Bleeding again, now after D3 supplement - SUPER CONFUSED

[UG Krishnamurti]

I'm beyond confused. I've started supplementing VIT D3 [30 000 IU] and gelatin [1 tbsp] four days ago and today I've started bleeding after defecating.

The same thing happened a few months ago when I supplemented Cynomel and Cynoplus and with exchanged emails with Dr. Peat we came to the conclusion that It might have been the impurities in the supplement [talc and few others]. Since I have crohn's and I can be very sensitive to the added ingredients. But now I got the same problem after D3 and gelatin [while I think it's the D3 which is causing the problem and not the gelatin] and this is the one which has been recommended to me by Dr. Peat [NOW D3, in olive oil, gelatin capsule and only glycerin as other ingredient].
Also when I started these supplements I've been getting more dry and my face is more flaky and my scalp is almost like stone-like and hard. Which always happens when I have some tissue damage inside of the body, especially the intestine. Probably because of dysregulation of calcium and increased serotonin.

I don't even know how to formulate my question and I don't even know what to ask I just know that I'm super confused about everything.

 

[Peatness]

Vitamin D thins the blood

 

[miquelangeles]

D3 supplementation increases the requirements for K2.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Vitamin D thins the blood

I know but that's not the culprit I'm sure.

The same thing happened after using Doxycycline and Cynomel and Cynoplus.
Always bleeding and hardening of the skin and scalp and general dryness and just feeling like death. No energy no will no anything. Like brain dead.
It has to be something else.

 

[Sani]

I get severe dandruff from 4000 IU D3 and extremely dry mouth. Even 1000 IU gives me mild dandruff and mild dry mouth.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

D3 supplementation increases the requirements for K2.

Until now I've always used D3 and K2 [Thorne] topical on my body and had no problems. Actually it helped me tremendously at the beginning. I've also supplementing Kuinone as well in the past few months and eating cheese and kale almost every day so I'm sure I'm not K deficient.

I have no idea what is the mechanism behind this.
I didn't get problems after topical supplementation [except occasional feeling like my intestine is very stiff]. But D3 was always with K2 as well. And I've basically fixed my eczema and scalp stiffness for a long time. And then the cascade of doxycycline/cynomel happened and I've regressed for like a year back I feel.

 

[miquelangeles]

Crohn's is associated with a reduction of faecal microbial diversity, so your endogenous production of K2 could be suboptimal to begin with, unless you were already supplementing.
K2 is produced by bacteria in the gut and antibiotics often cause a deficiency.
Few months ago I had to take a course of amoxicillin clavulanate and within a week of stopping it I developed bleeding hemorrhoids which lasted for weeks.
My last hemorrhoidal crisis was about 8 years ago, exactly after a round of amoxicillin clavulanate, so this time I made the connection. Within 3 days of K2 supplementation the bleeding stopped. Ray Peat also mentioned in a few interviews that antibiotics can cause a temporary K2 deficiency by killing the gut flora.
30 000 D3 is a huge dose which also increases the K2 requirements significantly.

 

[Peatness]

I know but that's not the culprit I'm sure.

The same thing happened after using Doxycycline and Cynomel and Cynoplus.
Always bleeding and hardening of the skin and scalp and general dryness and just feeling like death. No energy no will no anything. Like brain dead.
It has to be something else.

Sorry to hear this. Sounds like some sort of fibrosis. Perhaps get blood work done.

That much vitamin D will also tank you magnesium which could cause low mood and fatigue

 

[miquelangeles]

Until now I've always used D3 and K2 [Thorne] topical on my body and had no problems. Actually it helped me tremendously at the beginning. I've also supplementing Kuinone as well in the past few months and eating cheese and kale almost every day so I'm sure I'm not K deficient.

I have no idea what is the mechanism behind this.
I didn't get problems after topical supplementation [except occasional feeling like my intestine is very stiff]. But D3 was always with K2 as well. And I've basically fixed my eczema and scalp stiffness for a long time. And then the cascade of doxycycline/cynomel happened and I've regressed for like a year back I feel.

Not familiar with all the mechanisms but there are many papers about the interplay of D and K. Apparently D increases the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Crohn's is associated with a reduction of faecal microbial diversity, so your endogenous production of K2 could be suboptimal to begin with, unless you were already supplementing.
K2 is produced by bacteria in the gut and antibiotics often cause a deficiency.
Few months ago I had to take a course of amoxicillin clavulanate and within a week of stopping it I developed bleeding hemorrhoids which lasted for weeks.
My last hemorrhoidal crisis was about 8 years ago, exactly after a round of amoxicillin clavulanate, so this time I made the connection. Within 3 days of K2 supplementation the bleeding stopped. Ray Peat also mentioned in a few interviews that antibiotics can cause a temporary K2 deficiency by killing the gut flora.
30 000 D3 is a huge dose which also increases the K2 requirements significantly.

