Bernie Sanders Defends Democratic Socialism

[LUH 3417]

My husband went to Westmont for religious studies. Despite the cost he would do it all over again, he grew a lot. He would not be in the position he is now if it were not for that experience. Plus most managerial positions require at least a bachelors degree. I don't support going to those crazy universities where all people do is get drunk at their frat parties and indoctrinated into the new world order.

I think women often feel they have to marry someone who is more educated than they are and has access to more resources than they do. It’s quite exploitative in my opinion. Not saying I’m immune to that approach, but seeing people as what they can do for you is an impoverished way of seeing each other, especially when thinking about sex and love. I’m very bothered by the move up mentality personally because of my experiences as a first generation daughter of immigrants. When success and money are the main motivation behind life, there will be devastating psychological effects on people.

 

[Cirion]

I think women often feel they have to marry someone who is more educated than they are and has access to more resources than they do. It’s quite exploitative in my opinion. Not saying I’m immune to that approach, but seeing people as what they can do for you is an impoverished way of seeing each other, especially when thinking about sex and love. I’m very bothered by the move up mentality personally because of my experiences as a first generation daughter of immigrants. When success and money are the main motivation behind life, there will be devastating psychological effects on people.

On that note... I know all women aren't like this, but a lot are like you said. How does one avoid this from happening? TBH, I don't see myself marrying until probably around age 40 when I have my life in the place I want it to be, at which point I'll probably be fairly wealthy, possibly retired with upwards of $1M in net worth and growing. Certainly not RICH but definitely far above the norm nowadays. If I'm still single at this point, I'll probably start dating again by this point, because then my focus won't be so heavily on money anymore probably as I'll be financially secure, and companionship would be a nice complement to my life by that point. Gold diggers are a big problem. I guess just don't mention income early on in dating? But they'll find out sooner or later. My parents seem to think I'm ridiculous for wanting to go for prenups. Seems to be the only way to know for sure. I just see the statistics on marriage, and 50% of marriages fail, and many men nowadays get hosed financially (Not about to let my hard work get taken away). A prenup to me is nothing personal, but I think a lot of women would take it personally. It's just me wanting to preserve my way of life. But I do admit that's kinda sad to resort to that, at the same time, lol. I guess look out for red flags early on like women demanding expensive gifts and frequent expensive vacations, extravagant engagement ring, etc etc...

 

[LUH 3417]

On that note... I know all women aren't like this, but a lot are like you said. How does one avoid this from happening? TBH, I don't see myself marrying until probably around age 40 when I have my life in the place I want it to be, at which point I'll probably be fairly wealthy, possibly retired with upwards of $1M in net worth and growing. Certainly not RICH but definitely far above the norm nowadays. If I'm still single at this point, I'll probably start dating again by this point, because then my focus won't be so heavily on money anymore probably as I'll be financially secure, and companionship would be a nice complement to my life by that point. Gold diggers are a big problem. I guess just don't mention income early on in dating? But they'll find out sooner or later. My parents seem to think I'm ridiculous for wanting to go for prenups. Seems to be the only way to know for sure. I just see the statistics on marriage, and 50% of marriages fail, and many men nowadays get hosed financially (Not about to let my hard work get taken away). A prenup to me is nothing personal, but I think a lot of women would take it personally. It's just me wanting to preserve my way of life. But I do admit that's kinda sad to resort to that, at the same time, lol. I guess look out for red flags early on like women demanding expensive gifts and frequent expensive vacations, extravagant engagement ring, etc etc...

If society were structured in such a way that women weren’t forced to rely on men for financial support throughout pregnancy and raising children then people could come together and mate out of a mutual desire rather than a scarcity mentality. Too bad we tell young girls who get pregnant their life is ruined and they’ll never become a doctor, nurse, teacher, lawyer, dancer, painter etc since they missed the boat with their teen pregnancy. My mom stayed with my dad because she “had no other options” and it was basically a refined form of prostitution growing up in a house like that. So much for family values!

 

[Cirion]

If society were structured in such a way that women weren’t forced to rely on men for financial support throughout pregnancy and raising children then people could come together and mate out of a mutual desire rather than a scarcity mentality. Too bad we tell young girls who get pregnant their life is ruined and they’ll never become a doctor, nurse, teacher, lawyer, dancer, painter etc since they missed the boat with their teen pregnancy. My mom stayed with my dad because she “had no other options” and it was basically a refined form of prostitution growing up in a house like that. So much for family values!

