Be Wary Of Vitamin D Supplementation

raypeatclips

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@Amazoniac My D levels dropped from low 30s to low 20s during the month. I am starting to think I didn't use the tanning beds enough though. Ray has said tanning is indicative of raising D levels and I had no sort of tan at all, due to being weary with the tanning beds and going for the shortest sessions possible. I didn't feel any different that I noticed.
 

burtlancast

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Are you actually getting paid to post this by any chance? Perhaps you work for Zeus, which in turn works for Michael Holick, which in turn works for the vitamin D industry,

I asked them all for a shill fee, with no success.

Now, seriously, according to your graph, supplementing with 2000 IU or 8000 IU hardly raises the levels above the 100 bar. And 6000 UI actually raises more your blood levels than 8000 UI, lol.

In Hollick's book, a whole lot of good happens to those around this 100 value.
He states toxicity begins only at 150.

The auto-immune people use 40000 to 250000 IU /day, with just a restriction on lactate products and an obligation to drink 2 liters/day of water.

Out of 4500 treated patients, only 2 encountered toxicity, and that's because they were laxist in their diet. Both totally recovered after going back to the strict protocol.

Makes you wonder how really toxic is Vitamin D.

I reckon deficiency is way more toxic.
 
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burtlancast

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I've read multiple times that too much vitamin D can suppress the immune system.

You must have misread "immune system" for "autoimmunity".

Vit D supplementation enhances immunity but decreases autoimmunity.
 
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somuch4food

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Vit D supplementation enhances immunity but decreases autoimmunity.

That's simplistic. Vitamin D is but only one small part of a complex system. It is useful, but it must not be overdone.

Another article in the same line as what I posted: Excess Vitamin D: Too Much Of A Good Thing? - Nature of Healing

It mentions that high dose vitamin D can be useful in the short run. In the long term, it can cause relapse though as the inactive vitamin binds to receptors.
 
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@Amazoniac My D levels dropped from low 30s to low 20s during the month. I am starting to think I didn't use the tanning beds enough though. Ray has said tanning is indicative of raising D levels and I had no sort of tan at all, due to being weary with the tanning beds and going for the shortest sessions possible. I didn't feel any different that I noticed.

You should not be wary; I think going for the slightest burn every other week is fine, as per my message above on SEDs

By the way to whoever asked: 1 SED = one standard erythemal dose = the amount it took to cause a bit of reddening.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2133.2011.10697.x
Exposure to a UVB dose of 1 SED every second week to ∼88% body area is sufficient for maintaining summer 25(OH)D levels during the winter.


This is also an interesting loading+maintenance approach:

One pill every two weeks gives you all the vitamin D most adults need |

with an interesting note:
Cofactors should be adjusted- especially if taken for many months
Calcium intake to 500 mg/day (dairy products, food, supplements)
Increase Magnesium supplements to 500 mg/day

I don't usually speak in absolutes, being above 1g of both Ca and Mg myself it's probably a matter of keeping a tight 1:1 ratio.
 

Amazoniac

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@Amazoniac My D levels dropped from low 30s to low 20s during the month. I am starting to think I didn't use the tanning beds enough though. Ray has said tanning is indicative of raising D levels and I had no sort of tan at all, due to being weary with the tanning beds and going for the shortest sessions possible. I didn't feel any different that I noticed.
What about being between an UVb and a heat lamp?

I asked them all for a shill fee, with no success.

Now, seriously, according to your graph, supplementing with 2000 IU or 8000 IU hardly raises the levels above the 100 bar. And 6000 UI actually raises more your blood levels than 8000 UI, lol.

In Hollick's book, a whole lot of good happens to those around this 100 value.
He states toxicity begins only at 150.

The auto-immune people use 40000 to 250000 IU /day, with just a restriction on lactate products and an obligation to drink 2 liters/day of water.

Out of 4500 treated patients, only 2 encountered toxicity, and that's because they were laxist in their diet. Both totally recovered after going back to the strict protocol.

Makes you wonder how really toxic is Vitamin D.

I reckon deficiency is way more toxic.
It's the cluster that gives the sense of direction, the outlier lives don't matter, in fact I have assassinated a few ones when erasing those lines.


