Bitcoin as opt out money, defensive technology.

[nigma]

View: https://vijayboyapati.medium.com/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1

 

[Aad]

Nah, not even close. That would have to be Federal Reserve Notes. The Fed even puts out documentation telling everyone that their currency has no intrinsic value. Or Maybe the stock market, or derivatives. The amount invested in all of crypto is tiny, compared to all of those things.

And when you say "implode," what do you mean? Lose 80-90% of it's value? The network goes down? It goes to zero?

The US dollar is backed by oil.

Once Governments introduce their own digital coins (China will be the first), ALL current cryptocurrencies will be evaporated, annihilated, banned, smoked, rendered totally useless etc etc.

I can not comprehend that you can not see this coming.

It's like a freakin cult.

 

[nigma]

The US dollar is backed by oil.

Once Governments introduce their own digital coins (China will be the first), ALL current cryptocurrencies will be evaporated, annihilated, banned, smoked, rendered totally useless etc etc.

I can not comprehend that you can not see this coming.

It's like a freakin cult.

What will peoples incentive be to give up their bitcoin for a government coin? I can tell you I won't be.

How do you see a government digital coin as an improvement over the current government digital coins? You realise modern banking already has gone digital?

Bitcoin is vastly superior to anything any government will come up with. I bet their monetary policy will not be like bitcoins.

Doesn't it make people wonder, why governments are advertising that they are copying bitcoin?

 

[mariantos]

The fact that paper money can easily be burnt and that silver and Gold are not easily destroyed is not an argument for which should be money. Someone can burn down and kill your entire neighborhood. Does that make it worthless? You can salt the earth so that crops no longer grow, does that mean the land was worthless?

Money is a token. How the token is managed is what determines whether it is a good form of money. Real Wealth is what you plan to exchange the token for. Land, Food, health of your community, it's skills and ability to work, natural resources, etc. Fiat, yes "paper money", can be superior to Silver and Gold if it is used properly. Or it can be worse.

Anyone who tries to push that only Gold and Silver are suitable as Money is attempting to remove the human and living element from Money so that it can be invulnerable, but that's a complete understanding of what Money is.

Tread carefully among Goldbugs, Blood is worth more than Gold. They will tell you otherwise in roundabout ways.

You don't seem to understand, nothing I wrote. What is the relevance of the neighborhood and the salt of the earth in the discussion about money?

In my opinion, I presented to you the decadence of money*, which is obvious. For you, yes, paper is worth more, I also expressed this when I referred to indoctrination, I thought about these people, but I wrote "we" out of politeness. For me, paper is paper.

As for blood, blood is far more valuable than anything, for through innocent blood my soul has been redeemed, there can be no doubt.

* Money

 

[mariantos]

I used to be a gold bug, people think gold and silver have intrinsic value, but they do not, they are just lumps of metal. It is only people and culture that place value in to them, why do they do this? Studying the history of gold will teach someone that it became the best money because of a certain properties, i.e. it is rare, and takes a lot of work to produce by mining, and can't be easily counterfeited, stores value over time, etc. Bitcoin has come along and surpassed these properties. The price of bitcoin rising continuously indicates more of the worlds population has understood it is the new best money.

The reason I believe it cannot disappear overnight is because I understand what other bitcoin holders, miners, and other players in the game are thinking and motivated by. They all have incentives to continue to keep bitcoin alive. The whole point is that it is truly decentralized and therefore not susceptible to a centralized attack, e.g. government. People should understand that bitcoin was designed to be attacked by various parties, this has happened many times in the past (e.g. block-size wars in 2017, china ban x100, "etherium is the new bitcoin", Craig Wright "I am the real satoshi") yet it lives on and its value continues to rise.

In the event of a natural disaster, it is usually a localised event and so internet and electricity is down for a time, but then eventually restored. Bitcoin is savings technology and does not require the internet in local region to retain its value. I'm not betting on a world wide disaster. If that were to happen, sure gold might be better, but at that point most of the worlds population would perish and there would be much bigger problems than what kind of money to use, people would just use whatever works, but I'm not planning for that scenario and neither do most people.

Also, when people say government will shut it down, do they understand that China banned bitcoin, but this did not result in bitcoin disappearing, why would the US government has any better impact than China?

I understand your point of view, you gave your own answer to your incipient question!

That is why gold is valuable, due to the work that is required to obtain and process it.

You said for a period of time, even if it were as you say, that period of time requires currency for survival, currency that will be in digital format, that is why I originally wrote that this currency, which will soon be used globally, has no guarantee, the history of mankind teaches us that we must expect more suffering than "a period" of time, when problems are really established!

