Bone Growth In Adulthood

[Jamesu]

As the title suggests, I'm considering the chances I have for bone growth and development in adulthood. I'm currently 21 so I've potentially got some innate development left before things stabilise. It's clear that bodybuilding results in a mechanoadaltive responsiveness from bone structure, leading to skeletal changes and adaptations to accommodate increased muscle size and tension. I'm considering how it would be possible to increase bone mass without having to become a body builder, as I generally see an increase in bone mass as a positive for both aging and attractiveness.
Any ideas?

 

[lampofred]

If PUFA is "deficient" bones will grow at any age. I think getting lots of sugar, vitamin D, milk (for high calcium and casein protein and low iron), vitamin K would be important.

 

[redsun]

As the title suggests, I'm considering the chances I have for bone growth and development in adulthood. I'm currently 21 so I've potentially got some innate development left before things stabilise. It's clear that bodybuilding results in a mechanoadaltive responsiveness from bone structure, leading to skeletal changes and adaptations to accommodate increased muscle size and tension. I'm considering how it would be possible to increase bone mass without having to become a body builder, as I generally see an increase in bone mass as a positive for both aging and attractiveness.
Any ideas?

Lots of red meat will help the most if there is any chance left for you to grow a bit more, protein quantity from animals is the most vital part. Second most important thing would be minerals. Calcium from good quality cheeses (provide zinc also) and milk, red meat provides iron and zinc. Iron has a vital role when it comes to growth, you don't want to limit any nutrient if growth is the goal. Cholesterol as well which you would get anyway but eggs provide more.

 

[Jamesu]

If PUFA is "deficient" bones will grow at any age.

I understand how detrimental PUFA's can be to the endocrine system, however, I find it hard to believe that depleting PUFA's would allow for bone modification or growth. Care to elaborate?

 

[Jamesu]

Lots of red meat will help the most if there is any chance left for you to grow a bit more, protein quantity from animals is the most vital part. Second most important thing would be minerals. Calcium from good quality cheeses (provide zinc also) and milk, red meat provides iron and zinc. Iron has a vital role when it comes to growth, you don't want to limit any nutrient if growth is the goal. Cholesterol as well which you would get anyway but eggs provide more.

Are all these foods geared towards a state in which the metabolism allows for growth in all instances? I would assume growth would only occur in very rare situations where a person may have been deficient in hormones or macro/micro nutrients and hadn't grown to their full potential in adolescents

 

[lampofred]

I understand how detrimental PUFA's can be to the endocrine system, however, I find it hard to believe that depleting PUFA's would allow for bone modification or growth. Care to elaborate?

I don't know the technical biological mechanism but in a broad sense PUFA accumulation is what signals the end of growth/regenerative capacity for an organism. Reducing PUFA will turn on the DNA for any remaining bone growth your body is programmed for (I think this is one of the few areas where genetics actually come into play). But it's going to be more involved than just cutting out PUFA from the diet, it will take sugar, calcium, coffee, moving to a high altitude, avoiding alcohol/orgasm, in other words things that not only prevent further PUFA accumulation but actually remove already accumulated PUFA.

 

[Jamesu]

Thanks. Have you had any success with PUFA depletion?

 

[redsun]

Are all these foods geared towards a state in which the metabolism allows for growth in all instances? I would assume growth would only occur in very rare situations where a person may have been deficient in hormones or macro/micro nutrients and hadn't grown to their full potential in adolescents

Generally yes because growth is mostly about high protein intake. Your 21 not 25, so you may still be able to grow but no one knows for sure. Regardless of age though red meat and lots of protein is the mostly effective in promoting growth regardless. Nothing else really would come close.

Leucine rich proteins are best for raising mTOR and its about raising growth hormones such as IGF1 and mTOR. Dairy is particularly leucine rich compared to meat while also providing calcium and zinc. Quality aged cheese would be the best in my opinion for leucine but all dairy is high in it, gouda is good for example. Keep in mind aged dairy provides K2, necessary for getting calcium into the bones.

In short red meat + dairy is one of the most pro-growth combos.

 

[baccheion]

A slight caloric surplus triggers mTOR/growth. Whatever growth may be left. A slight caloric deficit trigger AMPK and is more about maintenance (good for those trying to slow maturation and increase regeneration).

In addition to mTOR, there's insulin. And PTH (triggers synthesis of active vitamin D, a hormone that's anabolic). And IGF-1.

The stress response from lifting likely results in higher DHT, HGH/IGF-1, DHEA, and other hormones. And the rate of protein synthesis doubles.

Increasing IGF-1 will generally trend toward increasing growth (rate). With a good androgenicity:estrogenicity ratio and nutrients sufficient, growth will follow a more desirable shaping.

1,000 mg alpha-GPC on an empty stomach increases HGH (/IGF-1) about as much as MK-677. Vitamin B3 has a similar effect. I suppose such an approach may not be "peaty".

There are many ways to increase IGF-1. Fat-soluble vitamins, especially vitamin K2 MK-4? Etc.

