Berberine Vs Goldenseal

[Bluemachine]

which is best for use as an antimicrobial? i see it recommended as herb to treat sibo(berberine) so i assume the extracted ingrediant is preferable to the root powder? so far oregano oil seems to be helping a bunch but garlic or allicin has made me feel pretty awful. the arabic gum in it has probably contributed. if you have any recommendations for other herbs with antibiotic properties or know if ray has ever mentioned any, please share :)

 

[inthedark]

which is best for use as an antimicrobial? i see it recommended as herb to treat sibo(berberine) so i assume the extracted ingrediant is preferable to the root powder? so far oregano oil seems to be helping a bunch but garlic or allicin has made me feel pretty awful. the arabic gum in it has probably contributed. if you have any recommendations for other herbs with antibiotic properties or know if ray has ever mentioned any, please share :)

Berberine itself isn’t an herb, it’s an alkaloid found in various plants -such as goldenseal-. So a given dose of Berberine compared to Goldenseal, at the same dose weight, would be more powerful. Dosing berberine would be easier, as a full herb such as Goldenseal could have varying amounts of berberine. However, I’d recommend some caution with berberine as it can be very strong and cause some disturbance down there. So start with a small dose and see how you feel.

Also, look into Idealabs’ Camphosal as a possible treatment for SIBO

 

[Bluemachine]

Berberine itself isn’t an herb, it’s an alkaloid found in various plants -such as goldenseal-. So a given dose of Berberine compared to Goldenseal, at the same dose weight, would be more powerful. Dosing berberine would be easier, as a full herb such as Goldenseal could have varying amounts of berberine. However, I’d recommend some caution with berberine as it can be very strong and cause some disturbance down there. So start with a small dose and see how you feel.

Also, look into Idealabs’ Camphosal as a possible treatment for SIBO

yes sorry i worded that awfuly. im in the uk & am hesitant to order stuff overseas, especially as i have already started a 'course' so it would be inconveniant if i had to wait a long time. thanks for the suggestion though, ill look into if theres anything similar over here. maybe i could buy the two ingredients(i forget the names) of the camphosal seperately

 

[RWilly]

Goldenseal is internationally considered an Endangered Species of Fauna and Flora, as it's not easy to cultivate. It's been over harvested. There are other good berberine sources.

 

[Bluemachine]

@Jennifer can you remember what herbs were in the stuff you took for sibo? i have asked you before & you linked me somewhere but the website was unavailable for me for some reason. sorry for the hastle

 

[Jennifer]

It's no hassle, @SwissFever! :) The formulas are Parasite M and Heal All.

The Parasite M contains the herbs:

• Pau d’Arco Bark
• Black Walnut Hull
• Cat’s Claw Bark
• Goldenseal Root
• Usnea Lichen
• Olive Leave Extract
• Thyme Leaf
• Butternut Bark
• Barberry Root

The Heal All contains the herbs:

• White Oak Bark
• Plantain Leaf
• Black Walnut Hull
• Chaparral Herb
• Burdock Root
• Marshmallow Root
• Comfrey Root
• Comfrey Leaf

You can probably make your own formulas for cheaper but just in case, I get the formulas from this company (I'm linking you to their European website):

Dr Morse's Glycerin Tinctures Archives - Our Botanicals Europe

 

[Bluemachine]

thanks! interesting that none of these are typical recomendations for sibo(atleast what i've read) appart from the goldenseal & barberry/berberine. did you ever get tested for parasites? also did you notice any negative side effects from the herbs? atlot of people say they feel rough when taking them, be it from die off or whatever. i noticed some big improvements after a few consecutive days taking oregano with little negative & after the garlic i felt awful but im wondering if thats because it was really going to town on the bacteria and maybe i should persist with it.

 

[inthedark]

yes sorry i worded that awfuly. im in the uk & am hesitant to order stuff overseas, especially as i have already started a 'course' so it would be inconveniant if i had to wait a long time. thanks for the suggestion though, ill look into if theres anything similar over here. maybe i could buy the two ingredients(i forget the names) of the camphosal seperately

This may or may not appeal to you, but it’s relatively easy to make a tincture with a plant that contains berberine (and there are quite a few). I used a 40% clear alcohol (I used mezcal but vodka is pretty standard). I harvested some Oregon Grape because it’s very very common here, and stripped the bark. On the inside of the bark you can see it’s quite yellow, which is the berberine. Put the alcohol and chopped or ground or grated bark together in a jar for a couple weeks. When I take 5-10 drops of this to tincture it feels very much like taking berberine. And you don’t have to worry about the processing or harvesting methods being damaging to the environment or beneficial compounds.

