Beef Liver Question

cyclops

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Ray has said the following in regard to liver:

"In the US, there is a widespread meat cult, that insists meat should be stored for two weeks before it's sold; it's convenient for the corporations that want everything to have an indefinitely long shelf-life, but it's bad for the public health. 150 years ago, when refrigeration was rare, the 'high' flavor of meat was considered to be good, and people who were used to eating the half rotten stuff shaped the meat culture, and people looked for a 'scientific' rationale for keeping meat in storage until it lost its fresh taste. The rationale is that it becomes tender, as the enzymes cause the meat to digest itself. That process starts after the glucose and glycogen in the muscle have been depleted, and the collagen and other proteins begin to be degraded. Besides losing the amino acid balance of fresh meat, the products include the cancer-promoting polyamines. Liver contains far more of the self-digesting enzymes than muscles do, and its glycogen is depleted in just a few hours. This is why liver in the US tastes so terrible. Since liver and eggs contain many of the same essential nutrients in high concentration, and eggs don't digest themselves, that's why I eat a few eggs in the US, despite their known high content of PUFA. When I can avoid the PUFA, I do; and in Mexico, liver and other meats aren't stored, except maybe in the supermarkets that serve foreigners."

I was just wondering if anyone knows how this applies to high quality liver that has been frozen? There are a few companies online now where you can order supposedly very high quality liver (grass-fed, pastured, organic, etc) and it comes delivered to your house frozen. I'd imagine these companies take great care in freezing the liver quickly and it does have a better color and taste then what you'd normally get at big chain supermarkets.

I am wondering though, does this online liver still have the negatives Ray discusses above in regard to being stored for two weeks and therefore degrading itself and containing polyamines? I'd hate to go through the trouble and cost of ordering a product that is really no better then what I could pick up at the supermarket.
 
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lvysaur

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Is there a source on the two weeks statistic? I think ultimately this comes down to money and spoilage, you can think of it like milk. Milk can have the lactose fermented, which prevents putrefactive bacteria. Or it can be kept very fresh at expense.

Same with beef, the glycogen can be fermented into lactic acid, which prevents putrefaction. Or it can be kept fresh expensively. The difference here is that beef isn't pasteurized so the fresh option is even more costly.

Interesting read here: https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/wbic/files/2011/04/Dark-Firm-and-Dry-Beef.pdf

That pdf also states things that are in accordance with Peat's view of sex as stress:

Secondly, young bulls are generally more aggressive and tend to have a higher incidence d DFD carcasses. Heifers in estrus generally tend to exhibit a higher percentage of dark, firm and dry lean due to the expression of breeding behavior.
 
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virtually all meat in the USA is "wet aged" through the supply chain. It is wrapped and stored and this is absolutely true.

Aging Beef

I'm not sure liver goes through this process though. I doubt it does. I would imagine it is quick frozen and sent through the supply chain without aging.

If you want to be sure, do as I try to do, and buy direct at a farmer's market. The beef still has to be "processed" at an FDA supervised slaughterhouse, but you will know more about how it was grown.

I am cooking liver I bought from the farmer this morning, and it is definitely not aged. It was frozen and when I thawed it, it had a very fresh smell. Liver quickly goes "off" in flavor if it's aged.
 

Dave Clark

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Wondering about the beef liver supplements like: Grass Fed Desiccated Beef Liver [180 Capsules] ? They say they are freeze dried. I like this form of getting beef liver, because organic grass-fed liver is hard to find in my area, plus the convenience of just taking the caps when you want to get your liver. Like most people, I am not the biggest fan of liver no matter how it is cooked, or how fresh it is, but I have been eating it for 50 years, so I am used to the taste. Ancestral Supplements seems like a very high quality company, Chris Masterjohn promotes them as well. Hoping there is no down side to the liver supplements, like the polyamines, etc.
 
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Wondering about the beef liver supplements like: Grass Fed Desiccated Beef Liver [180 Capsules] ? They say they are freeze dried. I like this form of getting beef liver, because organic grass-fed liver is hard to find in my area, plus the convenience of just taking the caps when you want to get your liver. Like most people, I am not the biggest fan of liver no matter how it is cooked, or how fresh it is, but I have been eating it for 50 years, so I am used to the taste. Ancestral Supplements seems like a very high quality company, Chris Masterjohn promotes them as well. Hoping there is no down side to the liver supplements, like the polyamines, etc.

I use these too for my wife who hates liver. I would imagine the process of freeze drying denatures things but it is probably better than no liver at all...maybe...
 

magnesiumania

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Wondering about the beef liver supplements like: Grass Fed Desiccated Beef Liver [180 Capsules] ? They say they are freeze dried. I like this form of getting beef liver, because organic grass-fed liver is hard to find in my area, plus the convenience of just taking the caps when you want to get your liver. Like most people, I am not the biggest fan of liver no matter how it is cooked, or how fresh it is, but I have been eating it for 50 years, so I am used to the taste. Ancestral Supplements seems like a very high quality company, Chris Masterjohn promotes them as well. Hoping there is no down side to the liver supplements, like the polyamines, etc.

