Bone Broth Makes Me Feel Fkin Weird

[FredSonoma]

My bone broth is dope... everyone likes the taste. It gels every time, looks and smells beautiful. Only thing is, eating it makes me feel really weird. I've been trying to figure out for the past two weeks why I feel so weird after breakfast and I really think it's the bone broth.

Has anyone else experienced this and then switched to eating Great Lakes Gelatin / glycine / any other form and felt better?

Could I just be eating too much? (I do often eat more than I feel like eating because I "know" it's "good for me," but looking back on the past few years of my life, forcing myself to eat things bc the internet told me to has probably caused a significant downfall of my health and happiness)

 

[Such_Saturation]

Do you feel weird and a little nauseous?

 

[FredSonoma]

Do you feel weird and a little nauseous?

Not nauseous I don't think, more just anxious and tired, and my stomach will feel kinda bloated or uncomfortable. I skipped it this morning and felt so much better - mood, energy, libido, focus

 

[Tarmander]

SAME thing happens to me. I would say I feel a bit over stimulated...or relaxed and hyper at the same time. Very odd.

I think it is the free glutamate in it if I remember correctly. I always reacted poorly to MSG and so I figured it must be tied to that.

I found that after I stopped restricting calories and gained 30 pounds, I could tolerate it better. I still stay away from large amounts of bone broth, but I can tolerate gelatin and the odd long cooked stew much better. I also tolerate the bone broth from pacific now just fine.

 

[FredSonoma]

SAME thing happens to me. I would say I feel a bit over stimulated...or relaxed and hyper at the same time. Very odd.

I think it is the free glutamate in it if I remember correctly. I always reacted poorly to MSG and so I figured it must be tied to that.

I found that after I stopped restricting calories and gained 30 pounds, I could tolerate it better. I still stay away from large amounts of bone broth, but I can tolerate gelatin and the odd long cooked stew much better. I also tolerate the bone broth from pacific now just fine.

Interesting thanks! Is there any way to reduce the free glutamate? Would cooking a large batch and letting it sit in my fridge too long cause problems?

 

[Tarmander]

I think the longer you cook it the more the glutamates rise. Not sure if there is a work around. I always notice the longer it cooked the more severe my reaction.

 

[mt_dreams]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin? I seem to respond better to that then animal bone varaities.

Have you tried to take it at different parts of the day? Maybe it does not suit you best to take it in the morning.

The powders might work in your case. It might be something else in the homemade variety that is causing the problem. I have had stomach aches before from the powdered gelatin, though once I stop, then restart, the problem is gone, so I probably work best by rotating my gelatin sources.

 

[FredSonoma]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin? I seem to respond better to that then animal bone varaities.

Have you tried to take it at different parts of the day? Maybe it does not suit you best to take it in the morning.

The powders might work in your case. It might be something else in the homemade variety that is causing the problem. I have had stomach aches before from the powdered gelatin, though once I stop, then restart, the problem is gone, so I probably work best by rotating my gelatin sources.

Hm.... I will try the fish bones, thanks!

 

[Stuart]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin? I seem to respond better to that then animal bone varaities.

Have you tried to take it at different parts of the day? Maybe it does not suit you best to take it in the morning.

The powders might work in your case. It might be something else in the homemade variety that is causing the problem. I have had stomach aches before from the powdered gelatin, though once I stop, then restart, the problem is gone, so I probably work best by rotating my gelatin sources.

Hm.... I will try the fish bones, thanks!

Fish heads are free :) And so much more manageable than cow heads. And if you add a fair bit of vinegar when you start cooking the broth, all the bones/scales (all the hard stuff in fact) become very soft and edible within a couple of days. If you get the vinegar/calcium ratio right, the resulting broth isn't acidic at all. So you get to eat the lot.

 

[narouz]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin?

How do you get yours, mt?

 

[answersfound]

When you spend so much of your life in a high serotonin state, and you begin to move towards a lower serotonin state, it certainly will feel very weird.

 

[mt_dreams]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin?

How do you get yours, mt?

fish gelatin powder is too expensive for my blood. Especially since fish stock is so cheap.
Like Stuart mentioned, they're either giving the heads away for free if you have a good relationship with fish sellers, or they're dirt cheap otherwise. Stay clear from any heads from fatty fish or you'll end up having to move. The vid below also implies that there's thyroid within the heads, which if true, is a bonus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRCE7Y8btk

Sounds like Stuart does a long boil for the heads, which i imagine would make it even more gelatin concentrated. I wonder if there's any drawbacks to this length of simmer like there is with regards to cattle bones.

 

[Stuart]

Have you tried low fat fish gelatin?

How do you get yours, mt?

fish gelatin powder is too expensive for my blood. Especially since fish stock is so cheap.
Like Stuart mentioned, they're either giving the heads away for free if you have a good relationship with fish sellers, or they're dirt cheap otherwise. Stay clear from any heads from fatty fish or you'll end up having to move. The vid below also implies that there's thyroid within the heads, which if true, is a bonus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRCE7Y8btk

Sounds like Stuart does a long boil for the heads, which i imagine would make it even more gelatin concentrated. I wonder if there's any drawbacks to this length of simmer like there is with regards to cattle bones.

That's really interesting about the thyroid MT_. I had no idea.
Can you also explain about the issue with the long simmer with bovine stuff? The way I do it is not really a simmer actually. It's just hot enough to keep pathogens from developing. Have you heard of 'Sous Vide' cookery? It's basically heating whatever food item just to the point where the food starts denaturing. For fish it's only 45deg C. Other meats are variously hotter. For example beef is about 53 deg C . All the way up to vegetables which take about 95 deg C. It was an absolute revelation to me when I cooked my first piece of fish at 45 deg and it was cooked to perfection in half an hour. The way sous vide works though you could keep it for hours at that temp and there wouldn't be any further change.
Making bone broth this way you aren't really using the heat to break down the bone or release the gelatin/collagen. That's what the vinegar is for. The same principle applies when you such an egg into a bottle by dissolving the egg shell with vinegar. But it does take quite a few days to make a large cow's hip bone soft, so it has to be the minimum pasteurization temp, or 60 deg C if you maintain the temp for upwards of an hour. So as long as you keep it above 60 deg you could keep it indefinitely. I don't think it's been done for longer than a couple of months. But restaurants use 'Sous Vide to perfectly cook meat in batches weeks before they use a particular piece and then sear it on both sides just prior to serving it - still perfectly rare inside.
And if you insulate the cooking vessel very well, say with a few blankets, you hardly use any energy. I've kept a 6 litre bone broth at 60 deg C for weeks using about 5.4 watts.

 

[SQu]

So Stuart the heat is just to preserve while the acid does the work? Fascinating. I've noticed the sauce from a marinating chicken gelling while still raw and in the fridge. seeing as oxidation is another reason bone broth might be affecting you badly Fred, this sous vide sounds promising. What about hot weather and spoiling, Stuart?

 

[Stuart]

So Stuart the heat is just to preserve while the acid does the work? Fascinating. I've noticed the sauce from a marinating chicken gelling while still raw and in the fridge. seeing as oxidation is another reason bone broth might be affecting you badly Fred, this sous vide sounds promising. What about hot weather and spoiling, Stuart?