Yeah, sadly, modern day marriage in the US is almost like legalized prostitution as you said. Many men marry just for for the frequent sex that they don't have to work that hard for compared to seeking out one night stands or whatever, and many women marry for the security. Like you said , I wonder how many (of either gender!) actually marry for the right reasons anymore? It's not very common. Marriages are extremely disposable or used as exploitation by one or even both parties or marriage happens like you said due to scarcity reasons "She (or he) is the best I can get" (aka settling). It makes people uncomfortable to think about, but the brutal truth of the matter is that sexual market value (SMV) of either gender tends to dictate what partner you end up with (equal or lower in SMV) and things like trustworthiness, honesty, integrity take a backseat to SMV. For women, beauty is usually enough to bring their SMV up really high. For men, attractiveness/confidence helps their SMV, but someone both attractiveness and with a big wallet can have any woman they want whereas a man will sleep with a woman who is completely broke if they're hot enough. Although, they might not marry them. I do think there's probably a little difference between SMV and MMV.

 

[LUH 3417]

Yeah, sadly, modern day marriage in the US is almost like legalized prostitution as you said. Many men marry just for for the frequent sex that they don't have to work that hard for compared to seeking out one night stands or whatever, and many women marry for the security. Like you said , I wonder how many (of either gender!) actually marry for the right reasons anymore? It's not very common. Marriages are extremely disposable or used as exploitation by one or even both parties or marriage happens like you said due to scarcity reasons "She (or he) is the best I can get" (aka settling). It makes people uncomfortable to think about, but the brutal truth of the matter is that sexual market value (SMV) of either gender tends to dictate what partner you end up with (equal or lower in SMV) and things like trustworthiness, honesty, integrity take a backseat to SMV. For women, beauty is usually enough to bring their SMV up really high. For men, attractiveness/confidence helps their SMV, but someone both attractiveness and with a big wallet can have any woman they want whereas a man will sleep with a woman who is completely broke if they're hot enough. Although, they might not marry them. I do think there's probably a little difference between SMV and MMV.

And all the kids being raised in such households are supposed to have a high moral standard and be upright citizens and know to do the right thing when it counts..right? Riiiiight

 

[sladerunner69]

Well, first off, the Federal Reserve isn't even a government institution.

The federal reserve is absolutely a government institution. It was voted into existence by the Senate in 1913. The Fed chair is nominated by the U.S. president and confirmed by the senate. I don't understand where this myth comes from that it is a "private entity". It is very clearly not.

That said, it is highly improbably that the Fed has done anything to benefit the U.S. Economy at anytime, and roots its theory in the Keynesian school whose theories and mathematics were highly criticized during his own time, and have been thoroughly rebuked since then.

Monetarists like Milton Friedman assert that while Keynes provided a valuable mathematical framework for macroeconomic analysis, his theories were vastly over-simplified and largely incorrect. Monetarists believe the Fed should exist only to print out a predetermined amount of money each year, regardless of price levels.

Austrians such as Hayek believe that the Fed should be abolished, and that mathematics are useless in the face of infinitely complex human transactions.

Either way the idea that the Government has a duty to spend its way out of recessions through heavy stimulus only fuels inflation and massive debt. As this broken system of debt and liquidity perpetuates, the banking elite are able to take advantage with the infamous "golden parachutes" that were taken by high level bankers and corporate heads during not just the 2008 crisis, but also the recessions of the late 70's and the great depression.

Living in an Ayn-Rand eutopic phantasy where you just abolish all government institutions and everything will be peachy is all good and fine, but there millions of Americans living in a real crony-capitalist-dystopia right now, and I think they prefer a real alternative.

This is another myth, that of the "crony-capitalist-dystopia". There is very little capitalism in an economy controlled by corporate elite. The essence of Capatilism is the free market, and a free market is defined by high levels of competition. There is insufficient competition in most industries to consider the United States a capatilist economy, even one directed by Cronies. The truth is already much closer to socialism, unfortunately. Don't believe me? Try to start a pharmecuetical business or a hospital. You will be strangeled by red tape before you open your doors, inundated with paper work, subpeonas and civil notices long before you are able to maintain a payroll. The primary issue with the modern economy is that the government is bought and sold by the corporate elite, and as @tankasnowgod points out, all of the government agencies are too powerful and too corrupt. The Federal Government consists of hundreds of agencies, with very little accountability. If the government were much smaller, as was intended by the Founding Fathers, these corrupt agencies would be fundamentally more accountable. The wisdom and virtue of the founders is not to be heeded lightly; many of the issues they sought to meddle out with Great Britain were strikingly similar to the anti-freedom policies of modern government.