No downsides, ive been taking 2 differnt brands. Just make sure it un-defatted. The fat is important for the absorption of copper.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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I use these too for my wife who hates liver. I would imagine the process of freeze drying denatures things but it is probably better than no liver at all...maybe...

Yea, If you're gonna take a pill, and not eat the liver, I'd be tempted to just take whatever vitamins and minerals I need. I guess this better though.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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virtually all meat in the USA is "wet aged" through the supply chain. It is wrapped and stored and this is absolutely true.

Aging Beef

I'm not sure liver goes through this process though. I doubt it does. I would imagine it is quick frozen and sent through the supply chain without aging.

If you want to be sure, do as I try to do, and buy direct at a farmer's market. The beef still has to be "processed" at an FDA supervised slaughterhouse, but you will know more about how it was grown.

I am cooking liver I bought from the farmer this morning, and it is definitely not aged. It was frozen and when I thawed it, it had a very fresh smell. Liver quickly goes "off" in flavor if it's aged.

In regard to Peat saying "In the US, there is a widespread meat cult, that insists meat should be stored for two weeks before it's sold..." Wouldn't this mean the meat is frozen during this time though? So in order words, is Peat saying that freezing the meat for two weeks (or more) is bad and makes the Liver not as good. Does he ideally want you eating the Liver fresh from an animal slaughtered that day without having frozen it?
 
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In regard to Peat saying "In the US, there is a widespread meat cult, that insists meat should be stored for two weeks before it's sold..." Wouldn't this mean the meat is frozen during this time though? So in order words, is Peat saying that freezing the meat for two weeks (or more) is bad and makes the Liver not as good. Does he ideally want you eating the Liver fresh from an animal slaughtered that day without having frozen it?

No I don’t think it is frozen during aging. Yes he does.
 

BigChad

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I use these too for my wife who hates liver. I would imagine the process of freeze drying denatures things but it is probably better than no liver at all...maybe...

Wouldnt cooking a fresh liver denature it more than freeze drying it? Or no
 

Dave Clark

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I think freeze drying is much more traumatic to the liver.
What would be the reason for that? I did a search on freeze drying, after that Dr. Thompson guy was saying that freeze drying destroys whole food vitamin C, and everything I see pretty much says it is the gold standard for preserving nutrients, etc. Thompson, by the way, has no research to back up his assertion, says he won't have any until next year, yet tells people as if the jury is in on freeze drying.
 

tara

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What is the best way to eat liver, or any beef meat or organs. Lightly cooking/grilling?
Some way that is tasty to you.
Finding a way to eat it that you like is better than not eating it at all.

If it weren't for the risk of parasites, raw might be the most nutritious.
I don't want parasites - I fry mine lightly. Not sure, but maybe freezing cold enough for a long enough may also kill off the pathogens (I think that's how fish can be made safe for sushi, right?). Over-cooking liver spoils the taste.
 
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I've been pressure-cooking my beef liver for the past month or so. Before I was steaming it, but I found it was hard to digest that way.
 

tara

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I don't want parasites - I fry mine lightly.
I was thinking about liver. I also fry steak sometimes, and kidney and heart. Other forms of beef I treat differently. Ox tongue, gelatinous joints or stewing steak I boil. Occasionally roast a bigger chunk. Lamb or mutton is good roasted.

I am wondering though, does this online liver still have the negatives Ray discusses above in regard to being stored for two weeks and therefore degrading itself and containing polyamines? I'd hate to go through the trouble and cost of ordering a product that is really no better then what I could pick up at the supermarket.
The other thing about this is that if you might be able to email the supplier and ask them how fresh i t is when it is frozen, but the real test is the quality if you get some. Even frozen and defrosted, it should be a rick dark red colour, not greyish, and it should taste slightly sweet if lightly cooked (I haven't tried it raw).
 

schultz

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The liver I eat comes frozen. I would imagine they freeze that liver pretty quickly once the animal is killed and sincerely doubt they age the liver (no one said they did, but someone might think it was implied). The frozen stuff I buy tastes great. I never buy the thawed stuff that is sitting on the meat shelf at the grocery store...

Best way to cook it is on a charcoal grill. I thaw it in warm water right before I cook it (like 5 minutes). It thaws quickly. The liver I use is vacuum sealed in single 4oz packs so it's no problem dropping them in water. I never do all that soaking in milk or whatever that other people do. Waste of time, good milk, and IMO doesn't do anything (and possibly makes it taste worse). The liver I make has a very light flavour and is subtly sweet. If it tastes the way my goats smell then it's probably starting to go bad.

Side note: I butchered an animal in December and didn't age the meat at all. Usually you let the carcass go through rigor mortis, but that can be bypassed by grinding the meat right away. Adding salt to the ground meat helps prevent the lactic acid from being produced (I think I am remembering correctly... I'll have to double check that as it has been a while since I read the paper I am basing that on) Anyhoo it made excellent sausage and hamburgers. People think goat tastes strong for some reason. Maybe they are eating aged goat? Goat has some medium and short chain fats that can taste strong (maybe stronger if aged?). That's why it's called capric acid (capric refers to goats). The recent goat I butchered in December was 4 years old and a male. Tasted pretty mild. I actually was hoping for a bit more gaminess.
 

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