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Bitcoin as opt out money, defensive technology.

jnklheimer

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they never learn bro :lol:
i dont know how to convince people. like i said id feel bad about reccomending something that makes someone lose money but everyone should get a hex bag now. i kind of just throw up my hands now when people call richard a scammer. nocoiners will refuse because of some problem they have with crypto, and the midwits will call it a scam all the way until it flips ethereum and btc. ive been telling my pro crypto fren to buy all the way from sub 10c and now i just stopped other than posting a video from richard here and there
 

nigma

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i dont know how to convince people. like i said id feel bad about reccomending something that makes someone lose money but everyone should get a hex bag now. i kind of just throw up my hands now when people call richard a scammer. nocoiners will refuse because of some problem they have with crypto, and the midwits will call it a scam all the way until it flips ethereum and btc. ive been telling my pro crypto fren to buy all the way from sub 10c and now i just stopped other than posting a video from richard here and there
I can't say I haven't been tempted with the gains. But I don't see the ultimate use case for HEX other than making some people wealthy at the expense of others.

What is the use case for hex?
 

jnklheimer

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I can't say I haven't been tempted with the gains. But I don't see the ultimate use case for HEX other than making some people wealthy at the expense of others.

What is the use case for hex?
It’s a seemingly nearly perfectly designed ethereum smart contract that replaces traditional financial instruments like CDOs and GICs. You would have been financially set for life if you had just bought a few hundred dollars worth in 2017, and still you can’t get past the use case meme. It took me a month after my first DeFi experience to understand the usecase meme is the best way to FUD myself out of wealth. The best use case is “price go up”.
 

nigma

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It’s a seemingly nearly perfectly designed ethereum smart contract that replaces traditional financial instruments like CDOs and GICs. You would have been financially set for life if you had just bought a few hundred dollars worth in 2017, and still you can’t get past the use case meme. It took me a month after my first DeFi experience to understand the usecase meme is the best way to FUD myself out of wealth. The best use case is “price go up”.
There was no hex in 2017 because Richard was a bitcoiner then. But then he got burned trading.
 

JamesGatz

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Screen Shot 2021-10-06 at 9.14.15 PM.png

Crypto is looking awfully more attractive these days - The DOW drops 500 points and BEFORE THE END OF THE DAY ... gets bought right back up again by you-know-who - everyone's wondering when the crash is coming ... it'll happen when you-know-who decides they don't want to keep it up anymore

The stock market and our USD are mind-games - bitcoin/crypto seems to be the last chance at economic freedom
 

nigma

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FDSVyEBVEAMjK6Y


Bitcoin soon to overtake silver in terms of total value. Next target would be gold at $10T.

Bitcoin is changing minds and revealing the true extent of fiat currency debasement.

In the current world, only electronic goods decrease in value overtime, but it really should be everything, since economic productivity improves overtime. The deliberate targeting of 2-3 % inflation by central banks hides this productivity improvement and makes most things more and more expensive overtime, leading to wealth inequality. Bitcoin is fixing this giant problem.
 

nigma

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so the best investment to hold long term is btc?
Well it is the best performing asset over the last 12 years. I don't see why it won't continue to be. ~70% compounded annual growth rate (CAGR). Name me a better investment or trader who can beat 70% a year, consistently.

But I dont view it as an investment. I view it as savings. Bitcoin is property, not a security. Property is very hard for most people on the planet to own. But today, anyone on the planet can own bitcoin. But you have to hold the private keys yourself, if you leave on an exchange or buy through an ETF, its not your property and could be confiscated, stolen or "lost".
 

nigma

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understood.

nano ledger ?

which cold storage do you use
Yeah, ledger hardware wallets are okay, but the company's reputation has taken a hit due to leak of all their customers emails and home addresses.

Bitcoin only hardware wallets are more secure, like coldcard, bitbox02 bitcoin-version.


 

tankasnowgod

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Bitcoin is property, not a security. Property is very hard for most people on the planet to own.

It may be defined as "property," but it's really not. Can you live on a bitcoin like you live on land? No. Can you wear a bitcoin like you wear a Rolex? No. Can you drive a Bitcoin like you drive a car? No.

You can't touch, taste, smell, hear, or see a bitcoin. It only exists as digits spread across computers. In truth, it's just a distributed public ledger protected by cryptography. It's not true "money of exchange," because it relies on a third party ledger (though that ledger is harder to hide or corrupt). It's still based on debt, and it's still money of account. In many ways, it solves issues with money of account that has been abused by central banks and governments for centuries. But it still has it's own problems, and it can still be manipulated, whether directly or indirectly.
 

tankasnowgod

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so the best investment to hold long term is btc?

The potential problem with holding BTC "Long Term" is that any "value" you hold is still based on double entry accounting, a ledger based system.

It's hard to say what the best investment will be "Long Term." Keep in mind a huge reason for the rise in price of bitcoin over the past decade plus was it's newness. You can see similar growth and chart patterns in stocks that "Made It," if you go back and look at things like Amazon and Google/Alphabet and such. Their growth will often times be muted in the charts, as "stock splits" are common. That's part of the reason the price of 1 BTC looks more like a share of Berkshire Hathaway (which never split) than Microsoft (which split several times).
 

nigma

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It may be defined as "property," but it's really not. Can you live on a bitcoin like you live on land? No. Can you wear a bitcoin like you wear a Rolex? No. Can you drive a Bitcoin like you drive a car? No.

You can't touch, taste, smell, hear, or see a bitcoin. It only exists as digits spread across computers. In truth, it's just a distributed public ledger protected by cryptography. It's not true "money of exchange," because it relies on a third party ledger (though that ledger is harder to hide or corrupt). It's still based on debt, and it's still money of account. In many ways, it solves issues with money of account that has been abused by central banks and governments for centuries. But it still has it's own problems, and it can still be manipulated, whether directly or indirectly.
I should've said digital property.

