Benzo Withdrawal - Tips And Advice

[CoconutEffect]

How can progesterone possibly be harmful?

People are Microdosing Amanita Muscaria (Muscimol) with Ashton or a slow taper.

@amanitadreamer

 

[S-VV]

I should explain myself about progesterone. It's a very good substance a d I take 300 mg pregnenolone daily.

But, if you are going to use it as a substitute for a benzo, your not curing anything. You are substituting a benzo dependence with an allopregnenalone dependence, which if it sounds good, more power to you.

Both affectthe GABA.A receptor the same way, as positive allosteric modulators, and if you suddenly interrupt the prog treatment, you are going to get the same withdrawal symptoms.

Also, quick withdrawal of any gaba PAM will cause excitotoxicity, leadingto neuronal death and permanent damage that is hard to reverse. Thisis well documented, and was a striking feature of bartiburite withdrawal.

 

[S-VV]

What about lactobacillus rhamnosus?

No idea, I would avoid probiotics unless a concrete need arises or your gut is so messed up that you can only go up.

Probiotics are a Russian roulette.

 

[Beastmode]

The post before this one actually says progesterone is bad for benzos in particular.

You're on the Ray Peat forum and Ray Peat himself recommended it. Always follow what makes sense to you of course.

Hope it works out for you. I can tell you that my family member is a few days off and the progest-e is really helping "curve" the withdrawal effects.

No armchair advice here, just direct feedback from Ray and direct experience from my family member.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I should explain myself about progesterone. It's a very good substance a d I take 300 mg pregnenolone daily.

But, if you are going to use it as a substitute for a benzo, your not curing anything. You are substituting a benzo dependence with an allopregnenalone dependence, which if it sounds good, more power to you.

Both affectthe GABA.A receptor the same way, as positive allosteric modulators, and if you suddenly interrupt the prog treatment, you are going to get the same withdrawal symptoms.

Also, quick withdrawal of any gaba PAM will cause excitotoxicity, leadingto neuronal death and permanent damage that is hard to reverse. Thisis well documented, and was a striking feature of bartiburite withdrawal.

I cold turkeyed my 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium for 4 days, felt really weird in the head and had psychotic symptoms so I reinstated on the same dose after those 4 days. Now the Ativan works less effectively, it lost all of its sedating effects and it doesn't last as long before it wears out. I used to go with it for 8 hours easily, now barely 5 hours before I get withdrawal.

Is there any way to reverse the tolerance/damage done to my gaba receptors?

 

[S-VV]

I cold turkeyed my 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium for 4 days, felt really weird in the head and had psychotic symptoms so I reinstated on the same dose after those 4 days. Now the Ativan works less effectively, it lost all of its sedating effects and it doesn't last as long before it wears out. I used to go with it for 8 hours easily, now barely 5 hours before I get withdrawal.

Is there any way to reverse the tolerance/damage done to my gaba receptors?

Yes. What you experienced (quick withdrawal and a continued loss of effectiveness when reinstating) is called kindling, and it's a well documented phenomenon. The fact that it has already happened once is a good predictor that it will happen again (but worse) every time you try to cold turkey.

The solution is simple. You need to find a dose that will keep most of the symptoms at Bay. After kindling, you may have to increase the dosage a bit. That's ok.

Once you find your baseline dose, you taper down VERY SLOWLY. I cannot emphasize enough how important it to do it slowly. The slow taper will give your body time to slowly recover GABA.A sensitivity and repair the damage. GABAergic sensitivity cannot be recovered quickly. It's a marathon, not a Sprint.

Also, do not attempt to stop drinking or smoking while doing the taper, but be careful not to increase drinking.

 

[S-VV]

Once again, please, do not ever try to cold turkey again, you risk ending up with seizures or worse

 

[TreasureVibe]

Yes. What you experienced (quick withdrawal and a continued loss of effectiveness when reinstating) is called kindling, and it's a well documented phenomenon. The fact that it has already happened once is a good predictor that it will happen again (but worse) every time you try to cold turkey.

The solution is simple. You need to find a dose that will keep most of the symptoms at Bay. After kindling, you may have to increase the dosage a bit. That's ok.

Once you find your baseline dose, you taper down VERY SLOWLY. I cannot emphasize enough how important it to do it slowly. The slow taper will give your body time to slowly recover GABA.A sensitivity and repair the damage. GABAergic sensitivity cannot be recovered quickly. It's a marathon, not a Sprint.

Also, do not attempt to stop drinking or smoking while doing the taper, but be careful not to increase drinking.

I'm also very sensitive to sugar. Drinking a glass of lemonade will give me lots of unrest. So does eating a sandwich with jam. How could this be? I wasn't sensitive to it earlier on.

Also, what do you think of low dose flumazenil therapy to resensitize the gaba receptors? I might be able to enroll into that.

