogen and boron stand out for me.

I still think the better route would be via testosterone converting to estrogen rather than relying on estrogenic foods.

This will be my next experiment. Cut out all the estrogenic foods again and focus on increasing testosterone. It will be easier to do this during the summer months. I will get labs done so I know baseline and see what happens.
@Ella, I was wondering how you are doing with the boron foods? Since I started eating raisins and dates every single day it's seemed to have helped my menopause symptoms go from rough to barely noticeable.
 
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BigChad

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This study might shed some light how Boron is achieving some of its effects.

Up-regulatory impact of boron on vitamin D function -- does it reflect inhibition of 24-hydroxylase? - PubMed - NCBI

"Clinical studies also suggest that nutritional boron can up-regulate 17beta-estradiol levels in women, including postmenopausal women receiving hormone replacement therapy. The catabolism of this hormone is achieved by microsomal enzymes catalyzing vicinal hydroxylations -- a description that also applies to 24-hydroxylase. This suggests the more general hypothesis that nutritional boron can inhibit a range of microsomal enzymes which insert hydroxyl groups vicinal to existing hydroxyls in steroids -- including the enzymes which catabolize estradiol and 25-hydroxyvitamin D."


Inhibiting the enzyme which catabolizes estradiol seems like a bad thing. As for the effect on bone, it seems that just taking adequate vitamin D will accomplish the same thing.

I am suspicious of its anti-inflammatory effect. I suspect it may be suppressing the immune system. Does anybody know how it is achieving its anti-inflammatory action?

most of what ive read seems to indicate that boron drastically increases the half life of vitamin d, testosterone, and estrogen. and it promotes magnesium retention (but maybe thats because most people get too much calcium relative to magnesium)
 

chimdp

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most of what ive read seems to indicate that boron drastically increases the half life of vitamin d, testosterone, and estrogen. and it promotes magnesium retention (but maybe thats because most people get too much calcium relative to magnesium)

I'm wondering if the changes in testosterone and estrogen have to do with Boron's purported effect on reducing SHBG?

"Boron in plasma increased significantly following hours and weekly consumption. Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level. After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly. Dihydrotestosterone, cortisol and vitamin D was elevated. Also, concentrations of all three inflammatory biomarkers decreased after supplementation. Of note, despite decreased proinflammatory cytokines, based on recent clinical data, this must be the first human study report to show an increase level of free testosterone after boron consumption." Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines. - PubMed - NCBI


I've had issues with high blood sugar after meals and very high SHBG (103) since supplementing thyroid for about 4 months. I've been doing just T3 for the last 3 months. My prolactin is also not ideal at 11 ng/mL. I was doing trying different doses (20-40mcg in divided doses) to bring up my chronically low body temps. I've since dropped myn T3 dosing to 10mcg/day and my blood sugar issues are going away after just 5 days. I'm fairly confident the T3 caused the high blood sugar and SHBG numbers.

I started taking Boron because of its SHBG lowering effects and think i feel a little better but its only been a few days. I'm going to get T and E tests again soon, but i've also been taking Pansterone, CortiNon, 11 keto DHT and Androsterone (low doses of each) for the past 3 weeks so my new T and E numbers wont be purely because of Boron. DHEA is also known to decrease SHBG
 

Blossom

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I'm wondering if the changes in testosterone and estrogen have to do with Boron's purported effect on reducing SHBG?

"Boron in plasma increased significantly following hours and weekly consumption. Six hours supplementation showed a significant decrease on sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), high sensitive CRP (hsCRP) and TNF-α level. After one week (in samples taken at 8.00 A.M, only), the mean plasma free testosterone increased and the mean plasma estradiol decreased significantly. Dihydrotestosterone, cortisol and vitamin D was elevated. Also, concentrations of all three inflammatory biomarkers decreased after supplementation. Of note, despite decreased proinflammatory cytokines, based on recent clinical data, this must be the first human study report to show an increase level of free testosterone after boron consumption." Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines. - PubMed - NCBI


I've had issues with high blood sugar after meals and very high SHBG (103) since supplementing thyroid for about 4 months. I've been doing just T3 for the last 3 months. My prolactin is also not ideal at 11 ng/mL. I was doing trying different doses (20-40mcg in divided doses) to bring up my chronically low body temps. I've since dropped myn T3 dosing to 10mcg/day and my blood sugar issues are going away after just 5 days. I'm fairly confident the T3 caused the high blood sugar and SHBG numbers.

I started taking Boron because of its SHBG lowering effects and think i feel a little better but its only been a few days. I'm going to get T and E tests again soon, but i've also been taking Pansterone, CortiNon, 11 keto DHT and Androsterone (low doses of each) for the past 3 weeks so my new T and E numbers wont be purely because of Boron. DHEA is also known to decrease SHBG
That’s so interesting. I did not know boron lowers SHBG.
 

chimdp

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That’s so interesting. I did not know boron lowers SHBG.

I was intrigued as well. And I didn't realize that thyroid hormones can increase blood sugar and SHBG, I thought it would have raised my blood sugar consumption, but apparently the body will always have a compensatory action when you introduce too much outside influence (even though I wasn't taking a lot of thyroid and my numbers seemed to say I could use it, TSH 2.5, FT3 and FT4 very bottom of the reference range, and body temps ranging from 96.7 -97.6)
 

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