Can adverse effects of excessive vitamin D supplementation occur without developing hypervitaminosis D?

"The levels of vitamin D are clinically estimated from measuring the circulating levels of 25(OH)D, which include circulating forms of both 25(OH)D2 and 25(OH)D3 of the vitamin; yet not all the immunoassays used to measure 25(OH)D in clinical practice can detect 25(OH)D2 [14]. Such technical limitation might be related to a stronger affinity of the vitamin D binding protein (DBP) for 25(OH)D2 [15]. The biochemical assays have wide variability and sensitivities depending on the method used to detect the level of 25(OH)D. Studies have shown that total serum vitamin D [25(OH)D2 + 25(OH)D3] levels, as measured by liquid chromatographytandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS), were lower than the total levels obtained by chemiluminescence assays [16]. It is likely that the cross-reactivity of various vitamin D metabolites such as 24,25(OH)2D3 and 25,26(OH)2D3 may influence the values obtained by the chemiluminescence assays [17]."

"The circulating levels of vitamin D may not always reflect its true values and activities, as there are tissues beyond kidneys that possess an enzymatically active 1:ss2(OH)ase [18], and are able to generate biologically active 1,25(OH)2D3 locally. For example, VDRs are present in most of the human tissues, including in vascular smooth muscle cells [19, 20]. Of relevance, vascular smooth muscle cells also have 1:ss2(OH)ase enzyme to be able to produce bioactive metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3 [18], and thereby can establish a locally active vitamin D circuit that might not be evident from the circulating levels of vitamin D. Similar locally active vitamin D acting ligand-receptor circuit is also detected in other tissues, including in macrophages, monocytes and activated T cells. It is becoming increasingly apparent that all the autocrine, paracrine, and endocrine functions of vitamin D are not always reflected from its serum levels."

"In addition, race, pigmentation and age can influence the plasma levels of 25(OH)D. [Once again the sun being a racialist, making some of us work harder to obtain the same amount] As mentioned, most of the peripheral tissues are able to process circulating 25(OH)D to the biologically active metabolite 1,25(OH)2D3 to cover their local needs and might not be reflected from its serum levels [18]. Furthermore, because of lipid solubility, supplement-derived vitamin D2 or D3 can be stored in the liver, muscles and fat tissues which would not reflect on serum levels. A major problem in evaluating the earlier studies on the effects of vitamin D status on various organ system is impaired by the wide variability of the results obtained from laboratories that adopt different methods to detect circulating 25(OH)D levels [26, 27]."

"Optimal level of vitamin D is required for physiologic regulations of mineral ion metabolism. It is also involved in modulation of inflammation, cell proliferation and cell differentiation. Vitamin D can induce the expression of various genes [29], thorough interacting with its ubiquitously distributed receptors (VDRs). Numerous studies have shown that serum calcium and phosphate levels increased after intake of high doses of vitamin D supplementation, even when circulating vitamin D level remained low [12]. Such low level of circulating vitamin D is usually used as an evidence of safety by the advocates of vitamin D supplementation."

"It is important to note that vitamin D intoxication following intense UVB exposure is unlikely, as the dermal synthesis of vitamin D is self-regulated process. The dietary consumption of vitamin D usually provides about 10 to 20% of required amount, and therefore vitamin D intoxication by dietary intake is practically not conceivable. Consequently, vitamin D intoxication may only be induced by excessive ingestion of vitamin D supplements [36, 37]. The need and effects of vitamin D supplementation on health are not easy to determine, as circulating levels of 25(OH)D could be influenced by the sunlight exposure and consumption of fortified food. Furthermore, lack of uniform standard makes it harder to compare the published results of the studies that used different 25(OH)D assays [38, 39]. Though, the mean lethal dose (LD50) of vitamin D in humans has been estimated as 21 mg/kg (840,000 IU/kg) [40], in reality, extreme high doses of supplement consumption would rarely raise the vitamin D level that is deemed toxic, and is used as evidence by the advocates of vitamin D supplementation to convince the consumers of taking higher doses supplement for prolonged periods. It is important to mention that, because of lipid solubility, supplement-derived vitamin D2 or D3 can be stored in the liver, muscles and fat tissues and serum vitamin D [25(OH)D] levels would not reflect such storage amount. The features of vitamin D intoxication, including hypercalcemia and/or hypercalciuria, therefore, may persist for months despite the removal of the exogenous source of vitamin D due its lipophilic properties and storage in fat tissues."

