Blood sugar, insulin response RP based introduction

[Peater]

Would anyone be kind enough to give a brief guide to blood sugar in a Ray Peat context? I am wondering if my ongoing issues* are blood sugar related and something in my metabolism is fundamentally broken. I would not be surprised as I was born 2 months prem with all the medical procedures that entails and did not have the best upbringing so the damage may be done.

I have looked online but it is all for diabetics following standard industry advice.

Are those strips diabetics use also a guide I can use?

Is blood sugar a definite guide to proper insulin response or are there other metrics?

Are there other hormones involved that I would not hear about on a generic blood sugar web site?

My general health is fine - I can work, walk, run, swim etc - but these issues are really taking their toll on my mental well-being. I am doing everything right and have been trying to do so for many years.

Blood sugar is the only thing I have never considered as I have avoided PUFA, grains, etc, etc as much as possible (And certainly more so than anyone else my age (36) does so I had no reason to suspect this.

*(Low mood/anxiety, easy sweating, poor temperature control/response, not over-weight but 'skinnyfat' looking body, no response to cortisol or prolactin lowering measures - general thyroid tests in January came back fine please see pic)

Apologies for the dumb post and thanks for any help.

 

[Tarmander]

You can get a blood sugar monitor from walmart for really cheap and start testing your blood sugar before and after meals. That would be helpful I think in understanding your body's response to different foods.

I would say the ray peat diet in particular can seriously mess up your blood sugars. All that juice and protein.

Personally, I find protein raises blood sugar the most. I can eat a lot of sugar and fat if I am not consuming protein. If I consume protein, it is good to avoid a lot of other food until my body has processed the protein. Otherwise I get blood sugar spikes and need to take a lot of insulin (I am a type 1 diabetic)

Many here swear by the randle cycle and put fat and carbs against each other. But I have found it is more about protein and carbs as causing problems for me. Consuming them separately solves a lot of those problems

 

[Peater]

Thanks for replying @Tarmander. So with blood sugar it really is all about insulin and how well my body responds to it?

I've had these issues for years, RP ideas have not made them worse, apologies if my post indicated that

Have you found different types of protein (Muscle meat, gelatinous cuts, eggs) cause different responses for you?

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks for replying @Tarmander. So with blood sugar it really is all about insulin and how well my body responds to it?

I've had these issues for years, RP ideas have not made them worse, apologies if my post indicated that

Have you found different types of protein (Muscle meat, gelatinous cuts, eggs) cause different responses for you?

I dont think you can say blood sugar is all about insulin. That would be nice if it were that simple.

I definitely respond differently to different types of protein. Cooked beef is probably the worst. chicken Turkey is next. Shellfish like shrimp or scallops are no big deal.

 

[Peater]

I dont think you can say blood sugar is all about insulin. That would be nice if it were that simple.

I definitely respond differently to different types of protein. Cooked beef is probably the worst. chicken Turkey is next. Shellfish like shrimp or scallops are no big deal.

Well that is interesting. I eat a lot of beef in chillies and curries (easy tasty grain-free food where I can control the ingredients to take to work). I wonder what it is about the seafood that is more easy on your body.

I might have to just buy a blood sugar monitor and see what's going on, but let me know of any other hormones etc besides insulin I could look into. (I don't expect you to spoon feed me the info )

Thanks again

 

[Tarmander]

Well that is interesting. I eat a lot of beef in chillies and curries (easy tasty grain-free food where I can control the ingredients to take to work). I wonder what it is about the seafood that is more easy on your body.

I might have to just buy a blood sugar monitor and see what's going on, but let me know of any other hormones etc besides insulin I could look into. (I don't expect you to spoon feed me the info )

Thanks again

yeah a blood sugar monitor would be valuable. You could cook and eat the same dish but with different types of proteins or fats and see how your blood sugar reacts say 1.5 hours after the meal.

The only reason I know meat is rough on me is because of blood sugar readings. PUFA will lower blood sugar for a couple days before rocketing it higher for me.

