Beta-alanine actually works for the burn during exercise (lactic acid)

cjm

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whats the side effects to this stuff long term? taurine depletion?

You tell me! There are enough references in the healthline link I sent to keep you busy for hours. Please dig in and report back on the safety profile.


"carnosine has been shown to be more effective at sequestering protons than either bicarbonate (pKa 6.3) or inorganic phosphate (pKa 7.2), the other two major physio-chemical buffers, over the physiological pH range.... Preliminary estimates of what contribution carnosine may play in buffering suggested as much as 40 % of the buffering capacity of muscle [31*] when evaluated in animals; more recent research in humans has indicated the contribution may be as low as 7 % [15**]."

*Sci-Hub | Changes in Adipopnectin, Leptin, and Fat Mass after Clenbuterol Treatment in Horses. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 38(2), 262–267 | 10.1249/01.mss.0000185108.63028.04
**Sci-Hub | Carnosine and anserine concentrations in the quadriceps femoris muscle of healthy humans. European Journal of Applied Physiology and Occupational Physiology, 64(1), 47–50 | 10.1007/BF00376439
 

cjm

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@ReSTART

Did you ever try baking soda for the burn? I did and didn't get as pronounced an effect as I'm getting from beta alanine (which reliably turns into carnosine, just to be clear). I've been intrigued and looking up studies for a better understanding.

Use of β-Alanine as an Ergogenic Aid

"Carnosine Loading and Bicarbonate Ingestion: Two Different Ways of Fighting Acidosis?
Intense contractions during high-intensity exercise result in large proton production, which leads to acidosis within skeletal muscle cells. A significant portion of the contraction-induced protons are rapidly transported out of the active muscles and buffered by the circulating buffers, such as bicarbonate. This state of acidosis in muscle and blood is presumably one of the causes of fatigue. Therefore,
one could term the pH buffers inside the muscle cells (such as carnosine) as the first line of defense and the blood buffers as the second line of defense against high-intensity exercise fatigue."

That's a bit too grade school explain-y for me. Bicarbonate isn't just a blood resident. Neither is carnosine just a muscle resident apparently, which might explain why there is no clear winner between bicarb and alanine, at least for sports/burn purposes.

PHYSIOLOGY AND PATHOPHYSIOLOGY OF CARNOSINE

"Intramyocellular homeostasis during contractions

The role of carnosine as a pH buffer in skeletal muscle was first proposed in 1938 by two independent groups (47, 107). Bate Smith (47) proposed that carnosine would account for up to 25% of the buffering capacity in rigor muscle and as much as 40% in vivo. During high-intensity muscle contractions, the anaerobic glycolysis leads to the production of lactic acid which immediately dissociates into protons (H) and lactate ions at physiological pH values. The resulting acidosis can reach pH values of 6.5 and lower (191) and has often been associated with muscle contractile fatigue. Even though the role of acidosis in muscular fatigue remains a matter of debate (16, 292), it can be expected that the reason for the abundance of carnosine in muscle is at least partly related to the proton-sequestering property of the carnosine molecule (see sect. III).

In addition to HCD, several compounds, such as proteins, bicarbonate, and inorganic phosphate, contribute to the cellular buffering system, and their relative contribution markedly depends on the muscle types and animal species (281, 381)(see sect. II). For instance, the HCD may account for more than half of the total muscle buffering capacity (b%) in marine animals, such as whale, who are involved in prolonged hypoxic dives (3). HCD is typically high in white (fast-twitch) muscle of animals in which anaerobic exercise types such as prolonged breath-hold diving and sprint swimming, running, flying, and hopping are required to catch prey or escape predators (3).

In humans, muscle contains a rather small amount of HCD (see sect. II), which would mean that they contribute relatively little to b-tot. The relative buffering capacity b-carnosine/ b-tot% in the human vastus lateralis muscle was determined to be 4.5 and 9.4% in fibers I and II, respectively (243). When muscle carnosine content is increased by nutritional intervention, the degree of acidosis in the blood during high-intensity exercise will be attenuated in humans (38).
Possibly more important than it contribution to b-tot, carnosine is a mobile buffer, freely dissolved in the myoplasm, as opposed to proteins, which are fixed buffers (204, 340). This means that its contribution to pH homeostasis and prevention of local pH gradients is probably greater than would be expected from its calculated proportion of b-tot."
 

Dr. B

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@ReSTART

Did you ever try baking soda for the burn? I did and didn't get as pronounced an effect as I'm getting from beta alanine (which reliably turns into carnosine, just to be clear). I've been intrigued and looking up studies for a better understanding.

