Blood Test Results Of Long Term Peaters?

[Javelina]

I'm interested in hearing from individuals that have embraced a Peat diet and have subsequently done some lab work on markers /levels of CRP, homocysteine, A1C and some in depth testing such as a VAP test. Also am curious about any changes in fasting blood sugar levels. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[Dan W]

Not exactly what you're looking for, but I did some short term before-and-after testing when I first started Peating (including CRP):
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/th ... post894811

I bet Danny Roddy has a lot of blood test info from his clients and could tell you some trends. I'm not sure he focuses on the ones you mention though.

 

[Javelina]

Thanks Dan. The drop in your CRP is VERY impressive although as you suggested, the original number may have been somewhat of a fluke. Hopefully others will chime in over time too.

 

[Mittir]

Not exactly what you're looking for, but I did some short term before-and-after testing when I first started Peating (including CRP):
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/th ... post894811

I bet Danny Roddy has a lot of blood test info from his clients and could tell you some trends. I'm not sure he focuses on the ones you mention though.

In that post from 2010 you mentioned you gained some fat.
Were you able to shed that weight later? Your pre-peat
TSH was 5.77, which indicates clear hypothyroidism.
I started peating with TSH of 4.5 and now it is below 1 and
was able to lose 22 lbs of weight and gained tons of muscle.
Is it possible that you were eating more calories than you could
burn on peat eating? It seems like a common experience in a lot
of DR and MS followers. MS recommends eat for heat diet and
DR talks about milk and OJ diet. I do not think any of them have
clear idea about peat philosophy. I believe there is clear science
showing Sugar ( sucrose, fructose+glucose in fruits)
increasing energy expendeture and Milk or calcium increasing
weight loss. I have read that people can gain 6-7 lbs of water weight
switching from low carb to high carb just by repleting whole body glycogen
storage. Body stores glycogen molecules with several molecules of water.

PS:I do not want to distract this CRP thread. If you want you can make a
separate thread with his post. I am really curious about people who
gains fat on RP style eating.

 

[Ella]

Mittir, I am also interested in tracking inflammatory markers such CRP and other cardiac markers or cytokines such as IL-6. I have been following RP philosophy since my complete physical breakdown whilst I was in the middle of my Masters/Phd research thesis. My research was the overlap between allergy, infection and autoimmunity. Unfortunately, I did not know of RP's work at the time. My research had lots of missing pieces that when I stumbled onto Peat's work, it all started to make sense.

My break down was brought on by stress and I was unable to walk for about a year. Maybe the breakdown was needed for me to truly understand the relationship between stress and inflammatory conditions, which was the link I was working on in my research. I had damaged my knees from doing routine exercise. A cumulation of high stress, cortisol, adrenaline and estrogen as I was going into menopause. Not an ideal mix. My weight increased at the rate of 2 kg/ week before the breakdown. TSH > 5.00 and high thyroid auto-antibodies. My body broke and I was immobile and in excrutiating pain. I have managed to repair and regenerate my knees and am now able to walk, run up and down stairs and absolutely no pain. I am extremely grateful that my body has been able to repair without any invasive intervention. When I started "peating", I was already 30 kg overweight: yes I put on more weight while "peating" but I was more focussed on repair and regeneration than losing weight. Introducing the sugar and OJ increased my weight and my breasts kept getting bigger, which was clearly not desirable as I was not happy at increasing bra sizes. Even with the weight increase I persistened with "peating" because my energy was up and I was healing. It has been lots of trial and error and slowiy now the weight is on a downward trajectory. I have been sedentary throughout this time but find when I do strength exercises, muscle mass increases immediately. My weight was just over 110kg and is now sitting at 96kg. Doesn't seem much but that's 14kg drop compared to increase of 2kg/week. My carb calories have increased but protein from muscle meat reduced and switched predominantly to gelatin, milk & dairy, potatoes, liver & shellfish. I have also reduced eggs since discovering that free-range chickens are supplemented with grain of which 30% is soy and methionine is added to their feed.