There are lots of hormones that go into blood sugar. If you have high testosterone, blood sugar levels will be lower. If you have high cortisol, blood sugar levels will be higher. The hormones are not the issue though, it is whatever activities are raising or lowering those hormones. EMF may be raising cortisol. Too many orgasms may raise prolactin in men. Bad sleep may throw lots of hormones off. Working from the foundation of hormones is not as effective as figuring out what is causing the hormones.

If it has been an issue for a while, it is probably related to environment, habits, or relationships.

 

[Peater]

yeah a blood sugar monitor would be valuable. You could cook and eat the same dish but with different types of proteins or fats and see how your blood sugar reacts say 1.5 hours after the meal.

The only reason I know meat is rough on me is because of blood sugar readings. PUFA will lower blood sugar for a couple days before rocketing it higher for me.

There are lots of hormones that go into blood sugar. If you have high testosterone, blood sugar levels will be lower. If you have high cortisol, blood sugar levels will be higher. The hormones are not the issue though, it is whatever activities are raising or lowering those hormones. EMF may be raising cortisol. Too many orgasms may raise prolactin in men. Bad sleep may throw lots of hormones off. Working from the foundation of hormones is not as effective as figuring out what is causing the hormones.

If it has been an issue for a while, it is probably related to environment, habits, or relationships.

Thanks for that, I'll pick up a monitor when I can find a good one available here (I am in the UK)

I believe you are right about the 'foundation of hormones', however I also believe something is fundamentally faulty with my body/metabolism, as changing habits and environments has never made an improvement sadly...which makes the relationship aspect non-applicable! (You also mentioned prolactin and cortisol, these were also high, but a sustained effort of targeted treatment (Including metergoline, aspirin, progesterone, cypro etc - not all at the same time!) again made no difference.

You have confirmed for me that blood sugar is worth checking though, and given me some interesting thoughts on types of meat, which I appreciate.

 

[Peatness]

Ray Peat on High Blood Sugar

"Aspirin and sodium bicarbonate, in small repeated amounts during the day, could help to lower cortisol and blood sugar; taking vitamin K helps to lower inflammation, and about 2000 mg of calcium per day, from cheese and milk."

"The supplements that most often help to correct diabetes-like conditions are niacinamide, thiamine, thyroid, and progesterone or pregnenolone. Vitamins D and K are clearly protective against developing diabetes, and their effects on many regulatory processes suggest that they would also help to correct existing hyperglycemia. Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants."

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks for that, I'll pick up a monitor when I can find a good one available here (I am in the UK)

I believe you are right about the 'foundation of hormones', however I also believe something is fundamentally faulty with my body/metabolism, as changing habits and environments has never made an improvement sadly...which makes the relationship aspect non-applicable! (You also mentioned prolactin and cortisol, these were also high, but a sustained effort of targeted treatment (Including metergoline, aspirin, progesterone, cypro etc - not all at the same time!) again made no difference.

You have confirmed for me that blood sugar is worth checking though, and given me some interesting thoughts on types of meat, which I appreciate.

I'm sure if you keep looking you will find it eventually. Sometimes takes years to find the true cause of something you know. But there is a cause!

 

[Peater]

Ray Peat on High Blood Sugar

"Aspirin and sodium bicarbonate, in small repeated amounts during the day, could help to lower cortisol and blood sugar; taking vitamin K helps to lower inflammation, and about 2000 mg of calcium per day, from cheese and milk."

"The supplements that most often help to correct diabetes-like conditions are niacinamide, thiamine, thyroid, and progesterone or pregnenolone. Vitamins D and K are clearly protective against developing diabetes, and their effects on many regulatory processes suggest that they would also help to correct existing hyperglycemia. Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants."

Pina i didn't even see this until now, apologies!

I will try some idealabs K, as the others i have already!

 

[Gypsumking]

I dont think you can say blood sugar is all about insulin. That would be nice if it were that simple.

I definitely respond differently to different types of protein. Cooked beef is probably the worst. chicken Turkey is next. Shellfish like shrimp or scallops are no big deal.

@Tarmander how do you react to milk? It is said that it is extremely insulinergic and can drop blood sugars for some. Also how do you react to gelatin compared to other proteins?

