Bio-identical Dht Vs Synthetic Dht

[restinpeace]

dht makes old men feel good there is free testosterone without side effect lowish dht with lowish estro high free t hormonal profile of greek gods anything less than 1000+total t wont cut me life starts again with these t levels you boys will feel invincible trust me on this.

 

[ddjd]

dht makes old men feel good there is free testosterone without side effect lowish dht with lowish estro high free t hormonal profile of greek gods anything less than 1000+total t wont cut me life starts again with these t levels you boys will feel invincible trust me on this.

sorry i dont quite understand what you mean. does DHT increase free testosterone? and then you said lowish dht = profile of greek gods? does dht increase total T?

 

[restinpeace]

free testosterone is what matters dht upregulated to counter high estrogen low testosterone environment. keep t high estro low, dht in excess is a bad thing.

 

[LCohen]

Isn't more DHT suppresses Free T ?

 

[ddjd]

-liver toxic

Are you sure it's liver toxic??

 

[Wagner83]

He experienced verified liver issues.

 

[ddjd]

He experienced verified liver issues.

@Rio in this thread is claiming proviron causes no liver toxicity

Testosterone Ideas

 

[ddjd]

@haidut I did a search but couldn't find what your stance is on proviron. Is it safe? And if choosing between proviron or Chinese source bio-identical dht what would you go for?

 

[haidut]

He experienced verified liver issues.

Who did and from what - Proviron?

 

[haidut]

@haidut I did a search but couldn't find what your stance is on proviron. Is it safe? And if choosing between proviron or Chinese source bio-identical dht what would you go for?

It is supposed to be one of of the safer methylated DHT derivatives but liver issue reports still exist. Same with oxandrolone - safer than other strong androgens but even at 10mg was shown to elevate liver enzymes in some people. None of this has been observed with bioidentical DHT in humans or animal models or androsterone (mostly animal studies for androsterone).

 

[ddjd]

Who did and from what - Proviron?

Yes I think he means the OP - @Stud , liver toxicity from proviron supposedly. But @Rio claims it's not toxic in a separate thread

 

[ddjd]

It is supposed to be one of of the safer methylated DHT derivatives but liver issue reports still exist. Same with oxandrolone - safer than other strong androgens but even at 10mg was shown to elevate liver enzymes in some people. None of this has been observed with bioidentical DHT in humans or animal models or androsterone (mostly animal studies for androsterone).

Thanks for that. Any thoughts on Primoboblan?

 

[haidut]

Yes I think he means the OP - @Stud , liver toxicity from proviron supposedly. But @Rio claims it's not toxic in a separate thread

It does not matter who claims what. If it caused liver issues that's what counts, especially given the other reports in the scientific literature about elevated liver enzymes. Given that oxandro also elevates liver enzymes I would be careful about any of those synthetic derivatives.

 

[haidut]

Thanks for that. Any thoughts on Primoboblan?

Primobolan is incorrectly called a DHT derivative when in fact it has a double bond at C-1, which makes it technically a 1-testosterone derivative. Again, probably safer than more unsaturated steroids but the methyl group at C-1 is still troubling. The addition of these strange methyl groups at various places is probably done to inhibit metabolism and prolong effects of the steroid. This is a bad way to do it. There is a much safer way and it is by attaching an adamantane group, which was proven to be non-toxic and not cause liver issues or allow aromatization.
The adamantyl group in medicinal agents. II. Anabolic steroid 17-beta-adamantoates. - PubMed - NCBI
A prime example of such a steroid is Bolmantalate, but it is basically impossible to find unless you pay somebody to custom synthesize it. Bolmantalate has a half life of 3-4 weeks, so a single low dose of even 5mg can be highly anabolic with almost no risk for side effects, both due to the structure of the molecule and the very low dose needed.
Bolmantalate - Wikipedia

A simple mixture of adamantane or any of its derivatives and a steroid (or any chemical for that matter) would probably have a similar prolonging half life and effects, though not nearly as much as when it is reacted with the molecule. Quite a few people reported potentiation of Pansterone, CortiNon, Gonadin, etc when combined with adamantane.