At first the weight loss scared me as much as the weight increase as weight loss is associated with diabetes and cancer. I was convinced that I damaged my pancreas. My blood glucose has gone up which scared the ***t out of me and have stopped tracking it because it is too upsetting. It maybe a sign that I need thyroid hormone but I still have a long way to go in restoring homestasis. Having shunned sugar for most of my life, I figured I needed to allow time to adapt to sugar. Rarely, I take a tiny nibble of Cytomel T3 tablet when I have lots of head work to do. I find switching carbs to fruits and sugar and milk to be of most benefit. I am curious to test my markers now if I can find the courage to do so. I know, I am such a baby and I am still trying to optimise temperature. It would be great to have a list of useful biomarkers that we could focus on. For example, we know thyroid is intimately related to CVD, perhaps we could include markers such as blood viscosity (to titrate Vit. E) and arterial stiffness. A thread dedicated to blood tests/biomarkers is an excellent idea.

 

[BingDing]

Welcome to the forum, Ella!

You have done well to be able to regenerate your knees, I think that indicates a fundamentally healthy system. So following the basic Ray Peat ideas has the potential to keep you healthy and to live a long life.

I agree about the help that lab tests can give, but they can be expensive. It kinda sucks, American medicine hitched their wagon to the technological star but now they can't deliver the technology.

 

[Ella]

Thanks for the warm welcome BingDing. I agree it kinda sucks which is why before my breakdown I was primarily focussed on developing a non-invasive and inexpensive method of detecting inflammatory molecules in tear fluid. The technology need not be expensive and I would love to see more DIY testing similar to inexpensive glucose monitoring. Those strips though are still bloody expensive without insurance. Quite a few years back, I did some research looking at designing contact lenses that change colour to alert the wearer of rising blood glucose. I believe that they will soon be a reality as I remember one company is bringing them to market. A lot more non-invasive and hassle free than finger pricking.

Tear fluid, like other biofluids is useful in detecting early stages of degenerative conditions such as MS, years before symptoms become apparent. As my research was in corneal degeneration, tear fluid and corneal epithelia was the environment I was interested in.

As my work was in tissue regeneration, I would have been sadly disappointed if I was not able to restore the integrity of my knees. I have always stayed clear of PUFAs because of the research work with the cornea and other eye conditions. They are useful in corneal transplants in downregulating rejection but deleterious to otherwise healthy tissue. You see the collagen found in the cornea is the same as found in tendons, ligaments, skin, cartilage, bones, blood vessels, the gut, intervertebral discs and the dentin in teeth. I had targeted gelatin for use in regeneration of corneal tissue but never got the chance to take it to animal or human trials. This was well before I knew of Ray Peat. I was well on my way as my research was being funded by one of the universities in conjunction with eye hospital where I live. It all came to an end once I had my breakdown. I can now look back on my physical breakdown as an opportunity to test my research in aiding my own regeneration. Once I came across Peat, I felt vindicated in the decisions I had made regarding my research. The research community were only interested in finding the gene with this corneal condition. Seemed a complete waste of my life. A vaccine or patentable molecule again completely bored me. I have had to fight many battles in getting the message across, that halting the disease progress and perhaps reversing it might be within the control of body's owning regenerative and healing process. Peat's writing made that paradigm shift easier for me. Randy Jirtle's work with the agouti gene made it a reality for me. I was researching the properties of many molecules for regeneration of corneal cells. Gelatin and honey were the standout candidates. In the begining I thought that honey's healing ability was tied to the species of plant (it may still be), but after reading Peat's view on sugar and stem cells, I think that the sugar maybe the key to regeneration. The thought of giving a cell more energy in the form of sugar to optimise repair and regenerative sounds too obvious doesn't it and makes one feel stupid.