As I understand it, yes. It's a little bit counter intuitive I suppose. I tend to think of using a fridge to keep things cold to preserve them But meat spoils after few days in the fridge. And I think the moderate heat helps the action of the acid (vinegar). I found that the easiest way to nail just the right amount of vinegar to make all the bones soft enough to cut with a fork is to add a bit less than what you think will be enough and then after a couple of days if the bones aren't soft enough, add a little bit more and wait another couple of days.
I use my pressure cooker as the vessel even though no pressure builds up at that temp because a pressure cooker is such a hermetic seal that there is no moisture loss. And if you're making fish head broth - which can be quite a strong smell at first - no smell escapes.
Otherwise I think the kids would leave home.
Sous vide finely temp controlled cooking is also great for making perfect egg custards etc. without curdling

Not sure I understand your hot weather spoiling query. The 60 deg temp which will preserve the broth isn't affected by ambient temperature. Once it's done it just goes in the fridge or freezer. Although you could concirvably just eat it out of the still hot pot I suppose. In other words keep it at at least 60 deg C until you'd eaten the lot.l

 

[FredSonoma]

So Stuart the heat is just to preserve while the acid does the work? Fascinating. I've noticed the sauce from a marinating chicken gelling while still raw and in the fridge. seeing as oxidation is another reason bone broth might be affecting you badly Fred, this sous vide sounds promising. What about hot weather and spoiling, Stuart?

As I understand it, yes. It's a little bit counter intuitive I suppose. I tend to think of using a fridge to keep things cold to preserve them But meat spoils after few days in the fridge. And I think the moderate heat helps the action of the acid (vinegar). I found that the easiest way to nail just the right amount of vinegar to make all the bones soft enough to cut with a fork is to add a bit less than what you think will be enough and then after a couple of days if the bones aren't soft enough, add a little bit more and wait another couple of days.
I use my pressure cooker as the vessel even though no pressure builds up at that temp because a pressure cooker is such a hermetic seal that there is no moisture loss. And if you're making fish head broth - which can be quite a strong smell at first - no smell escapes.
Otherwise I think the kids would leave home.
Sous vide finely temp controlled cooking is also great for making perfect egg custards etc. without curdling

Not sure I understand your hot weather spoiling query. The 60 deg temp which will preserve the broth isn't affected by ambient temperature. Once it's done it just goes in the fridge or freezer. Although you could concirvably just eat it out of the still hot pot I suppose. In other words keep it at at least 60 deg C until you'd eaten the lot.l

Fascinating stuff thanks Stuart! When you cook it like that how do you get it to stay right at 60 deg? I want to try this with fish head broth. Also, for approx 1 gallon of water, how much acid would you put?

 

[tara]

I think storing the broth for several days in the fridge may contribute to it breaking down into more bioactive amines. Have you read Peat's article from a few months ago about meat? This is one of my suspects.

 

[FredSonoma]

I think storing the broth for several days in the fridge may contribute to it breaking down into more bioactive amines. Have you read Peat's article from a few months ago about meat? This is one of my suspects.

No I haven't - will look for it now. Would it be in recent articles on his website?

Edit: is it this? http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/me ... ress.shtml

 

[FredSonoma]

Do you feel weird and a little nauseous?

Just had some of my bone broth, and yeah I do feel kind of nauseous. Is it an issue with how I'm cooking it you think? What are my alternatives? Would just eating cod / shrimp / oysters for meat sources (instead of eggs / beef / lean pork) help my amino acid balance?

 

[mt_dreams]

That's really interesting about the thyroid MT_. I had no idea.
Can you also explain about the issue with the long simmer with bovine stuff? The way I do it is not really a simmer actually. It's just hot enough to keep pathogens from developing. Have you heard of 'Sous Vide' cookery?

Nice description of how you use the Sous Vide to do broth. One of these days I'll invest in one of these puppies, so I can start cooking like a pro. I'm definitely a fan of using the least amount of heat possible to cook things safely.

I'm not very good at searching for Ray quotes, but he's mentioned that simmering beef bones for 24-72 hours like the WAPF crowd does (whom the lady in the video heads up a region for) ends up also leaching things you don't want from the bones, into the broth. I have a feeling that fish will not apply as most of their bones are more similar to cartilage than animal bones, but I'll leave it to someone more in the know how, to confirm this.