Bile Duct Cancer

[Sol]

Hi all,

Some weeks ago I had some digestive problems followed by jaundice, itching, feeling really weak. The doctor recommended a cholangiopancreatography to see if there was a gallstone blocking the bile duct. No stone was found but there's some dysplasia, which is basically a tumor. During the cholangiopancretography, the Dr realeased some of the bile that was blocked, so I've been feeling better, not as yellow as before, itching is better also.

However, the doctor now sent me to talk to a surgeon. I'll talk to him next Tuesday to know about the surgery, the need for it, etc. I'm sure he will push to cut it out, and I have no clue how I can assess the real need for it, or if I could treat it somehow with an alternative option. I'm aware that when there's a possibility for a blockage the cutting it out may be the best option.

I know I'm in a difficult situation in regards to that decision, but I would really appreciate any input, if anybody knows anything about this condition.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Base Ball]

Hi Sol,

Peat wrote once that "vitamin A deficiency can cause these cells to proliferate. In the breast, the proliferative epitheliosis is clearly caused by estrogenic stimulation. The antagonism between estrogen and vitamin A in controlling epithelial proliferation (and possibly other cell types: Boettger-Tong and Stancel, 1995) is clear wherever it has been tested; vitamin A restrains epithelial proliferation" Prostate Cancer. As I understand dysplasia, Vitamin A, B6, and C would be the first things I would try, plus anything else thet restrains estrogen. Having said that if one's health is at any point compromised to a significant degree, I would let them cut mine out, assuming the odds of success were pretty high.

 

[Giraffe]

@Sol, please have a look at these two papers:

Medically Induced Euthyroid Hypothyroxinemia May Extend Survival in Compassionate Need Cancer Patients: An Observational Study
Current Status of Photodynamic Therapy for Bile Duct Cancer

Edit to add: You may also want to google "curcumin bile duct cancer".

 

[Sol]

Thank you @Base Ball and @Giraffe
I'll have a look at those pieces of advice for sure. I appreciate your responses.

 

[Amazoniac]

Sol,

Perhaps there are some things here that might be useful. If they help those conditions, I don't think that some wouldn't benefit yours as well.

Even Very Low Doses Of EMF Exposure Can Cause Cancer

A few quotes for your consideration:

Cancer: Disorder and Energy

Many years ago, Harry Rubin was impressed by hearing from a pathologist that he had been able to find diagnosable cancer somewhere in the body of every person over the age of 50 that he had autopsied. If everyone has cancer by the age of 50, that means that cancer is harmless for most people, and that small cancers might frequently appear, and be spontaneously removed as part of the body's regular house-cleaning.

Some people have said that you can never tell... | Ray Peat Forum
When abnormal "metastatic" cells circulate in... | Ray Peat Forum
When people with cancer ask for my... | Ray Peat Forum

 

[Sol]

Thank you Amazoniac, a lot of interesting info about bile acids. Appreciate it.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Sol, a few more things for your consideration:
I didn't read them, but hopefully they're still helpful and revelant for you.

Microbial toxins poisoning the liver.
The Gut Microbiota and Liver Disease - ScienceDirect

I'm mentioning this because transdermal supplementation in your case can be very helpful and can skip any malabsorptive cycle. Some nutrients can be interfered even before you have a chance to absorb them.
Some of them, such as b-vits, can function as growth-factors for bacteria:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC440891/pdf/bactrev00174-0005.pdf#page=23
Which in turn contribute to the problem and reinforce the cycle:
Cholestatic Liver Disease | Elizabeth J. Carey | Springer

Estrogen-induced cholestasis: pathogenesis and therapeuticimplications. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin E: Estrogen Antagonist, Energy Promoter, And Anti.
Vitamins B1 & B2 Are Required For Estrogen Inactivation By Liver

K2/Caffeine For Liver Health
http://www.encognitive.com/files/Vitamin E and K interactions – a 50-year-old problem.pdf

Hickman, Kaley and Harris 15 stated the conclusion that vitamin A is easily destroyed by the enzymes and oxidants of the intestinal tract and that vitamin E may function as an antioxidant when given by mouth or parenterally at the same time that vitamin A is given.

Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in chronic liver disease. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin D in chronic liver disease. - PubMed - NCBI
Efficacy of Fat-Soluble Vitamin Supplementation in Infants With Biliary Atresia (author Ronald Sokol has more material associating the need for fat-soluble vitamins in liver problems)
LIPIDS AND LIPID-ACTIVATED VITAMINS IN CHRONIC CHOLESTATIC DISEASES
Nuclear receptors as therapeutic targets in cholestatic liver diseases

it has to be kept in mind that a mere increase of bile flow in obstructive cholestasis without resolution of the cause may worsen the disease course due to increase of biliary pressure leading to rupture of cholangioles and to the development of bile infarcts.

Limiting hepatic bile acid uptake and bile acid synthesis during cholestasis are considered as protective mechanisms to reduce hepatocellular bile acid overload.

The data derived from animal models of cholestasis and human cholestatic diseases indicate that adaptive mechanisms aimed at counteracting liver injury are intrinsically activated in cholestasis. However, these protective mechanisms do not suffice to completely avoid liver damage. Thus additional targeting these pathways via key regulatory NRs appears as an innovate approach (Fig. 3). This will be the focus of this review.

Especially in obstructive cholestasis, stimulation of biliary bile flow may be detrimental. Stimulation of bile flow even with the hydrophilic bile acid UDCA in a mouse model of sclerosing cholangitis and in bile duct ligated mice increased liver injury, aggravated bile infarcts and induced hepatocyte necroses (Fickert et al., 2002).

VDR [vit D receptor] is an important regulator of bile acid transport and metabolism in the intestine due to its high expression in enterocytes but also plays an important role in hepatic phases I and II detoxification reactions (Fig. 3, Table 1). The use of vitamin D or synthetic VDR agonist represents an attractive therapeutic option to treat cholestatic liver diseases and should be investigated in future studies.

For this reason obtaining nutrients through diet is safer. Taurine is an example. Shellfish is usually loaded.​

Zinc and liver disease. - PubMed - NCBI

On the "growth-factors" link there's passage mentioning how the addition of zinc neutralized the arresting-factor of picolinic acid. Once again, safer through diet.​

Skin soaps can contribute to intoxication.
Occasional transdermal magnesium can help.
Excess or insufficient protein can intoxicate or impair detoxification.
I think that eating a single source of fermentable fiber is worse than eating a variety or none at all. With a single source you encourage specialization.

I would apply supplements on the armpit, because it's less exposed to air and light, some of them deteriorate fast.
I have the impression that I'm forgetting something, if that's the case I'll let you know later.

 

[raypeatclips]

I think that eating a single source of fermentable fiber is worse than eating a variety or none at all. With a single source you encourage specialization.

Just curious, do you have any sources for this or anything? It makes sense but things like this always make me think of the Japanese centenarians/supercentenarians who eat rice multiple times a day for seemingly their whole lives. Just wondered if this was an idea of yours?

 

[Amazoniac]

Just curious, do you have any sources for this or anything? It makes sense but things like this always make me think of the Japanese centenarians/supercentenarians who eat rice multiple times a day for seemingly their whole lives. Just wondered if this was an idea of yours?

No source that I can remember, but it shouldn't be difficult to find.
It should happen more or less for the same reasons discussed here.
Rice is not a good example since it rarely ferments, the accompanying greens are the concerning part..

 

[Amazoniac]

A Cancer Therapy By Max Gerson - Selected Parts

Out of order for sequence:

"[The] inability to heal is caused by various malfunctions including loss of normal mineral balances, poisoning of essential organs due to toxicity, and incomplete digestion and elimination. In order to initiate healing, the first and constant care of the physician is to detoxify the body, especially the liver-bile system. Coffee enemas are the principal means of detoxifying. The caffeine was found to dilate the bile ducts and stimulate discharge of accumulated toxins. Frequent intake of freshly pressed raw fruit and vegetable juices stimulated the kidneys to detoxify the body. Since the juices are extremely rich in minerals, enzymes, and vitamins, they begin the process of returning these substances to the seriously depleted organs. It is not possible to simplify this process by giving, for example, only water to supply the fluid and pills containing vitamins, minerals, and enzymes. The severely toxic and damaged system is unable to absorb and utilize just concentrated preparations. Pills and concentrated substances have a tendency to irritate the severely ill patient further and cause him to lose more of his own already depleted reserves."