"Of clinical importance, the cellular phosphorus burden induced by excessive vitamin D supplementation might contribute to the cellular pathology, even when serum vitamin D levels show hypovitaminosis D status. A wide range of cellular pathology is attributed to cellular phosphorus burden, including necrosis, apoptosis and senescence [47-53]. Available evidences suggest that phosphorus toxicity is a stealth biochemical stress factor that needs greater recognition by researchers and nutrition boards [54]."​

Subtle adverse effects are difficult to identify. It took quite a while for people to realize that calcium supplementation can do harm.


But it's impressive how much a person can tolerate:

Vitamin D intoxication: case report

"The patient took a compounded cholecalciferol supplement. Overdose was found by laboratory analysis of the capsules that contained 4,000,000 IU instead of 2,000 IU per capsule. This kind of compounding error may occur mainly when dealing with very-low dose products; in such cases, the pure input is not weighed, it is just diluted."​
 
Last edited:

raypeatclips

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Joined
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Messages
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You should not be wary; I think going for the slightest burn every other week is fine, as per my message above on SEDs

By the way to whoever asked: 1 SED = one standard erythemal dose = the amount it took to cause a bit of reddening.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2133.2011.10697.x



This is also an interesting loading+maintenance approach:

One pill every two weeks gives you all the vitamin D most adults need |

with an interesting note:


I don't usually speak in absolutes, being above 1g of both Ca and Mg myself it's probably a matter of keeping a tight 1:1 ratio.

I was never anywhere near burning or reddening. I am naturally a little bit tan and was going for lowest amounts. I guess I should've done more. Are you not concerned about skin cancers etc?

What about being between an UVb and a heat lamp?


It's the cluster that gives the sense of direction, the outlier lives don't matter, in fact I have assassinated a few ones when erasing those lines.


Can adverse effects of excessive vitamin D supplementation occur without developing hypervitaminosis D?

"The levels of vitamin D are clinically estimated from measuring the circulating levels of 25(OH)D, which include circulating forms of both 25(OH)D2 and 25(OH)D3 of the vitamin; yet not all the immunoassays used to measure 25(OH)D in clinical practice can detect 25(OH)D2 [14]. Such technical limitation might be related to a stronger affinity of the vitamin D binding protein (DBP) for 25(OH)D2 [15]. The biochemical assays have wide variability and sensitivities depending on the method used to detect the level of 25(OH)D. Studies have shown that total serum vitamin D [25(OH)D2 + 25(OH)D3] levels, as measured by liquid chromatographytandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS), were lower than the total levels obtained by chemiluminescence assays [16]. It is likely that the cross-reactivity of various vitamin D metabolites such as 24,25(OH)2D3 and 25,26(OH)2D3 may influence the values obtained by the chemiluminescence assays [17]."

"The circulating levels of vitamin D may not always reflect its true values and activities, as there are tissues beyond kidneys that possess an enzymatically active 1:ss2(OH)ase [18], and are able to generate biologically active 1,25(OH)2D3 locally. For example, VDRs are present in most of the human tissues, including in vascular smooth muscle cells [19, 20]. Of relevance, vascular smooth muscle cells also have 1:ss2(OH)ase enzyme to be able to produce bioactive metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3 [18], and thereby can establish a locally active vitamin D circuit that might not be evident from the circulating levels of vitamin D. Similar locally active vitamin D acting ligand-receptor circuit is also detected in other tissues, including in macrophages, monocytes and activated T cells. It is becoming increasingly apparent that all the autocrine, paracrine, and endocrine functions of vitamin D are not always reflected from its serum levels."

"In addition, race, pigmentation and age can influence the plasma levels of 25(OH)D. [Once again the sun being a racialist, making some of us work harder to obtain the same amount] As mentioned, most of the peripheral tissues are able to process circulating 25(OH)D to the biologically active metabolite 1,25(OH)2D3 to cover their local needs and might not be reflected from its serum levels [18]. