Beef Tallow?

[cyclops]

Point being, it would be wise to avoid animal fat in general, but particularly from modern farmed animals

Butter, Milk, Cream, etc is animal fat. I don't think its wise to avoid if from a healthy grassed animal. Aren't these good fats to consume, if including fat in diet?

Of course sick animals are bad.

 

[Ritchie]

Butter, Milk, Cream, etc is animal fat. I don't think its wise to avoid if from a healthy grassed animal. Aren't these good fats to consume, if including fat in diet?

Of course sick animals are bad.

Yeah anything that comes from sick and poorly raised animals with terrible diets on factory farms etc should be avoided for obvious reasons.
As far as the stuff that comes from healthy, free range grass fed animals, I guess the most important thing is to ask yourself what you are eating it for.. Peat likes milk mainly for the protein and calcium, however only drinks skim milk to eliminate the animal fats and potential issues they bring. Butter and cream? I personally don't eat either as I think the negatives outweigh the positives and don't see any need for them... If I use oil for cooking etc it is coconut.

 

[cyclops]

Yeah anything that comes from sick and poorly raised animals with terrible diets on factory farms etc should be avoided for obvious reasons.
As far as the stuff that comes from healthy, free range grass fed animals, I guess the most important thing is to ask yourself what you are eating it for.. Peat likes milk mainly for the protein and calcium, however only drinks skim milk to eliminate the animal fats and potential issues they bring. Butter and cream? I personally don't eat either as I think the negatives outweigh the positives and don't see any need for them... If I use oil for cooking etc it is coconut.

I heard Peat say he drink 1% a bunch of times...did he change to skim now?

Yeah, I'm finding less of a need for fat in diet and beginning to think a low fat diet is very good. Only getting fat from some coconut oil and some other Peat foods where there is a bit.

 

[Ritchie]

I heard Peat say he drink 1% a bunch of times...did he change to skim now?

Yeah by skim I meant the reduced fat milk Peat drinks, 1% sounds right..

 

[BibleBeliever]

Yeah anything that comes from sick and poorly raised animals with terrible diets on factory farms etc should be avoided for obvious reasons.
As far as the stuff that comes from healthy, free range grass fed animals, I guess the most important thing is to ask yourself what you are eating it for.. Peat likes milk mainly for the protein and calcium, however only drinks skim milk to eliminate the animal fats and potential issues they bring. Butter and cream? I personally don't eat either as I think the negatives outweigh the positives and don't see any need for them... If I use oil for cooking etc it is coconut.

What negatives? This sounds like vegan type anti-meat propaganda. Balance proteins in meats with gelatin proteins.
Meat is very nutrient dense. Meat fat is saturated and healthy.

 

[charlie]

Yeah anything that comes from sick and poorly raised animals with terrible diets on factory farms etc should be avoided for obvious reasons.
As far as the stuff that comes from healthy, free range grass fed animals, I guess the most important thing is to ask yourself what you are eating it for.. Peat likes milk mainly for the protein and calcium, however only drinks skim milk to eliminate the animal fats and potential issues they bring. Butter and cream? I personally don't eat either as I think the negatives outweigh the positives and don't see any need for them... If I use oil for cooking etc it is coconut.

Your posts are full of misinformation. Do you even Peat?

 

[cyclops]

Meat is very nutrient dense. Meat fat is saturated and healthy.

Yea but what is the purpose of eating animal fat even if the animal is healthy? If you had a piece of meat that had 30 grams of protein, 30 grams of gelatin and 60 grams of fat vs another piece that had 30 grams of protein, 30 grams of gelatin and 6 grams of fat (both from the healthiest grass-fed cows) which one do you eat and why? Of course, you can find meat with any number of grams of fat, but how much animal fat does a person need? What is the purpose of eating it?

 

[BibleBeliever]

Yea but what is the purpose of eating animal fat even if the animal is healthy? If you had a piece of meat that had 30 grams of protein, 30 grams of gelatin and 60 grams of fat vs another piece that had 30 grams of protein, 30 grams of gelatin and 6 grams of fat (both from the healthiest grass-fed cows) which one do you eat and why? Of course, you can find meat with any number of grams of fat, but how much animal fat does a person need? What is the purpose of eating it?

Pro-testosterone and energy. Helps carry the fat-soluble vitamins; grass-fed animals should have vitamin k2 in their fat too. It is also anti-bacterial.
At work there is this guy who cuts off the fat of his lamb/beef, etc and always gives it to me. I always find a good muscle pump/energy from the animal fat.

Many here do advocate a lower-fat diet, anytime I've tried it, it fails miserably. I have Ray recommending up to 50% fat in a diet.
I would take the 60 grams.

A WestonPrice article on the importance of animal fat (their stance is wrong on pufas being necessary though), but it is interesting:

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/

 

[cyclops]

Pro-testosterone and energy. Helps carry the fat-soluble vitamins; grass-fed animals should have vitamin k2 in their fat too. It is also anti-bacterial.
At work there is this guy who cuts off the fat of his lamb/beef, etc and always gives it to me. I always find a good muscle pump/energy from the animal fat.

Many here do advocate a lower-fat diet, anytime I've tried it, it fails miserably. I have Ray recommending up to 50% fat in a diet.
I would take the 60 grams.

A WestonPrice article on the importance of animal fat (their stance is wrong on Pufas though), but it is interesting:

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/

This is interesting to me because I am currently doing a very low fat diet experiment in an effort to lose body fat.

Some people on here were saying that eating Cholesterol is more important for testosterone and steroid production then fat. Do you know exactly how saturated fat is pro testosterone?

My experience is I have more energy on low fat. Fat seems to weigh me down and make me sluggish. I never heard the anti bacterial stuff before, except for coconut oil. I still have a bit of coconut oil so I still think I am getting benefits even on very low fat diet.

When you tried low fat, what percentage of diet was fat? Were you in a calorie deficit, actively trying to lose body fat? Were you eating Peat?

What is your body fat percentage now?

 

[BibleBeliever]

This is interesting to me because I am currently doing a very low fat diet experiment in an effort to lose body fat.

Some people on here were saying that eating Cholesterol is more important for testosterone and steroid production then fat. Do you know exactly how saturated fat is pro testosterone?

My experience is I have more energy on low fat. Fat seems to weigh me down and make me sluggish. I never heard the anti bacterial stuff before, except for coconut oil. I still have a bit of coconut oil so I still think I am getting benefits even on very low fat diet.

When you tried low fat, what percentage of diet was fat? Were you in a calorie deficit, actively trying to lose body fat? Were you eating Peat?

What is your body fat percentage now?

This talks about it: https://www.anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/

"Now, if we start to look at the research, we can see that the same pattern takes place in majority of the studies; total intake of mixed fatty-acids results in increased testosterone production, increased intake of SFA and MUFA results in higher testosterone production, BUT increased intake of PUFA suppresses testosterone production."

There are a few users on this forum repeating the above in some threads, but I can't find them in my bookmarks.


I tried just a bit of coconut oil, very high fruits and skim milk and gelatin as protein source. I had lots of coffees. I tried adding in biotin and b1, animal thyroid to boost energy from sugars and b3 as well.
I was eating as much as I craved. Just noticed irritability, fatigue and muscular weakness, with very poor digestion. Not sure of exact fat %, but very low especially compared to what I have now, which probably is closer to 60% fat. (butter, animal fats, dark chocolate fats and coconut oil)

One of the threads here talks about the anti-bacterial effects of saturated fats, but couldn't find it in my bookmarks either.

Not sure of body fat %. Body is similar to the bear-mode strong-fat type. I tend to lose weight if I keep carbs to a minimum.

Pretty active: Usually 7.5 hours of biking a week. 2 boxing sessions that consist of roughly 15 minutes skipping, 30 minutes running; forwards, backwards, side to side, cross-overs, sprints, 15 minutes shadow boxing, 20 minutes bagwork and 20 minutes ab work. 2-3 work out sessions at home; a work out might be something like stair climbing with 250 lbs on/being carried, also skipping, sprints, weight lifting, push ups, etc.
A physical job that involves moving tires.
I make sure to eat more when exercising to help counter the negative byproducts, while keeping the positive.

 

[Ritchie]

Your posts are full of misinformation. Do you even Peat?

Haha I've been reading Peat and incorporating his writings, perspective and understanding of human physiology into my life for about 5 years... I've read him extensively. What many people don't realise is that Peat is not a diet guru. Perceive, think, act is explicit in his writings and he is anti-authoritarian. Therefore Peat is not for the "instruction-manual" speaking type. One must read Peat in sufficiently broad scope, think about his writings as a whole, perceive them for what they are and then act within ones own life based off the logic of it all.. It's clear that some things are worse than others when weighed on a pros vs cons type scale. In other words, perceive in his writings what is important and what is not when translated to your diet, in this look elsewhere to other sources and science relative. Out source some of the information, Peat can't and doesn't communicate everything you need to know and science is constantly evolving with new info so do some work yourself.. Then think about it all from an objective, overall view point, see what fits where. Look at the pros and cons of each food etc based on what Peat and others say about them, and then act on your conclusions incorporating Peat into your own life. Don't do and eat what Peat does and eats, read Peat and think for yourself... I do this. In regard to your statement that my posts are full of misinformation, can you give me some specifics on those that you disagree with?

 

[cyclops]

I tried just a bit of coconut oil, very high fruits and skim milk and gelatin as protein source. I had lots of coffees. I tried adding in biotin and b1, animal thyroid to boost energy from sugars and b3 as well.
I was eating as much as I craved. Just noticed irritability, fatigue and muscular weakness, with very poor digestion. Not sure of exact fat %, but very low especially compared to what I have now, which probably is closer to 60% fat. (butter, animal fats, dark chocolate fats and coconut oil)

One of the threads here talks about the anti-bacterial effects of saturated fats, but couldn't find it in my bookmarks either.