Use of β-Alanine as an Ergogenic Aid

"Carnosine Loading and Bicarbonate Ingestion: Two Different Ways of Fighting Acidosis?
Intense contractions during high-intensity exercise result in large proton production, which leads to acidosis within skeletal muscle cells. A significant portion of the contraction-induced protons are rapidly transported out of the active muscles and buffered by the circulating buffers, such as bicarbonate. This state of acidosis in muscle and blood is presumably one of the causes of fatigue. Therefore,
one could term the pH buffers inside the muscle cells (such as carnosine) as the first line of defense and the blood buffers as the second line of defense against high-intensity exercise fatigue."

That's a bit too grade school explain-y for me. Bicarbonate isn't just a blood resident. Neither is carnosine just a muscle resident apparently, which might explain why there is no clear winner between bicarb and alanine, at least for sports/burn purposes.

PHYSIOLOGY AND PATHOPHYSIOLOGY OF CARNOSINE

"Intramyocellular homeostasis during contractions

The role of carnosine as a pH buffer in skeletal muscle was first proposed in 1938 by two independent groups (47, 107). Bate Smith (47) proposed that carnosine would account for up to 25% of the buffering capacity in rigor muscle and as much as 40% in vivo. During high-intensity muscle contractions, the anaerobic glycolysis leads to the production of lactic acid which immediately dissociates into protons (H) and lactate ions at physiological pH values. The resulting acidosis can reach pH values of 6.5 and lower (191) and has often been associated with muscle contractile fatigue. Even though the role of acidosis in muscular fatigue remains a matter of debate (16, 292), it can be expected that the reason for the abundance of carnosine in muscle is at least partly related to the proton-sequestering property of the carnosine molecule (see sect. III).

In addition to HCD, several compounds, such as proteins, bicarbonate, and inorganic phosphate, contribute to the cellular buffering system, and their relative contribution markedly depends on the muscle types and animal species (281, 381)(see sect. II). For instance, the HCD may account for more than half of the total muscle buffering capacity (b%) in marine animals, such as whale, who are involved in prolonged hypoxic dives (3). HCD is typically high in white (fast-twitch) muscle of animals in which anaerobic exercise types such as prolonged breath-hold diving and sprint swimming, running, flying, and hopping are required to catch prey or escape predators (3).

In humans, muscle contains a rather small amount of HCD (see sect. II), which would mean that they contribute relatively little to b-tot. The relative buffering capacity b-carnosine/ b-tot% in the human vastus lateralis muscle was determined to be 4.5 and 9.4% in fibers I and II, respectively (243). When muscle carnosine content is increased by nutritional intervention, the degree of acidosis in the blood during high-intensity exercise will be attenuated in humans (38).
Possibly more important than it contribution to b-tot, carnosine is a mobile buffer, freely dissolved in the myoplasm, as opposed to proteins, which are fixed buffers (204, 340). This means that its contribution to pH homeostasis and prevention of local pH gradients is probably greater than would be expected from its calculated proportion of b-tot."

how does creatine affect the lactic acid and burn during workouts?
what about calcium and magnesium themselves? would a high calcium diet, with low phosphorus, replicate some of these benefits seen from beta alanine or baking soda?
i used to use 5g creatine and 4g beta alanine daily for years. they definitely had performance benefits. the beta alanine and creatine both do seem to increase anxiety and have some sort of excitatory effect. creatine probably due to choline, beta alanine due to something else.
 

cjm

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how does creatine affect the lactic acid and burn during workouts?

Not sure about the burn or lactic acid or ph with creatine. All I'm moderately certain of is that there isn't clear-cut evidence that creatine and beta alanine are additive taken together for exercise performance.

what about calcium and magnesium themselves? would a high calcium diet, with low phosphorus, replicate some of these benefits seen from beta alanine or baking soda?

Great question. Obviously they are alkaline but I don't have any good studies to show/stories to tell.
 

Dr. B

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It does but only for a few minutes. Again, mitigated with food.
ive been discussing beta alanine on another thread,
i think it could potentially help since it depletes taurine and would then encourage creation of more taurine via b6 and cysteine..
however, this could have negative effects if not supplementing taurine or cysteine or b6, since the cysteine is needed for glutathione as well as taurine, and b6 is needed to make taurine, so beta alanine supplementation would "stress" the bodys vitamin b6 and cysteine levels...
in some cases this could help, like if you have excess cysteine and supplement b6
in other cases it could mess with things...
 

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