Biofilm Annihilation

[Kyle M]

Have you tried raw garlic and ginger?

I tried a hardcore garlic protocol twice, didn't work.

 

[Kyle M]

Acne?

No not really.

 

[meatbag]

I am about to start a regimen for SIBO. This is going to be my 4th or so big attempt at dealing with this, so I can't say I'm very hopeful. Here's a short background:

Started noticing gut bloating and gas after eating carbohydrates after adding them back into my diet following several years of low carb, paleo type dieting.

Tried the 1st line of Ray Peat antibiotic stuff, like raw carrot and bamboo shoots. No results from that.

Finally got a doctor to prescribe Rifaximin. I don't remember the dose or the exact length, but it was 7-10 days. No results, maybe dose was too low
OR
the drugs didn't get to the bacteria because of a biofilm.

After reading of the results some have had from intense raw garlic treatment, I tried that. Twice. No results. This was a particular heart breaker as it seems to make a lot of sense, garlic is supposed to be a biofilm buster and antibiotic. Also the treatment was hellish.

Finally took a hydrogen and methane breath test. Used the glucose one, because you need a prescription in the US to get the lactulose test. Results came back inconclusive/negative. CO2 control values were slightly below good, but still perhaps acceptable.

I am still convinced my problem is bacterial, since there isn't any other way to produce gas in the gut from food. I'm disappointed with the test results being unclear, but ultimately it doesn't matter what the test says.

I put together a treatment protocol based mostly on stuff from fixyourgut.com, and will be starting it tonight as the supplements are likely waiting for me at home from Amazon. I'm going to rotate, for a month or so, between 2 biofilm disrupters, Interphase Plus and Jarrow Formulas NAC. I'm going to focus on Interphase Plus because fixyourgut.com recommends them most highly. For an antibiotic, I will rotate between another 3 recommendations from that site: peppermint oil (which has some soybean oil in it, oh well), oregano oil, and Allicin-C.

My plan is to dose twice a day, once in the morning on an empty stomach and once at night also on an empty stomach. I plan on taking the biofilm disrupter first, and then 5-10 or so minutes later taking the antibiotic. After a couple of weeks I'll switch the antibiotic, and then switch again. I'll try switching the biofilm disrupter as well, maybe 3 weeks in. With the amount of pills and capsules I got from my order, I should have enough to do this for about 6 weeks. If I don't get results from this, I have one more thing to try, that being S. boulardii. Hopefully something happens, I hate the symptoms, I hate trying to get doctors to help me with it, and I hate the idea of a doctor doing an upper GI scope aspiration to satisfy their diagnosis.

Wish me luck, I will at the very least post whether I get results or not, if not some interval updates.

Do you notice a difference with how you feel after eating depending on the time of day? Like more bloat is caused after eating in the morning example?

Also how do you generally feel when you wake up? Very heavy limbed with a bit of puffiness in the face and cloudy in the head until after coffee? A bit weak until after eating and some caffeine?

Any blood work?

 

[Kyle M]

Do you notice a difference with how you feel after eating depending on the time of day? Like more bloat is caused after eating in the morning example?

Also how do you generally feel when you wake up? Very heavy limbed with a bit of puffiness in the face and cloudy in the head until after coffee? A bit weak until after eating and some caffeine?

Any blood work?

Good questions. I do notice more bloating in the day than the night. I feel like I am a night person, and that my mood and metabolism are ramped up after dark.

I wouldn't say I am too heavy limbed, but do have some face puffiness upon waking. I also never like waking up early, no matter how much sleep I get. I would rather sleep, for example, 8 hours from 3 a.m. to 11 a.m. than 8 hours from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

I had some basic blood work done in July, what assays are you wondering about? I also had a stool test done (again) to show that (again) I don't have parasites.

 

[meatbag]

Good questions. I do notice more bloating in the day than the night. I feel like I am a night person, and that my mood and metabolism are ramped up after dark.

I wouldn't say I am too heavy limbed, but do have some face puffiness upon waking. I also never like waking up early, no matter how much sleep I get. I would rather sleep, for example, 8 hours from 3 a.m. to 11 a.m. than 8 hours from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

I had some basic blood work done in July, what assays are you wondering about? I also had a stool test done (again) to show that (again) I don't have parasites.