 

[Tarmander]

extract is much more powerful. I have tried both. Barely even feel goldenseal, but berberine hits like a truck

 

[Jennifer]

thanks! interesting that none of these are typical recomendations for sibo(atleast what i've read) appart from the goldenseal & barberry/berberine. did you ever get tested for parasites? also did you notice any negative side effects from the herbs? atlot of people say they feel rough when taking them, be it from die off or whatever. i noticed some big improvements after a few consecutive days taking oregano with little negative & after the garlic i felt awful but im wondering if thats because it was really going to town on the bacteria and maybe i should persist with it.

You're welcome! Yep, I tested negative for parasites via a comprehensive stool test, but still took an anti-parasitic herbal formula when following Dr. Morse's protocol. I didn't feel any negative effects from the herbs, only positive ones, but I did feel negative effects from garlic -- I took activated raw garlic for 7 days based on a forum member's success with it. The only thing it did was upset my stomach and then I came across this quote by Ray:

"[Raw garlic as an antibiotic] It's about as hard on the stomach as on the germs."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Oregano oil always reduced my symptoms, for example, it would clear my rash within a half hour of consuming it. Ray said this about oregano oil:

"It's one of the safest spices (low allergenicity, not mutagenic or carcinogenic), so if it isn't combined with harmful excipients it seems worth trying."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Looking back, I probably could have cleared the SIBO and saved myself a ton of time, effort and money with just oregano oil, diet and NDT.

 

[Bluemachine]

This may or may not appeal to you, but it’s relatively easy to make a tincture with a plant that contains berberine (and there are quite a few). I used a 40% clear alcohol (I used mezcal but vodka is pretty standard). I harvested some Oregon Grape because it’s very very common here, and stripped the bark. On the inside of the bark you can see it’s quite yellow, which is the berberine. Put the alcohol and chopped or ground or grated bark together in a jar for a couple weeks. When I take 5-10 drops of this to tincture it feels very much like taking berberine. And you don’t have to worry about the processing or harvesting methods being damaging to the environment or beneficial compounds.

ye, i imagine making it yourself would be optimal & also fun, i do worry about the methods and contaminants of most supp companies. and also way cheaper, berberine seems to be one of the more expensive herbs ive looked at. for now i will take the convenience option though. for what reasons do you take berberine?

 

[Bluemachine]

extract is much more powerful. I have tried both. Barely even feel goldenseal, but berberine hits like a truck

doesn't sound too encouraging, i hope it was a truck of love. did you take it for it's antibacterial properties or for other reasons? & was it succesful?

 

[Bluemachine]

You're welcome! Yep, I tested negative for parasites via a comprehensive stool test, but still took an anti-parasitic herbal formula when following Dr. Morse's protocol. I didn't feel any negative effects from the herbs, only positive ones, but I did feel negative effects from garlic -- I took activated raw garlic for 7 days based on a forum member's success with it. The only thing it did was upset my stomach and then I came across this quote by Ray:

"[Raw garlic as an antibiotic] It's about as hard on the stomach as on the germs."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Oregano oil always reduced my symptoms, for example, it would clear my rash within a half hour of consuming it. Ray said this about oregano oil:

"It's one of the safest spices (low allergenicity, not mutagenic or carcinogenic), so if it isn't combined with harmful excipients it seems worth trying."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Looking back, I probably could have cleared the SIBO and saved myself a ton of time, effort and money with just oregano oil, diet and NDT.

thanks for finding those quotes, they seem to match my experience. i also tested negative for parasites though i find it difficult to believe all my issues are caused by sibo. maybe i'll try a course of the more antiparasitic herbs if i still feel rough after my current regime. glad you're sibo free :)

 

[Tarmander]

doesn't sound too encouraging, i hope it was a truck of love. did you take it for it's antibacterial properties or for other reasons? & was it succesful?

lol it hit too hard for me to keep taking it. It is quite strong as an antimicrobial, as strong as rifaxamin. Made me angry

 

[inthedark]

ye, i imagine making it yourself would be optimal & also fun, i do worry about the methods and contaminants of most supp companies. and also way cheaper, berberine seems to be one of the more expensive herbs ive looked at. for now i will take the convenience option though. for what reasons do you take berberine?

Some people worry about other compounds in herbs that have unstudied or potential detrimental effects, but for me I love the process of researching an herb, harvesting and making my own medicine (though I do still use supplements too) and I only use herbals that have a solid base of centuries of use.

I believe I started taking berberine because there were some studies that pointed to it being helpful for depression. I don’t take it for that now, but I use oregon grape as an antimicrobial when I’m feeling unwell.