"To make enemas most effective, the patient should lie on his right side, with both legs drawn close to the abdomen, and breathe deeply, in order to suck the greatest amount of fluid into all parts of the colon. The fluid should be retained 10 to 15 minutes. Our experiments have shown that after 10 to 12 minutes almost all caffeine is absorbed from the fluid. It goes through the hemorrhoidal veins directly into the portal veins and into the liver. Patients have to know that the coffee enemas are not given for the function of the intestines but for the stimulation of the liver. According to the experiments of Professor O. E. Meyer and Professor Heubner of the University of Goettingen, Germany, it is not certain whether the caffeine stimulates the liver cells directly or indirectly through the visceral nervous system. In any case, the effect is an increased production of bile, an opening of the bile ducts and greater flow of bile. At the start of the treatment and during "flareups," the bile contains poisons, produces spasms in the duodenum and small intestines, and causes some overflow into the stomach, with resultant feeling of nausea or even vomiting of bile. In these cases, great amounts of peppermint tea are necessary to wash out bile from the stomach. Thereafter, patients feel much easier and more comfortable.
A cup of coffee taken by mouth has an entirely different effect. It contains 0.1 gram to 1 grams of caffeine. It heightens the reflex response (Schmiedeberg), lowers the blood pressure, increases heart rate, perspiration, causes insomnia and heart palpitation, the local irritation stimulates peristalsis (stomach motility)."

"Coffee enema: Take 3 tablespoons of ground (drip) coffee (not Instant) to 1 quart of water. Let it boil 3 minutes and then simmer 15 minutes more. Strain and use at body temperature. The daily amount can be prepared at one time (a coffee concentrate can be made, then diluted to required strength)."
"Coffee enemas (pg. 247) - Dosage (first 6 weeks, minimum): While lying on right side, retain for 12-15 minutes - EVERY FOUR HOURS. For limited periods of time, against severe pain, coffee enemas may be used as frequently as every two hours. However, physician must monitor serum electrolytes frequently."

 

[Amazoniac]

http://www.des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/ard/documents/ard-ehp-13.pdf

 

[Sol]

Thanks @Amazoniac very interesting stuff. I didn't have time to read all the links yet but I will for sure.

 

[Amazoniac]

Sol, check this:

http://iicbe.org/upload/8461A0915005.pdf

"The results of the present study showed that treatment with MgSO4 effectively protected rats against BDL-induced cholestasis, as evidenced by histological observations."

"It has been reported that Mg prevents the production of oxygen free radicals [37] and inhibit lipid peroxidation both in vitro [18] and in vivo [34]."

With human equivalent doses of 15-30 mg of magnesium sulfate per kg they were able to prevent "fibrosis around the portal and central vein", and in those amounts it "significantly reduced bile duct hyperplasia, fibrosis, hepatocyte necrosis, and inflammation".

"In conclusion, the findings of this study indicate that MgSO4 can attenuate hepatic damage in extrahepatic cholestasis in experimental rats through reducing oxidative stress and inflammatory processes and give an indication of the possible therapeutic effect of MgSO4 on cholestatic liver injury."

 

[Sol]

@Amazoniac, again I want to thank you very much for your posts. I read the article on magnesium sulfate and yesterday I started taking Epsom Salt.

I think slowly things start to make sense to me regarding this problem, I'll update later when I have time.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac, again I want to thank you very much for your posts. I read the article on magnesium sulfate and yesterday I started taking Epsom Salt.

I think slowly things start to make sense to me regarding this problem, I'll update later when I have time.

Speaking of slowly, I think that it's worth to start any supplement with that in mind, and increase as tolerated, I don't know if it's your case but, especially if the body is depleted since it's uncommon to find isolated deficiencies.
For example, the animals in the experiment could have been in good shape and so were able to obtain what they needed even on a purified diet.

Most of the supplements that you buy from drugstores are nasty in terms of contaminants. I sent you guys a link where you can find relatively better products, just as an option.
At least in theory, the skin should be a better filter than the intestines because it's assumed that you won't ingest what's inedible. Transdermal magnesium is something to consider. Ray suggested to not use it continuously: if it can indeed interfere with copper, magnesium chloride might be another option to consider. Perhaps alternating and focusing of foods.

A person needs to go into the supermarket and... | Ray Peat Forum

 

[Sol]

Sure, I'm aware of that. I always like to start any supplement slowly and up the dose if tolerated.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Check out IP6. I also wonder how OP is doing.

 

[Amazoniac]

Sol, I apologize for suggesting those forms of magnesium, I was actually getting paid to say that. Not that they're toxic, but there are better ones available.

 

[mangoes]

Any update @Sol ? Hope you’re doing well