Okay, yeah I kind of had the same thing after eating for long time and it seemed to start when I did low carb junior year of HS and just continually got worse and kind of hit a peak when I did intermittent fasting and after some other health issues. Obviously you eat a lot of food at once doing IF but even when I would eat my first smaller meal back then I noticed a lot of bloat and just eating made me feel bad and all puffed up. I also had the weakness and a lot of puffiness in the A.M.

Anyways that is actually something that has improved a lot for me since I started the whole peat thing, etc. I've also used 2 rounds of minocycline, some penicillin and use thyroid,pregnenolone since then so that could've helped to, along with other stuff like oxidial and cyproheptadine. I'm not really sure what the solution is but I had a similar issue that seems to have gotten a lot better lately and now I actually kind of notice the opposite like I feel way better after eating.

Part of me wonders if its a PTH,vit d, calcium thing that starts with excessive meat intake and just generally throws digestion and certain rythyms out of whack. I saw a girl for awhile who did the whole low carb thing and ate a lot of meat and she was similar-night owl, puffiness, weak handed without coffee, bloated and slow after eating. I think things besides infections can cause the bloating or just feeling bad after eating if it isn't something that's feeling bad down low into the gut which feels kind of different

Have you ever tried thyroid?

 

[Kyle M]

Part of me wonders if its a PTH,vit d, calcium thing that starts with excessive meat intake and just generally throws digestion and certain rythyms out of whack. I saw a girl for awhile who did the whole low carb thing and ate a lot of meat and she was similar-night owl, puffiness, weak handed without coffee, bloated and slow after eating. I think things besides infections can cause the bloating or just feeling bad after eating if it isn't something that's feeling bad down low into the gut which feels kind of different

Have you ever tried thyroid?

I haven't tried thyroid, but I want to. In fact I was planning on buying some soon.

Just to be clear, when I say "bloating" I mean gas production in my gut that distends my belly, not water retention. Also, even though I feel sleepy in the morning, I don't feel very weak. I do feel stronger later in the day and at night though, but I've always been this way, since I was a teenager, and my digestion was awesome then. People kept telling me I would grow out of being a night person, and I've had jobs where I had to get up very early for years, but still at 33 if I had my choice I would prefer staying up later and sleeping late into the morning.

 

[meatbag]

I haven't tried thyroid, but I want to. In fact I was planning on buying some soon.

Just to be clear, when I say "bloating" I mean gas production in my gut that distends my belly, not water retention. Also, even though I feel sleepy in the morning, I don't feel very weak. I do feel stronger later in the day and at night though, but I've always been this way, since I was a teenager, and my digestion was awesome then. People kept telling me I would grow out of being a night person, and I've had jobs where I had to get up very early for years, but still at 33 if I had my choice I would prefer staying up later and sleeping late into the morning.

did the stool test test for fungus/yeast?
Did you ever get a fungal infection while lowcarbing or using the antibiotics?
You didn't notice anything at all from the redlight-feelings in the gut when applied, gas release, light headedness, etc.? which device was it that you used?
what was your blood vitamin d?

 

[meatbag]

did the stool test test for fungus/yeast? Did you ever get a fungal infection while lowcarbing or using the antibiotics? You didn't notice anything at all from the redlight-feelings in the gut when applied, gas release, light headedness, etc.? which device was it that you used? what was your blood vitamin d?

Sorry for all the questions, I was reading a couple different things at once. Rude of me.

I wonder if it is fungal overgrowth from lowcarbing like Peat describes here;
I developed one (fungal infection) back when I was doing carbcycling ans used an antibiotic.


I thought I remembered peat saying people under certain a vitamin d level were much more susceptiable to fungal infection (cant find it right now...newsletters are all over the place), and I remembered in that Danny roddy podcast you mentioned you ate nothing but meat forawhile. I wonder if that could have created a situation making you more susceptible to fungus

The redlight seems to have a strong effect on yeasts, so it's possible that could have an effect;Red Light Therapy Treats Yeast Infections - Red Light Man

Not sure if the device you had used would penetrate though. I remember when I used mine on my stomach forawhile I got some weird feelings. I wonder if quinones and methylene blue would be helpful; Oxidal - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Oxidation Support
It just seems like the amount of Rifaxamin you used would've wiped out a bacterial problem at that level, and that the issue persists suggests bacteria isn't the issue

 

[Kyle M]

did the stool test test for fungus/yeast?
Did you ever get a fungal infection while lowcarbing or using the antibiotics?
You didn't notice anything at all from the redlight-feelings in the gut when applied, gas release, light headedness, etc.? which device was it that you used?
what was your blood vitamin d?