The US may still be the most free country, but it is no longer a capitalist haven. Rather, the Unites States is a Technocratic Oligarchy. The Corporations control information, and use their influence on media and academica with the backing of government force to ensure the population will continue to vote for pro-government, expansionary policies. The more third world immigrants they can continue to drop on top of americans, while calling us "racist bigots" when we point out the significant inequities, the longer the techno-corporate elite's continued reign is guaranteed.

 

[LUH 3417]

The federal reserve is absolutely a government institution. It was voted into existence by the Senate in 1913. The Fed chair is nominated by the U.S. president and confirmed by the senate. I don't understand where this myth comes from that it is a "private entity". It is very clearly not.

That said, it is highly improbably that the Fed has done anything to benefit the U.S. Economy at anytime, and roots its theory in the Keynesian school whose theories and mathematics were highly criticized during his own time, and have been thoroughly rebuked since then.

Monetarists like Milton Friedman assert that while Keynes provided a valuable mathematical framework for macroeconomic analysis, his theories were vastly over-simplified and largely incorrect. Monetarists believe the Fed should exist only to print out a predetermined amount of money each year, regardless of price levels.

Austrians such as Hayek believe that the Fed should be abolished, and that mathematics are useless in the face of infinitely complex human transactions.

Either way the idea that the Government has a duty to spend its way out of recessions through heavy stimulus only fuels inflation and massive debt. As this broken system of debt and liquidity perpetuates, the banking elite are able to take advantage with the infamous "golden parachutes" that were taken by high level bankers and corporate heads during not just the 2008 crisis, but also the recessions of the late 70's and the great depression.



This is another myth, that of the "crony-capitalist-dystopia". There is very little capitalism in an economy controlled by corporate elite. The essence of Capatilism is the free market, and a free market is defined by high levels of competition. There is insufficient competition in most industries to consider the United States a capatilist economy, even one directed by Cronies. The truth is already much closer to socialism, unfortunately. Don't believe me? Try to start a pharmecuetical business or a hospital. You will be strangeled by red tape before you open your doors, inundated with paper work, subpeonas and civil notices long before you are able to maintain a payroll. The primary issue with the modern economy is that the government is bought and sold by the corporate elite, and as @tankasnowgod points out, all of the government agencies are too powerful and too corrupt. The Federal Government consists of hundreds of agencies, with very little accountability. If the government were much smaller, as was intended by the Founding Fathers, these corrupt agencies would be fundamentally more accountable. The wisdom and virtue of the founders is not to be heeded lightly; many of the issues they sought to meddle out with Great Britain were strikingly similar to the anti-freedom policies of modern government.

The US may still be the most free country, but it is no longer a capitalist haven. Rather, the Unites States is a Technocratic Oligarchy. The Corporations control information, and use their influence on media and academica with the backing of government force to ensure the population will continue to vote for pro-government, expansionary policies. The more third world immigrants they can continue to drop on top of americans, while calling us "racist bigots" when we point out the significant inequities, the longer the techno-corporate elite's continued reign is guaranteed.

Who is the ephemeral “us” that are being called “racist bigots?” Every group of immigrants from the German to the Irish to the Italian have had to work and be considered the parasite of American society at one time or another to earn their stripes of honor as being worthy of employment.

 

[Amazigh]

Perhaps because he would like to have a chance of winning the next election.

I disagree. The Fed Reserve is not on his radar because he is targeting what he believes to be the root of the problems we have today, mainly the buying of our politicians by corporations and the very rich.

Eliminating those institutions such as the Fed etc are Libertarian positions, not Progressive.

 

[Amazigh]

Additionally, good luck getting your mail delivered or your fires put out in a purely “capitalist” United States.

Actually we tried that already. The rich people's houses would have their fires put out. The other people, not so lucky.

 

[Amazigh]

How does is work? Does it require people to be de-brainwashed? Is there any country close to that? Or does a new country or planet need to be founded?

We can start by not allowing large donors to buy our politicians. That way, it's our will, not rich people and corps effecting policy.

How about publicly funded elections so normal people can run for office on a level playing field?

It would be great also if we had rank choice voting in which you rank the candidates in order of preference so your vote doesn't get wasted if your first choice doesn't win.

How about eliminating gerymandering?

Making sure everyone who is eligible to vote gets to actually vote?

Not allowing former members of Congress to become lobbyists as soon as they leave office?

Breaking up the media companies that are funded by the same corps that pay off the politicians? (and therefore mislead the public when they see fit)

Just a few possibilities to start.