If somebody creates the DHT version of Bolmantalate and brings it to market, it will probably put out of business most steroid dealers as there would be no need for any other androgen except that one and maybe adding a little DHEA or bioidentical testosterone to prevent estrogen from going too low.

 

[Wagner83]

Primobolan is incorrectly called a DHT derivative when in fact it has a double bond at C-1, which makes it technically a 1-testosterone derivative. Again, probably safer than more unsaturated steroids but the methyl group at C-1 is still troubling. The addition of these strange methyl groups at various places is probably done to inhibit metabolism and prolong effects of the steroid. This is a bad way to do it. There is a much safer way and it is by attaching an adamantane group, which was proven to be non-toxic and not cause liver issues or allow aromatization.
The adamantyl group in medicinal agents. II. Anabolic steroid 17-beta-adamantoates. - PubMed - NCBI
A prime example of such a steroid is Bolmantalate, but it is basically impossible to find unless you pay somebody to custom synthesize it. Bolmantalate has a half life of 3-4 weeks, so a single low dose of even 5mg can be highly anabolic with almost no risk for side effects, both due to the structure of the molecule and the very low dose needed.
Bolmantalate - Wikipedia

A simple mixture of adamantane or any of its derivatives and a steroid (or any chemical for that matter) would probably have a similar prolonging half life and effects, though not nearly as much as when it is reacted with the molecule. Quite a few people reported potentiation of Pansterone, CortiNon, Gonadin, etc when combined with adamantane.

If somebody creates the DHT version of Bolmantalate and brings it to market, it will probably put out of business most steroid dealers as there would be no need for any other androgen except that one and maybe adding a little DHEA or bioidentical testosterone to prevent estrogen from going too low.

As for your question see Joey's answer.

Frequency of administration aside, would the increased half-life be only interesting in the case of compounds that are toxic to the liver?

It has been discussed enough so it's clear you think there is no down regulation from androgenic compounds but rather up regulation, however adamantane is dopaminergic so wouldn't having it floating around for weeks on end be an issue?

 

[haidut]

As for your question see Joey's answer.

Frequency of administration aside, would the increased half-life be only interesting in the case of compounds that are toxic to the liver?

It has been discussed enough so it's clear you think there is no down regulation from androgenic compounds but rather up regulation, however adamantane is dopaminergic so wouldn't having it floating around for weeks on end be an issue?

Increased half life is interesting since much lower dose can be used to produce the same effects, which usually lowers the risk of side effects. Actually, I should have clarified that in the case of Bolmantalate it was duration of visible anabolic effects on muscle that was very long and considered desirable, not simply its presence in the blood. That's what counts - for how long can a dose produce the desired effects without them waning.

 

[LCohen]

Yes I think he means the OP - @Stud , liver toxicity from proviron supposedly. But @Rio claims it's not toxic in a separate thread

It does not matter who claims what. If it caused liver issues that's what counts, especially given the other reports in the scientific literature about elevated liver enzymes. Given that oxandro also elevates liver enzymes I would be careful about any of those synthetic derivatives.

"Proviron itself is liver toxic" is just funny. Everybody on this forum taking huge doses of everything. That may be the reason..

 

[haidut]

"Proviron itself is liver toxic" is just funny. Everybody on this forum taking huge doses of everything. That may be the reason..

I did not say it is toxic. I said that given the published reports of elevating liver enzymes it should be used with caution and if there is bioidentical DHT available it is probably preferable to Proviron. I also said "...It is supposed to be one of of the safer methylated DHT derivatives ".

 

[Wagner83]

"Proviron itself is liver toxic" is just funny. Everybody on this forum taking huge doses of everything. That may be the reason..

He wasn't on this forum yet afaik and didn't use anything else.

 

[Koveras]

He experienced verified liver issues.

@Rio in this thread is claiming proviron causes no liver toxicity

Testosterone Ideas

Who did and from what - Proviron?

"Proviron itself is liver toxic" is just funny. Everybody on this forum taking huge doses of everything. That may be the reason..

I think in general people give too much credit that they are getting what they are told they are getting on the black market.

Liver damage from "proviron" could be an idosyncratic reaction or it could simply be due to the product containing something other then proviron.

The papers that have conducted lab analysis on black/grey market products generally find a high incidence of mismatched products & incorrect doses.