And I want to taper off 30 mg of valium, reducing the dose every 10 days. Is this too fast?

 

[S-VV]

Also, what do you think of low dose flumazenil therapy to resensitize the gaba receptors? I might be able to enroll into that.

The theory is fine, but there is almost no experimental evidence. Also flumazenil can precipitate acute withdrawal cases if the dose is too high. As well, the first weeks on flumenazil you are going to feel worse as your receptors adjust (the same thing happens with low dose naltrexone). At the moment I would not do it because since it's one of the first studies it's probably going to be a "dose discovery" trial, where bad things can happen.

And I want to taper off 30 mg of valium, reducing the dose every 10 days. Is this too fast?

It's fine, just make sure not to reduce the dose more than a 2 or 3 mgs at once. Is there a liquid version you can get, maybe compunded?

I'm also very sensitive to sugar. Drinking a glass of lemonade will give me lots of unrest. So does eating a sandwich with jam. How could this be? I wasn't sensitive to it earlier on.

Yes, this can happen when there is widespread CNS dysregulation, since some neuropeptides affect the immune system, and this will affect how you respond to food. Or maybe you get an exagerated CRH & TSH response after eating. But don't worry about it, as your body adjusts your gaba receptors it will fade away. For now, find appetizing foods that don't trigger a negative response while you taper.

 

[TreasureVibe]

The theory is fine, but there is almost no experimental evidence. Also flumazenil can precipitate acute withdrawal cases if the dose is too high. As well, the first weeks on flumenazil you are going to feel worse as your receptors adjust (the same thing happens with low dose naltrexone). At the moment I would not do it because since it's one of the first studies it's probably going to be a "dose discovery" trial, where bad things can happen.


It's fine, just make sure not to reduce the dose more than a 2 or 3 mgs at once. Is there a liquid version you can get, maybe compunded?


Yes, this can happen when there is widespread CNS dysregulation, since some neuropeptides affect the immune system, and this will affect how you respond to food. Or maybe you get an exagerated CRH & TSH response after eating. But don't worry about it, as your body adjusts your gaba receptors it will fade away. For now, find appetizing foods that don't trigger a negative response while you taper.

I'm going to cut 5 mg per 10 days as I don't have another choice using 10mg pills as the only available source. I can't get liquid Valium compounded.

What about the neuronal death with cold turkey/rapid taper causes nervous sensitivity, does it have anything to do with deterioration of the myelin sheath?

 

[TreasureVibe]

Bump

 

[TreasureVibe]

The theory is fine, but there is almost no experimental evidence. Also flumazenil can precipitate acute withdrawal cases if the dose is too high. As well, the first weeks on flumenazil you are going to feel worse as your receptors adjust (the same thing happens with low dose naltrexone). At the moment I would not do it because since it's one of the first studies it's probably going to be a "dose discovery" trial, where bad things can happen.


It's fine, just make sure not to reduce the dose more than a 2 or 3 mgs at once. Is there a liquid version you can get, maybe compunded?


Yes, this can happen when there is widespread CNS dysregulation, since some neuropeptides affect the immune system, and this will affect how you respond to food. Or maybe you get an exagerated CRH & TSH response after eating. But don't worry about it, as your body adjusts your gaba receptors it will fade away. For now, find appetizing foods that don't trigger a negative response while you taper.

Could you reply to my last question regarding neuronal death and possibly the myelin sheath?

 

[S-VV]

The myelin sheath continuously regenerates, that's why some multiple sclerosis patients gain back significant functionality between attacks.

I don't think there is anything that will speed up remylenation other than clemastine, an OTC antihistamine that is being trialed for MS. Growth hormone may work as well, there are some doctors that use it with MS.

 

[TreasureVibe]

The myelin sheath continuously regenerates, that's why some multiple sclerosis patients gain back significant functionality between attacks.

I don't think there is anything that will speed up remylenation other than clemastine, an OTC antihistamine that is being trialed for MS. Growth hormone may work as well, there are some doctors that use it with MS.

Does injury to the myelin sheath have anything to do with benzo tolerance?

 

[S-VV]

Maybe, but the cardinal symptoms of myelin damage are motor problems and neuropathy. If you don't have them, the damage is not serious and will almost surely heal over time.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Maybe, but the cardinal symptoms of myelin damage are motor problems and neuropathy. If you don't have them, the damage is not serious and will almost surely heal over time.

What is the cause of panic disorder?

 

[aguineapig]

What is the cause of panic disorder?

I essentially eliminated mine with buspirone/cypro (multi pronged anti serotonin, pro dopamine) and beta blockers. I never took benzos or ssri.

 

[Infarouge]

Alpha Stim

 

[S-VV]

What is the cause of panic disorder?

Low GABA and/or high adrenaline

 

[TreasureVibe]

Low GABA and/or high adrenaline

Would increasing gaba in the brain signal the brain to make new gaba a receptors?