Not sure of body fat %. Body is similar to the bear-mode strong-fat type. I tend to lose weight if I keep carbs to a minimum.

I'm doing a similar diet now, but I also eat lots of starch and vegetables and meat. Digestion seems good.

I too had more of a "bear mode" physique but I got tired of it. I like having lots of muscle but I also want low body fat. I look and feel better lean. This wasn't happening for me consuming much dietary fat I think. So that's why Im eating very low fat.

 

[nerfherder]

But those Japanese cows are especial breeds with high fat content in muscles , according to data i can find.

They are different than other breeds of cows.

They keep them in a small pen for a a year or two and feed them cereals. You do that to an Angus and you'll get a well-marbled animal although the Wagyu do marble better over time. Even feedlot cattle aren't in a pen for more than a few months.

 

[nerfherder]

Just look into it mate, the information is not hard to find. Wagyu cows are at one end of the spectrum (high PUFA), grain/soy fed and captive animals next (becoming quite marbled in the fat throughout muscle and almost becoming similar to wagyu in PUFA) and grass fed, free range has less. Regardless, they are all very high in monounsaturates. Mind posting the quote/video from Peat?

I wrote something up about this a while back. % of the fat as PUFA went from 6-7% (on pasture) to 9-10% (in confinement) in the study I found. There's usually more fat in a confinement animal so you have to take that into account. I don't know if you consider 10% of fat as PUFA to be a high percentage or not.

 

[Ritchie]

I wrote something up about this a while back. % of the fat as PUFA went from 6-7% (on pasture) to 9-10% (in confinement) in the study I found. There's usually more fat in a confinement animal so you have to take that into account. I don't know if you consider 10% of fat as PUFA to be a high percentage or not.

Interesting, thanks.. I clicked on the link you posted in that post but it didn't lead anywhere but an error page. MUFA goes up quite significantly as well, so if you have a rise of double (or close to) in PUFA, and a further significant rise in MUFA accompanying that, the animal fat becomes predominantly unsaturated which brings with it all sorts of issues as Peat and others have written extensively about (particularly when cooked, which is almost always the case with animal fat). Regardless, on average, ruminant animal fat is about half saturated, half unsaturated (MUFA + PUFA).

 

[Ritchie]

What negatives? This sounds like vegan type anti-meat propaganda. Balance proteins in meats with gelatin proteins.
Meat is very nutrient dense. Meat fat is saturated and healthy.

Read Peat (along with other like minded, scientifically based, unbiased research) and think for yourself. If these are the conclusions you make, then good luck to you. Just be aware to perceive whats going on for you in terms of your health over time and make changes where necessary (in perspective as well).

 

[nerfherder]

I clicked on the link you posted in that post but it didn't lead anywhere but an error page.

Darn, and I don't have a copy on my pc. Maybe I'll try to find it. The obvious typo in the URL was probably in the original.

There are plenty of research papers that cover this. Here is a summary of a few but you'll have to aggregate the data to get the overall numbers.

Also this project breaks down the fats in a table. Overall fat content of a concentration operation cow is much higher in general. That being said you can get well-finished grass-fed cattle too. That's what I do for a living .

 

[managing]

Have any links? Ray does say that ruminant animals fed pufa will convert it to saturated fat. I've heard it on the raypeatclips youtube.

You are both right. Its just relative. Yes, ruminants are very good at converting PUFA to SFA.

AND

The more PUFA they are fed, the greater the genetic disposition, etc, the higher the PUFA of their own fat.

IOW, they are very good at converting a significant % of PUFA to SFA, but, they can't convert it all.

A cow free ranged on grasses will have MUCH higher SFA than one raised in restricted space on very high PUFA grains. But even the hi PUFA grain fed cow will have a higher SFA ratio than what they were fed.

 

[cyclops]

A cow free ranged on grasses will have MUCH higher SFA than one raised in restricted space on very high PUFA grains. But even the hi PUFA grain fed cow will have a higher SFA ratio than what they were fed.

Isn't all the fat in grass PUFA? Why do cows have a much higher SFA ratio when eating grass as opposed to grains or whatever else?

Is it just that grass-fed cows eat less fat overall? If so, doesn't that mean just avoiding the fat in conventional beef would be almost as good? Lean beef plus grass-fed butter or coconut oil. Thats what I do as I can't afford grass-fed meat.

 

[managing]

Isn't all the fat in grass PUFA? Why do cows have a much higher SFA ratio when eating grass as opposed to grains or whatever else?

Is it just that grass-fed cows eat less fat overall? If so, doesn't that mean just avoiding the fat in conventional beef would be almost as good? Lean beef plus grass-fed butter or coconut oil. Thats what I do as I can't afford grass-fed meat.

Its a great question. I don't know the answer.