 

[yerrag]

I disagree. The Fed Reserve is not on his radar because he is targeting what he believes to be the root of the problems we have today, mainly the buying of our politicians by corporations and the very rich.

Eliminating those institutions such as the Fed etc are Libertarian positions, not Progressive.

Spot on.

Progressives rely on the Fed to print money to fund everything that's free. There is no shortage of academics that will use MMT to fund Bernie's healthcare and college education for all - free.

But Bernie does nothing to address the fact that the US healthcare and college education system is a big sham. He just pours more resources into perpetuating the scam.

 

[yerrag]

We can start by not allowing large donors to buy our politicians. That way, it's our will, not rich people and corps effecting policy.

How about publicly funded elections so normal people can run for office on a level playing field?

It would be great also if we had rank choice voting in which you rank the candidates in order of preference so your vote doesn't get wasted if your first choice doesn't win.

How about eliminating gerymandering?

Making sure everyone who is eligible to vote gets to actually vote?

Not allowing former members of Congress to become lobbyists as soon as they leave office?

Breaking up the media companies that are funded by the same corps that pay off the politicians? (and therefore mislead the public when they see fit)

Just a few possibilities to start.

All very good ideas. It takes a citizenry that's not sheepish to get the ball rolling and rolling. But it's hard when both mainstream and social media all conspire to confuse the citizenry. And a large segment of the citizenry is brainwashed by the sorry state of miseducation - no skills to show for a costly piece of paper, and indebted to start their adult life with. No jobs but plenty of time to rally for the wrong kind of solutions.

If and when Bernie gets to be the president, I think the best thing is for the Republican Party to lose all power in Congress and the Senate - and give Bernie's party free reign to do everything they want unopposed. They will have to foil for any mistakes that's bound to happen. No more blaming someones else. But they will fail, and they will point the finger at Bernie's predecessor - Trump.

The reality is the tide of history isn't on anyone's side. It will get worse no matter what. After all, since the Fed was established, the world has been on a fake wealth creation scheme. Pretty much all Western democracies, Japan included (they consider themselves Western) are in debt. Fiat money is fake money. Everything is built on fake money. The reckoning has to come first before everyone realizes the Fed is another Madoff, just more cunning and diabolical. You don't need a man stroking his white cat, the Fed has always been around, hidden in plain sight.

 

[Amazigh]

I have been following the vaccine mandates very closely for the last year and the first mandatory vaccines will happen in California first, then NY, both run by democrats. I live in a republican run state and there's no talk at all about mandating vaccines. Not that I am on either side. I think they both suck. I thought Bernie would be outside of all of it since he wasn't being funded by corporate interests, but he is not clear if he would pass legislation on vaccines or guns so I am leery.

I get the feeling that none of you really understand how taxation works. Do you think that poor people pay 30% income tax tax in the U.S? To pay 30% income tax you must earn $157,501 to $200,000 as a single household

Also, you don't pay that % on the entire amount, only on income over like 36k.

By the way, I am self employed so I got stuck with a $26,000 tax bill last year. Meanwhile, Amazon paid $0 AND they got money back. Yeah, that's real fair.

 

[Amazigh]

Spot on.

Progressives rely on the Fed to print money to fund everything that's free. There is no shortage of academics that will use MMT to fund Bernie's healthcare and college education for all - free.

But Bernie does nothing to address the fact that the US healthcare and college education system is a big sham. He just pours more resources into perpetuating the scam.

Nope. Read his M4A policy, which answers the "how are you gonna pay for it" question - that is, if you're really interested to know.

Our current medical system is way more expensive.

Corps and rich are not paying their fair share of taxes. Did you get a tax cut? I didn't... Amazon paid 0 last year - wtf...

Funny thing, nobody ever questions the $ when it comes to jumping into another war, only when it's to help people.

 

[Cirion]

I get the feeling that none of you really understand how taxation works. Do you think that poor people pay 30% income tax tax in the U.S? To pay 30% income tax you must earn $157,501 to $200,000 as a single household

I get the feeling YOU don't understand how taxation works. I just took my last year tax data, and I paid 31.4% taxes on only 73k taxable income (Uncle sam took 23k of it). Try again.

Your 157k-200k comment is patently 100% false.

Though, it might be correct for MARRIED people (not single). If that's what you meant, then you're right. Someone who makes 157-200k is probably giving away 40-50% to uncle sam (Hint - there are more taxes on your income than just "Income Tax", there are other 'hidden' taxes like social security, medicare...) So, not even close, sorry. You're off by over 50% in income.