But your missing the point, even physical property like land is only yours so long as you can occupy and defend it, or live in a society where people respect the rule of law and wont use your land without your permission. This means your "physical property" is highly dependent on factors other than you, it is the same with bitcoin.

Today anyone can travel the world, visit whatever place (ignoring covid for a second) with a piece of plastic, i.e. credit card, it is digital money. It works for doing things in the physical world, which is ultimately what one wants. The main thing that the current digital financial system lacks is the ability to use that credit card over long spans of time... because of all the money printing, everything costs more overtime where it should be the opposite.

Bitcoin is not based on debt, what do you mean?

Give me an example of how bitcoin can be manipulated?
 

tankasnowgod

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Today anyone can travel the world, visit whatever place (ignoring covid for a second) with a piece of plastic, i.e. credit card, it is digital money. It works for doing things in the physical world, which is ultimately what one wants. The main thing that the current digital financial system lacks is the ability to use that credit card over long spans of time... because of all the money printing, everything costs more overtime where it should be the opposite.
I didn't miss the point at all. I flat out stated that it solves a lot of issues of "money of account." But it's absolutely still "money of account."
Bitcoin is not based on debt, what do you mean?
Yes, it is. It has to be. It's Money of Account, based on Dual Entry Accounting. That's a Zero Sum game. Since nothing new is being created, it's only a representation of value between individuals.
Give me an example of how bitcoin can be manipulated?
You've seen it if you've been paying attention the past few years..... through news stories, through dumping huge amounts on the open market at key times (like the Mt. Gox trustee did), manipulating exchanges (amazing how wallets go "under maintenance" at key times), and through regulation. Maybe it's not direct on the network, but it's indirect on the value. It went from a high of almost $20,000 in 2017 to a low under $4,000 in 2018.
 

superhappy

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Hex didn't come out in 2017, it came out on dec 2019. Was the highest performing asset in 2020 and crypto world still don't know about it cuz they are all occupied with nfts and other animal named coins.
 

nigma

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I didn't miss the point at all. I flat out stated that it solves a lot of issues of "money of account." But it's absolutely still "money of account."

Yes, it is. It has to be. It's Money of Account, based on Dual Entry Accounting. That's a Zero Sum game. Since nothing new is being created, it's only a representation of value between individuals.

I'm not familiar with the term "money of account", is there any other kind of money? As far as I know gold is the best money that came before bitcoin. But even gold is only worth what people want for it, its just subjective value. The closest value it had to anything real was what it cost to mine it. Bitcoin is the same since it uses proof-of-work. If it were only accounting then I see your point. But with bitcoin, electricity has to be expended in the real way to mine it, or you have to trade something of value with someone who will sell you their bitcoin, it all requires work.

You've seen it if you've been paying attention the past few years..... through news stories, through dumping huge amounts on the open market at key times (like the Mt. Gox trustee did), manipulating exchanges (amazing how wallets go "under maintenance" at key times), and through regulation. Maybe it's not direct on the network, but it's indirect on the value. It went from a high of almost $20,000 in 2017 to a low under $4,000 in 2018.

Yeah I meant how can the bitcoin network or protocol be manipulated. The fact that the price can be manipulated is a good thing, its a free market. The more free market the better for bitcoin.

Its common for a new thing to be mis valued, as the market is learning what it is. Amazon price went down 90%+ more than once I understand.
 

tankasnowgod

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I'm not familiar with the term "money of account", is there any other kind of money?
Yes. Money of Exchange.
As far as I know gold is the best money that came before bitcoin. But even gold is only worth what people want for it, its just subjective value. The closest value it had to anything real was what it cost to mine it.
True.
Bitcoin is the same since it uses proof-of-work.
Uh, no. It's not the same. If all gold stopped being mined tomorrow, gold that you hold in your hand wouldn't suddenly go to zero. It would likely go up in value.

However, if Bitcoin Mining stops...... It's done. There is no value, because there is no way to transact. This is the difference between "Money of Account" and "Money of Exchange."
If it were only accounting then I see your point. But with bitcoin, electricity has to be expended in the real way to mine it, or you have to trade something of value with someone who will sell you their bitcoin, it all requires work.
But you aren't "trading" anything of value. It's digital entries in a ledger. It requires "work," but so does banking, printing money, and other accounting functions.

And plenty of exchanges are willing to take unbacked, fiat dollars in exchange for Bitcoin. So much for this trading "something of value." This is the same thing that give Federal Reserve Notes value. I can take those to the store, and buy food or whatever. And it's a lot easier to trade those promissory notes for goods and services than it is to trade Bitcoin or other cryptos for goods and services (though it is possible, and it has been growing).

It's not "value for value" like exchanging a gold piece for suit, where the gold buys the suit, and the suit buys the gold. But with both FRNs and Bitcoin, you are simply "discharging debt."
Yeah I meant how can the bitcoin network or protocol be manipulated. The fact that the price can be manipulated is a good thing, its a free market. The more free market the better for bitcoin.
Lol, I don't think you really understand what a "Free Market" is. How, exactly, can it be a "Free Market" when Governments can push the price around with legislation, rules, or threats thereof?
Its common for a new thing to be mis valued, as the market is learning what it is. Amazon price went down 90%+ more than once I understand.
Maybe it's not "The Market Learning," but a change in the value of something. When Amazon dropped from $114 to $7 in 2001, it was NOT the same company it is today. They sold books. Annnnnnnd...... that's pretty much it. They were a tiny retailer. Now, they are obviously massive.

But, if they were "Mis Valued" in the past, what makes you think the valuation in the present is any better?
 
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