The most revealing part of my research into stem cell therapy the corneal disease of interest is that, the quality of stem cells can only be as good as the energy of the donor individual. The same is true of donor corneas. So if you need a corneal transplant as many of these individuals do, then you want to make sure the person that the cornea is coming from, is in reasonably robust health. High level of energy equates to high quality stem cells. Listening to Peat on transplantation of organs, I would choose a male donor in preferance to a female donor. Not that we have the luxury of choosing as donor tissue is very hard to get in the first place. So the fact that we can generate our own stem cells is exciting for me. More exciting would be if these damaged corneas caught in the early stages could be regenerated by the body's own stem cells, like the thymus, liver, pancreas, adrenal and thyroid gland; in the same fashion my knees were regenerated. The holy grail is the regeneration of endothelium and stroma. It kinda all seems possible when listening to Ray and I wish I had another life to complete this work.

Getting back to testing, I put all my lab equipment into storage with the hope that one day I would return to my research. I have been thinking that I could put it to use in tracking inflammatory markers in tear fluid perhaps in conjunction with a Peat style philosophy or just in tracking stress hormones that are so destruction to tissues and organs. The fact that I have posted this here suggests that my energy levels must be good. I would love to do some collaborative work with Ray if he was opened to it. I wish I could have him guide. I think I would never shut up asking him questions. I don't think that I am quite ready to retire. I have been thinking about my options with what to with my life now and frankly, I don't think I know how to do anything else. I am currently working with egg farmers in bringing a new egg to market trying to raise the standards in egg quality. The regulations in Australia mean that we will no longer have caged eggs. But the elephant in the room is that even though chickens are free-range they are still eating 20% grain feed of which 30% is soy and the fact that methionine is supplemented in the feed is not conducive to our longevity. I just hope that my body keeps on regenerating and getting stronger, then anything is possible.

 

[SQu]

Hi Ella, thanks for a fascinating story, both your research and your own health. I congratulate you on your progress and the courage I know it must have taken to go from being unable to walk, to where you are now, following your own path and not the mainstream one. I think when a path of learning affects you this fundamentally, then it's perhaps akin to the healing crisis that traditional healers sometimes go through that forms the boundary between the old and the new and I'm sure it will lead to great things.
On eggs, I keep some chickens and their food is mostly maize, with some millet and sunflower seed. No soy and no other additives. Other than that they eat bugs and whatever they can catch. But the sad thing is, there is still a slight taste, not quite rancid - but definitely there.

 

[Dan W]

Yes, welcome, Ella.

In that post from 2010 you mentioned you gained some fat.
Were you able to shed that weight later? Your pre-peat
TSH was 5.77, which indicates clear hypothyroidism.

I haven't shed the fat, but I suspect I could if I wanted to: I believe you're right that it's a result of excess calories. But I've been happy with my results (better sleep, skin, energy, muscle gain, etc.) and so haven't really worried about addressing the fat yet. I'll probably do so after getting my temps/pulse closer to the ideal.

 

[Ella]

Hey Sueq, thanks for your kind words of support. I don't know about a healing crisis, I think it was meant to be a learning crisis. To understand which pieces of the puzzle are missing, needs to be experiential rather than hypothetical. I think the universe was forced to send a lesson to stop me going down another dead end rabbit hole. If I really wanted to understand tissue regeneration, then the only way to do that authentically, was to push me to think at a deeper level. What I am most angry about is that Ray had a coherent understanding of this knowledge long before I started my research. I mourn the time wasted trying to connect the pieces to the puzzle. Ray help me to discard the genocentric view of disease conditions, which I battled over with my molecular biology university supervisor. She actually felt sorry for me, thinking that I was misguided in my thinking as she tried to take me under her wing. I was shocked by my arrogant manner and behaviour. Who the hell did I think I was, why did I react so aggressively to the notion that Mendelain genetics could provide answers to the missing pieces of the puzzle? It was only when I stumbled upon Peat's writing that I started to understand my behaviour. Foundational knowledge was wrong and corrupted and the agenda was that as scientists we weren't supposed to uncover the underlying causes of disease conditions, we were fodder for big pharma, big food etc. Enough said.

Its good to hear that you keep your own chickens. I would be concerned with the use of maize though. I would stay away from it and put it in the same category with soy. DO NOT FEED TO ANIMALS OR HUMANS. I will explain next time I post.