Here are the breakdowns for me last year (%'s of taxable income)

Social security is a joke. Medicare is a joke. I can handle my own health insurance and my own retirement, I don't need either, I could use the money from both 100x better than the government could. I pretty much consider both completely wasted and lost money as a result. Not to mention social security is literally useless until age 60+ or so anyway, and is zero help in retiring at an early age (40s or 50s).

My point being any money that is taken away from my income in the name of taxes I consider as income tax. I can't use it because it was taxed, therefore, income tax. And it was 31.4%. Any debate to the contrary is just semantics and doesn't take away from this point.

 

[yerrag]

Nope. Read his M4A policy, which answers the "how are you gonna pay for it" question - that is, if you're really interested to know.

To test your understanding, please explain. Is it too complicated. I won't bother. Did you really understand the gibberish? I doubt it. It's meant to be complicated so you're lost in the details, and you sheepishly pretend you do and follow along just because it's written by some hotshot professor from the Ivy League. Be the boy and not the Emperor. The boy was a lot smarter, wasn't he?

Our current medical system is way more expensive.

And why is that? It's a scam. Neither Trump nor Bernie is addressing that. It's too embedded and institutionalized to change it. Learn the keys to health and you'll never have to walk into a hospital and be snookered by the medical and health insurance system. This way, you're not clamoring for free health insurance, which when used makes you even sicker and more dependent. It may be an impossible ask, but at least try.

Corps and rich are not paying their fair share of taxes. Did you get a tax cut? I didn't... Amazon paid 0 last year - wtf...

Just simplify the tax code. Easier said than done, I know. Republicans won't change it, neither will Democrats. And there is no third way. Again, people are sheepish and fractious.

Funny thing, nobody ever questions the $ when it comes to jumping into another war, only when it's to help people.

Everybody questions it except Capitol Hill and the media.

 

[Cirion]

Did you get a tax cut? I didn't... Amazon paid 0 last year

Yes I did actually. I get $100 more in my paycheck every 2 weeks so $200 extra a month now. Thanks Trump =) His tax cuts equated to like 2-3 raises for me.

Of course Amazon doesn't pay income tax. They do pay taxes, but it's called capital gains tax. You pay capital gains tax as a business owner and investing.

 

[tygertgr]

The reality is the tide of history isn't on anyone's side. It will get worse no matter what. After all, since the Fed was established, the world has been on a fake wealth creation scheme.

The fed was founded by forwarded thinking men who had lived through a series of financial crises and chaos in the banking system. Their intention was for it to be a privately organized lender of last resort and regulatory body -- a bankers' bank. I LOL at the attack that "It's not even FEDERAL!" Yes, that was the entire point. It was a self-organized attempt by the banking industry to create more stability in the monetary system without having to rely on JP Morgan to personally stabilize things as happened in the panic of 1893. It's unfortunate the Federal Reserve Act passed. Otherwise the idea of the private Fed is perfectly reasonable.

The impending tidal wave of history is against socialism. Bernie supporters and Euro-socialists in general are completely delusional about the fiscal situation across the industrialized world. Whether you like the idea of socialism or not, it simply is not going to exist in about ten years. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about medicare or the NHS or government funded education.

Clever ideas like MMT do not repeal the bond markets. You can fire up a spreadsheet and see the impending fiscal crisis everywhere. Governments will be broke. American cities and states are already going broke and the process is simply going to work its way up. If money from the government is your plan, your plan is doomed to fail.

 

[Cirion]

Corps and rich are not paying their fair share of taxes

lmao

Whenever someone says this it just cracks me the heck up. The top 20% pay 80% of all income taxes. And even though corporate tax rate is only 15%, they still pay far more than the average joe. 15% of a LOT of money is a lot, lot more than 30% of my paltry income for example. Still don't like it? Stop making an income, invest, and make your own business then. PS - a corporation is just a piece of paper. Anyone can make one.

What's fair? Who defines fair? Is fair having the top brackets paying 99%? You do realize a % by definition scales right? It's basic math. Do they even teach %'s in grade school anymore? Sometimes I wonder. lol. 20% of a rich person's income is literally by definition far, far more than 20% of a poor person's income.

IMO what people need to be complaining more about is why people with well under 100k are getting taxed 30% like myself. But at least I don't just sit around moping and griping, I've started investing, making money as much as I can with the 15% rate. You can complain, or play the game. I choose the latter.

 

[yerrag]

If money from the government is your plan, your plan is doomed to fail.

You talkin' to me? You're preaching to the choir. What are you smoking?