 

[tankasnowgod]

The US dollar is backed by oil.

No, it's not. You can't go to the Federal Reserve and "redeem" it for oil. It's not backed by anything.

If you really think it is, I challenge you to point to the sentence in "Modern Money Mechanics," or any other Federal Reserve publication, that states that the dollar is backed by oil.

Once Governments introduce their own digital coins (China will be the first), ALL current cryptocurrencies will be evaporated, annihilated, banned, smoked, rendered totally useless etc etc.

Riiiiight. Just like gold, silver, diamonds and such evaporated and got banned and were rendered totally useless after 1913, correct?

It's almost like you don't understand Public and Private, and are unaware of the concept of a "black market."

I can not comprehend that you can not see this coming.

Because you are just making stuff up. The Government is a creation of man. They don't have the final say of value.

 

[michael94]

d

You don't seem to understand, nothing I wrote. What is the relevance of the neighborhood and the salt of the earth in the discussion about money?

In my opinion, I presented to you the decadence of money*, which is obvious. For you, yes, paper is worth more, I also expressed this when I referred to indoctrination, I thought about these people, but I wrote "we" out of politeness. For me, paper is paper.

As for blood, blood is far more valuable than anything, for through innocent blood my soul has been redeemed, there can be no doubt.

* Money

You have misunderstood as well. Yes Paper is Paper, that is not the point. Money is a token. No one is saying the paper itself is valuable... What gives the token value is the people, resources, ingenuity, and WORK behind the token. That is what gives Money value.

Monetarism is one big circle jerk to distract from the fact that your money, paper, silver, Gold etc. are worthless without work and skills behind them. So if a Government decides that they don't need Silver or Gold and organize their currency in accordance with productive activity, they can even use paper. And no I'm not talking about the United States, because our Money is run by Private Banks. Paper is barely 2% of the entire money supply.

@tankasnowgod The fact that Government is a creation of Man is not what makes it bad. Our Government is run by corrupt people and our Money supply is run by Private Banks that have us enslaved. The corrupt people in our Government, in concert with the media running cover for them and the Banks are what makes the Government bad. If our Government was filled with honest and noble people and Private Banks had zero say in the Money supply, things would be much different.

I can't agree that we should discard the idea of Government controlling the money supply altogether. A School is a creation of Man too, what makes it good or bad is the people that make up the School.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@tankasnowgod The fact that Government is a creation of Man is not what makes it bad.

I didn't explicitly state or imply that it does. I merely stated that the government, itself, doesn't have the last say on value, or what can and can't be used as money.

I agree with your thinking about money basically being a representation of labor, or energy. If you were stranded on a desert island along with a million ounces of gold coins, they wouldn't do all that much for you. An abandoned house or supply of unperishable food would be far more valuable.

Our Government is run by corrupt people and our Money supply is run by Private Banks that have us enslaved. The corrupt people in our Government, in concert with the media running cover for them and the Banks are what makes the Government bad. If our Government was filled with honest and noble people and Private Banks had zero say in the Money supply, things would be much different.

I pretty much agree with this.

I can't agree that we should discard the idea of Government controlling the money supply altogether. A School is a creation of Man too, what makes it good or bad is the people that make up the School.

I didn't suggest that the Government should have no role.

 

[gaze]

@tankasnowgod The fact that Government is a creation of Man is not what makes it bad. Our Government is run by corrupt people and our Money supply is run by Private Banks that have us enslaved. The corrupt people in our Government, in concert with the media running cover for them and the Banks are what makes the Government bad. If our Government was filled with honest and noble people and Private Banks had zero say in the Money supply, things would be much different.

relatively speaking, the US is much less corrupt than other nations in the world, mainly due to more oversight and transparency laws, which often fall short, but are still better than nothing. Everyone knows corporations and banks influence the government because its all on record, Americas problem is that the population just doesnt give a F***. In other countries the population doesn't even know what happens because its all behind closed doors. Also you cant just get rid of private bank influence with a stronger central bank and just pray things turn out good.

 

[michael94]

relatively speaking, the US is much less corrupt than other nations in the world, mainly due to more oversight and transparency laws, which often fall short, but are still better than nothing. You cant get rid of private bank influence with a stronger central bank and just pray things turn out good.

Private Banks basically control our entire money supply. Since we are talking about paper money, that's only around 2% of all U.S. Dollars in existence, and even less for coins. Digital Reserves are also just a small fraction. Most "U.S. Dollars" come into existence when Banks give out loans and just exist as digital balances in accounts. The technical term is M1 money.