That is an interesting point of view.
I've known the things you are stating before but I just didn't know it could increase the need for K in 4 days. And considering I was supplementing it very recently and eating cheese and leafy greens on almost a regular basis and liver once a week I just didn't see it coming.
Your experience sounds similar to mine since I have some hemorrhoids so that is a plausible theory I just cannot corelate it with other things like Cynomel and Cynoplus.

Thanks for sharing.

Not familiar with all the mechanisms but there are many papers about the interplay of D and K. Apparently D increases the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins.

Yeah the same answer applies to you as well.
Thanks for trying to help out.

 

[Dr. B]

Sorry to hear this. Sounds like some sort of fibrosis. Perhaps get blood work done.

That much vitamin D will also tank you magnesium which could cause low mood and fatigue

does d3 have an antibiotic effect too

 

[gaze]

dont underestimate the potential problems of powdered gelatin

 

[Andman]

have you tried plain glycine powder? saved my gut from a bleeding episode when nothing else would

 

[Peatness]

does d3 have an antibiotic effect too

Looks like it

The antibiotic effects of vitamin D - PubMed

The recent discovery that vitamin D regulates expression of the cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide gene has generated renewed interest in using vitamin D to fight infectious diseases. This review describes the historical use of vitamin D or its sources to treat infections, the mechanism of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

dont underestimate the potential problems of powdered gelatin

I'm going to test them all separately as soon as my inflammation goes down and I start feeling better.

have you tried plain glycine powder? saved my gut from a bleeding episode when nothing else would

Nope. Thanks for suggesting that - I've also read a lot about glycine but reading Dr. Peat and looking through the RP Forum I came to the conclusion that Gelatin is safer and more effective. I might try it one day.

 

[Jennifer]

I’m really sorry for your suffering, @UG Krishnamurti. Besides the gelatin, the other thing that stands out to me is the glycerin. I’m not sure if it’s an issue for you but glycerin was one of my gastritis triggers and Ray has said that his own experience with it is that it can cause a lot of digestive irritation:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dV95OLzns&t=2209s

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I’m really sorry for your suffering, @UG Krishnamurti. Besides the gelatin, the other thing that stands out to me is the glycerin. I’m not sure if it’s an issue for you but glycerin was one of my gastritis triggers and Ray has said that his own experience with it is that it can cause a lot of digestive irritation:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dV95OLzns&t=2209s

Thanks Jennifer.

I know his thoughts about glycerin but funnily enough he was the one who recommended this supplement to me by sending me a link in an email. :)

It might as well could've been the glycerin as far as I'm concerned which caused inflammation. And then the increase of serotonin, estrogen and all the stress hormones followed - which would explain all the calcification and drying out of my scalp and face [since I did have similar experiences after Doxy, Cynomel and Cynoplus which also damaged my intestine and caused the same effects].

So hypothetically it could be the supplement caused the irritation and then the stress hormones did the rest - and not VIT D3.

Basically there are three theories:

1. VIT D3 is toxic
2. Glycerin caused physical damage in my intestines - causing all the problems by increasing all the stress hormones.
3. Gelatin did all of this.

As soon as I heal I'm going to experiment and I should probably know what was going on.

EDIT: He also stated in his recent email we exchanged the following:
"That would be too much orally, but probably not enough if it’s on the skin."

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Also on a side note:

Any experience with these VIT K supplements? [bulksupplements.com]

https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/vitamin-k1-1-powder?_pos=1&_sid=f2688bb0d&_ss=r&variant=32133466357871 https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/vitamin-k2-mk7?_pos=2&_sid=f2688bb0d&_ss=r&variant=32133365989487

raypeatforum.com

 

[Jennifer]

I know his thoughts about glycerin but funnily enough he was the one who recommended this supplement to me by sending me a link in an email. :)

Yeah, I did find it kind of odd that he would suggest a supplement containing glycerin given his opinion of it and your crohn’s.

 

[supercoolguy]

I know but that's not the culprit I'm sure.

The same thing happened after using Doxycycline and Cynomel and Cynoplus.
Always bleeding and hardening of the skin and scalp and general dryness and just feeling like death. No energy no will no anything. Like brain dead.
It has to be something else.

I get Heavy brain Fog from Gelatin/Collagen. Seems very clean sourced, labeled as such. (New Zeland)

Also blamed Cyno & CynoPlus. Powerful even in small doses. So i stopped the Cyno.
Still Fogged-Out.....Then It became clear this was happening about 30min after Gelatin. ONE Scoop 14g in Milk & Sugar.