 

[Tarmander]

@Tarmander how do you react to milk? It is said that it is extremely insulinergic and can drop blood sugars for some. Also how do you react to gelatin compared to other proteins?

milk and dairy raise my blood sugar ridiculously and I avoid them except butter which I do alright with. Gelatin gave me a kind of excitotoxic feel...brain hurt

 

[Gypsumking]

I

milk and dairy raise my blood sugar ridiculously and I avoid them except butter which I do alright with. Gelatin gave me a kind of excitotoxic feel...brain hurt

Im the very same. Milk causes me huge blood glucose spikes and then reactive hypoglycemia. I'm not sure about cottage cheese, quark and higher fat cheese but fear theyre not a huge amount better. This glucometer is proving a real eye opener but it all fits my issues.
How do you get enough protein throughout the day without raising blood sugars too high @Tarmander if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Tarmander]

I

Im the very same. Milk causes me huge blood glucose spikes and then reactive hypoglycemia. I'm not sure about cottage cheese, quark and higher fat cheese but fear theyre not a huge amount better. This glucometer is proving a real eye opener but it all fits my issues.
How do you get enough protein throughout the day without raising blood sugars too high @Tarmander if you don't mind me asking?

Raw beef and chicken does not spike my blood sugars in the same way cooked meat will. So I eat around a pound of that every couple days. Still need to take more insulin on those "protein" days, but it is much better then cooked

 

[Gypsumking]

Raw beef and chicken does not spike my blood sugars in the same way cooked meat will. So I eat around a pound of that every couple days. Still need to take more insulin on those "protein" days, but it is much better then cooked

Probably because it isn't digested well. I definitely won't be going to those extremes, raw beef and chicken is wholly unappetising to me. I will test with different proteins in different quantities, combinations and times of day to see what works for me. Thanks though

 

[Tarmander]

Probably because it isn't digested well. I definitely won't be going to those extremes, raw beef and chicken is wholly unappetising to me. I will test with different proteins in different quantities, combinations and times of day to see what works for me. Thanks though

Shell fish like shrimp and scallops also work well. And raw meat digests fantastically

 

[sebastian_r]

Dairy/lactose is a nightmare for my blood sugar, strong increase and stays up for hours on end.

Even next morning fasting bloodsugar is 10 points higher.

Fruit comes with the least problems.

Bloodsugar increase from starch somewhere in between fruit and dairy.

Protein makes no problems at all, tiny increase and drops quickly again.

Coffee nukes my bloodsugar to hypoglycaemia levels.

 

[Gypsumking]

Shell fish like shrimp and scallops also work well. And raw meat digests fantastically

I think maybe that could be because the shellfish are quite low in protein. You have to eat a lot of them.
I just remember reading about a surgeon of War(I can't remember his name) where one of his patients had a severe injury that left his digestive system exposed and used it as an opportunity to see how well different foods digested. One of the things he exclaimed was how poorly raw meat digested in comparison to cooked meat.

 

[Gypsumking]

Dairy/lactose is a nightmare for my blood sugar, strong increase and stays up for hours on end.

Even next morning fasting bloodsugar is 10 points higher.

Fruit comes with the least problems.

Bloodsugar increase from starch somewhere in between fruit and dairy.

Protein makes no problems at all, tiny increase and drops quickly again.

Coffee nukes my bloodsugar to hypoglycaemia levels.

@sebastian_r How do you get on with different cheeses?

 

[Tarmander]

I think maybe that could be because the shellfish are quite low in protein. You have to eat a lot of them.
I just remember reading about a surgeon of War(I can't remember his name) where one of his patients had a severe injury that left his digestive system exposed and used it as an opportunity to see how well different foods digested. One of the things he exclaimed was how poorly raw meat digested in comparison to cooked meat.

I think you mean william beaumont

He was an interesting guy, here is a link where I learned more about him: Alexis St. Martin: The Man With A Hole In His Stomach

At one point he put a bunch of different things tied together into this guy's stomach, one of which was raw meat. I don't think any of the things including the cooked meat were digested. He did say that vegetables digested slower then meat though, which was interesting