I don't remember if the stool tested for that, but I've never had a fungal infection that I was aware of.

I didn't use red light on my tummy enough times to really say if there are effects, I'd like to try it again. I have a regular red LED light.

Looking at past blood work, in 2014 my vitamin D was deficient, 21 ng/dL reference range 25-80. I had a blood test this year but can't figure out how to navigate the online repository as my health insurance has been in flux recently and trying to figure it out when I have other things to do makes me want to kill someone. I just started taking vitamin D, in smoothies in liquid form.

 

[Kyle M]

It just seems like the amount of Rifaxamin you used would've wiped out a bacterial problem at that level, and that the issue persists suggests bacteria isn't the issue

Unless there is a strong persistent biofilm, that's why I'm going to try a course of EDTA along with antibiotics.

 

[oldfriend]

Unless there is a strong persistent biofilm, that's why I'm going to try a course of EDTA along with antibiotics.

Any updates?

 

[Kyle M]

Any updates?

Giving Nystatin a try, along with cyproheptidine on the premise that maybe it's gut serotonin running the show rather than the microbes. A pretty strong treatment of antibiotics didn't do much, getting to the end of things to try qua bacteria specifically.

 

[EIRE24]

Giving Nystatin a try, along with cyproheptidine on the premise that maybe it's gut serotonin running the show rather than the microbes. A pretty strong treatment of antibiotics didn't do much, getting to the end of things to try qua bacteria specifically.

What antibiotics did you use and what dosage? Did you note any benefits from it?

 

[Kyle M]

What antibiotics did you use and what dosage? Did you note any benefits from it?

Rifaximin (400 mg 3x/day) and Neomycin (had to eyeball it, somewhere around 500 mg 3x/day, mixing powder in water). No benefit, very confusing.

 

[EIRE24]

Rifaximin (400 mg 3x/day) and Neomycin (had to eyeball it, somewhere around 500 mg 3x/day, mixing powder in water). No benefit, very confusing.

I have a bad gut and also some acne. I have some amoxicilin on hand but dont want to create a worse situation if the abx doesnt work

 

[Kyle M]

I have a bad gut and also some acne. I have some amoxicilin on hand but dont want to create a worse situation if the abx doesnt work

Luckily I don't have the acne problem but sometimes, especially when the weather changes (humidity I think), my facial skin goes through a phase of being dry and flaking off, and I can build up sebum on other skin areas. I'm pretty sure it's at least partially related to microbes in the gut.

 

[EIRE24]

Luckily I don't have the acne problem but sometimes, especially when the weather changes (humidity I think), my facial skin goes through a phase of being dry and flaking off, and I can build up sebum on other skin areas. I'm pretty sure it's at least partially related to microbes in the gut.

That makes sense about the humidity and sebum building up around dead skin. Yea, maybe so. I will try antibiotics soon.

 

[oldfriend]

I'm going to start a regimen for tackling gut dysbiosis this month. Any recommendations / insights from personal experience are much appreciated.

For the first two weeks I'm taking:

Methylene Blue - about 10mg in the morning with OJ for vitamin C
2-3 raw carrots in the AM
Nutrivee Prebiotic and a probiotic with lunch
Sodium Acetate after most meals

2nd two weeks will continue with my plan from the first two weeks, except for maybe probiotics, and add:
Turpentine ( recommend a dose?)
Pepto-bismol ( " " )

Afterwards:
Follow up with an antibiotic like rifixamin
Follow that with Miyarisan (Clostridium Butyricum), and Equilibrium Probiotic

Notes:
I would add Cascara to the mix, but the carrots have things moving along much quicker than I'm used to and I don't want tax my digestive capabilities too much. Maybe it won't have a bad effect?

For anybody who's struggling with fungus, I highly recommend Sodium Acetate which I discovered in an article about SIBO on www.fuckportioncontrol.com. I've had a patch of fungus on my pubic area for years, and after supplementing with Sodium Acetate for a few days it completely disappeared.

I will be using prepared horseradish once or twice a day for endotoxin relief

 

[michael94]

guaifenesin

 

[oldfriend]

guaifenesin

Nice. I forgot to mention that I might take a couple of digestive enzyme capsules on an empty stomach before bed.