There is no need to pray, just a law change about Fractional Reserve Banking so that private Banks can't create new Money at Usury.

This has been attempted several times recently

2018 Swiss sovereign-money initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Switzerland and before that Iceland ( 2015 ) and the United States ( 2011 N.E.E.D. Act ).

 

[gaze]

Private Banks basically control our entire money supply. Since we are talking about paper money, that's only around 2% of all U.S. Dollars in existence, and even less for coins. Digital Reserves are also just a small fraction. Most "U.S. Dollars" come into existence when Banks give out loans and just exist as digital balances in accounts. The technical term is M1 money.

There is no need to pray, just a law change about Fractional Reserve Banking so that private Banks can't create new Money at Usury.

This has been attempted several times recently

2018 Swiss sovereign-money initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Switzerland and before that Iceland ( 2015 ) and the United States ( 2011 N.E.E.D. Act ).

so people would only be able to get loans from the national bank?

 

[michael94]

so people would only be able to get loans from the national bank?

The National/Central Bank would make loans to the Private Banks and the Private Banks could then loan that out. The difference being that they could only loan out what they actually have, as opposed to now where they just create new deposits on a small fraction of Central Bank created Reserves.

Also loaning is not the only (and not always the best) way for new money to reach the economy. You can spend it into the economy for infrastructure and other things. This is basically what the N.E.E.D. Act proposed. They also proposed a Citizen's dividend to help people recoup some of the money that has been stolen from them.

NEED Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Something to keep in mind is that part of the reason things are so expensive (mostly housing) IS BECAUSE OF the way private Banks create new money. Something like 70% of all new loans go towards real estate (not sure the exact figure). So new money is pumping up housing costs immensely.

 

[gaze]

The National/Central Bank would make loans to the Private Banks and the Private Banks could then loan that out. The difference being that they could only loan out what they actually have, as opposed to now where they just create new deposits on a small fraction of Central Bank created Reserves.

Also loaning is not the only (and not always the best) way for new money to reach the economy. You can spend it into the economy for infrastructure and other things. This is basically what the N.E.E.D. Act proposed. They also proposed a Citizen's dividend to help people recoup some of the money that has been stolen from them.

NEED Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Something to keep in mind is that part of the reason things are so expensive (mostly housing) IS BECAUSE OF the way private Banks create new money. Something like 70% of all new loans go towards real estate (not sure the exact figure). So new money is pumping up housing costs immensely.

its all fun and games until the national bank tells banks it will stop giving them loans unless they stop giving loans to groups of people such as the unvaccinated. Say what you want about private banks and the preditory credit system, but theyre only after profit. Once the national bank is involved, the goal becomes not profit but other social agendas, and theyll find ways to leverege social credit which would be much worse than monetary credit to determine who gets loans.

 

[jnklheimer]

Richard Heart's HEX token seems like a scam to me, people have to lock in their tokens for long periods of time. Been following him from a distance since 2017. Just saying what I think.

you don't have to lock anything. amazing you followed since 2017 and missed this basic thing about it. even more amazing you knew about him since 2017 and missed out on the 98459834095x since it launched.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Private Banks basically control our entire money supply.

But that's only because most people don't think to, or know how to, negotiate with THE UNITED STATES to create and circulate their own negotiable instruments.

There is no money. In our current system, it's only debits and credits.

 

[michael94]

its all fun and games until the national bank tells banks it will stop giving them loans unless they stop giving loans to groups of people such as the unvaccinated. Say what you want about private banks and the preditory credit system, but theyre only after profit. Once the national bank is involved, the goal becomes not profit but other social agendas, and theyll find ways to leverege social credit which would be much worse than monetary credit to determine who gets loans.

Then people need to overthrow the Government. In fact, most people dont understand how money works and if the Government was in charge of it, they could actually see what is going on instead of trying to follow a pea and shell game. In the meantime, there is no need for hypotheticals with the private Bank control of our money supply. It already happened and honest working people are being screwed constantly because of it.

 

[eat my peat]

So the best place to store money aside from gold & silver?

Property. Companies. Crypto.

Anything else?

 

[nigma]

So the best place to store money aside from gold & silver?

Property. Companies. Crypto.

Anything else?

 

[nigma]

View: https://jimmysong.medium.com/why-blockchain-is-hard-60416ea4c5c

 

[superhappy]

you don't have to lock anything. amazing you followed since 2017 and missed this basic thing about it. even more amazing you knew about him since 2017 and missed out on the 98459834095x since it launched.

they never learn bro