Follow the same plan as though you were going to the gym: 161 mg/kg leucine from protein, calorie surplus due to protein added over and above the RDA, body fat below 15-16%, supplement stack, protein cycling (eg: 0.75 g/lb for 2 days, 1.00 g/lb for 2 days, 1.25 g/lb for 2 days, close to 0 grams on the 7th day to reset, then again), etc.

Normalize cortisol, insulin, body fat percentage (8-14%), nutrient levels, and thyroid/HPTA/metabolism.

 

[Jamesu]

A slight caloric surplus triggers mTOR/growth. Whatever growth may be left. A slight caloric deficit trigger AMPK and is more about maintenance (good for those trying to slow maturation and increase regeneration).

In addition to mTOR, there's insulin. And PTH (triggers synthesis of active vitamin D, a hormone that's anabolic). And IGF-1.

The stress response from lifting likely results in higher DHT, HGH/IGF-1, DHEA, and other hormones. And the rate of protein synthesis doubles.

Increasing IGF-1 will generally trend toward increasing growth (rate). With a good androgenicity:estrogenicity ratio and nutrients sufficient, growth will follow a more desirable shaping.

1,000 mg alpha-GPC on an empty stomach increases HGH (/IGF-1) about as much as MK-677. Vitamin B3 has a similar effect. I suppose such an approach may not be "peaty".

There are many ways to increase IGF-1. Fat-soluble vitamins, especially vitamin K2 MK-4? Etc.

Follow the same plan as though you were going to the gym: 161 mg/kg leucine from protein, calorie surplus due to protein added over and above the RDA, body fat below 15-16%, supplement stack, protein cycling (eg: 0.75 g/lb for 2 days, 1.00 g/lb for 2 days, 1.25 g/lb for 2 days, close to 0 grams on the 7th day to reset, then again), etc.

Normalize cortisol, insulin, body fat percentage (8-14%), nutrient levels, and thyroid/HPTA/metabolism.

Wow, Thanks for your input. I will give this a try.

 

[jzeno]

All that I can come up with from here: Height Growth After 25 and Protein Quality, Not Genes, Determine Male Height

DHEA and high quality protein diet

 

[lampofred]

Thanks. Have you had any success with PUFA depletion?

My bone structure has been steadily changing, getting more proportional, especially as my calcium, vit D, vit K intake goes up in tandem with PUFA restriction.

 

[baccheion]

My bone structure has been steadily changing, getting more proportional, especially as my calcium, vit D, vit K intake goes up in tandem with PUFA restriction.

Facial asymmetry reducing? What do you mean? Any pics? What do you eat (CRON-o-meter screenshot, for example)?

 

[Velve921]

I’ve grown 1/2 inch in height since following Dr. Peat’s work.

 

[Quelsatron]

1) Is the possibility to grow the bones of your hands/wrists different from becoming taller? I have rather small hands.
2) With growing bone in general, is there possibly some sort of "coiled spring" effect where you have the dormant potential to grow further, but you can lose that potential by altering your diet/habits in an erronous way? So if you have neither factor A or B, but acquire only one of them then the potential growth vanishes, compared to achieving that growth if you have all factors.

3) first post woo!

 

[Jamesu]

1) Is the possibility to grow the bones of your hands/wrists different from becoming taller? I have rather small hands.
2) With growing bone in general, is there possibly some sort of "coiled spring" effect where you have the dormant potential to grow further, but you can lose that potential by altering your diet/habits in an erronous way? So if you have neither factor A or B, but acquire only one of them then the potential growth vanishes, compared to achieving that growth if you have all factors.

3) first post woo!

Wooo congratulations on making your first post, welcome to this awesome community. I too also wonder the specifics of your questions. I think that it's possible to change bone volume and width but I don't really know whether it's possible for longitudinal growth to occur past the closing of growth plates. Although there is some hope, as I know that the stem cells remain alive, just dormant within the fused plates.

 

[joshquintanilla]

If you want more bone in your face a good bet would be to develop your masseter muscles in your jaw. Chewing gum or if your really serious a chewing appliance called chisell are good options.. also boxing.. getting hit in the face hard will definitely increase bone mass!!!

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Lifting weights / bodybuilding is mandatory. You don't have to live and breath the bodybuilder lifestyle, just get jacked and muscular while looking aestethic.
When I was into Lookism forums, there was a 'bonesmash' theory (hitting your facial bones with a hammer). You might want to research that.

 

[Kvothe]

Generally yes because growth is mostly about high protein intake. Your 21 not 25, so you may still be able to grow but no one knows for sure. Regardless of age though red meat and lots of protein is the mostly effective in promoting growth regardless. Nothing else really would come close.

Your obsession with high meat/protein intake is a little bizarre. It leads you to make pretty unfounded statements like that. Adequate protein is needed for growth, but high protein, and especially high meat intake, are not causally related to growth. You know who eats a very high meat diet? Pygmy and Eskimo.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

You know who eats a very high meat diet? Pygmy and Eskimo

Yes, but they also eat high fat, so Ketogenic.
The Masai tribe are very tall though and they are almost Carnivores + milk/honey.
Also, the Dutch are high dairy, so high protein.