Hey Dan, thanks for the welcome. I think you're right, the body has an intelligence that no mere mortal can compete with. It will decide when it is OK to lose the weight. I am pretty sure I could have lost weight at a faster rate, but I have learnt to listen now and not raise stress hormones. The weight did not bother me while I was healing but bothers me now. This suggests having extra energy reserves to tackle the weight problem. We know the body will not let go of fat if it still thinks it is in crises mode. I am no longer focussed on the immobility, pain - the pain was a big deal, feeling scared of being crippled and a burden to my family, never being able to work again. This was a huge shock to someone who basically had an unlimited amount of energy, physically, mentally and emotionally throughout life. During my teen and early adult years, people thought that I was on drugs because I was full on all the time and never stopped. Just a natural high. I think back now that I must have been always running on adrenaline & cortisol?? Under a high progesterone environment, I may have been protected but coming into menopause with a decrease in progesterone ----> increase in estrogen -----> decrease in thyroid hormone in tandem with my high stress life, crush and burn was inevitable. Knowing what I know now, I would have done things differently during the 10 years leading up to menopause. More sleep, more sun, more laughter, more fruit & sugar, more gelatin, more milk (I actually did research on Milk and Retinol before knowing RP). I wish he had been my supervisor. Retinol is such a fascinating molecule and would love to do more work with it.

Dan, Iike you temperature optimisation is my next hurdle but I know I am not going to achieve this unless I optimised sleep. Getting enough hours and going to bed early are the biggest challenge and always has been. Too much to do and not enough hours. Having kids at home and elder care is tough on women as we are always trying to steal time. Sleep is a wonderfully rejuvenating but it continues to elude me. I am going to try really, really hard to achieve this and see if it makes a difference in getting temps right.

 

[tomisonbottom]

In that post from 2010 you mentioned you gained some fat.
Were you able to shed that weight later? Your pre-peat
TSH was 5.77, which indicates clear hypothyroidism.
I started peating with TSH of 4.5 and now it is below 1 and
was able to lose 22 lbs of weight and gained tons of muscle.
Is it possible that you were eating more calories than you could
burn on peat eating? It seems like a common experience in a lot
of DR and MS followers. MS recommends eat for heat diet and
DR talks about milk and OJ diet. I do not think any of them have
clear idea about peat philosophy. I believe there is clear science
showing Sugar ( sucrose, fructose+glucose in fruits)
increasing energy expendeture and Milk or calcium increasing
weight loss. I have read that people can gain 6-7 lbs of water weight
switching from low carb to high carb just by repleting whole body glycogen
storage. Body stores glycogen molecules with several molecules of water.

PS:I do not want to distract this CRP thread. If you want you can make a
separate thread with his post. I am really curious about people who
gains fat on RP style eating.

Were you drinking juice when you lost weight? Or just eating fruits? Did you have any digestive issues at the time, or appetite issues?
Did you pay attention to macros at all?

 

[Xisca]

Its good to hear that you keep your own chickens. I would be concerned with the use of maize though. I would stay away from it and put it in the same category with soy. DO NOT FEED TO ANIMALS OR HUMANS. I will explain next time I post.

I concluded the same, and mind pet food too! Carnivores are not meant for this food.

 

[Xisca]

I think you're right, the body has an intelligence that no mere mortal can compete with.
We know the body will not let go of fat if it still thinks it is in crises mode.
This was a huge shock to someone who basically had an unlimited amount of energy
I think back now that I must have been always running on adrenaline & cortisol??
Under a high progesterone environment, I may have been protected but coming into menopause with a decrease in progesterone ----> increase in estrogen -----> decrease in thyroid hormone in tandem with my high stress life, crush and burn was inevitable. Knowing what I know now, I would have done things differently during the 10 years leading up to menopause.

Yes, the body is autonomous and WORKS.
In my sort of crisis, I never put on weight, but I can get thinner....
I could not believe my energy went away too...
Yes, running on adrenaline and cortisol too...
And I started to have low progesterone too, l ittle after 40.
I thought it was not a problem, as I did not plan a baby!
Now I know more.... Wish I knew before...
But still happy to know NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!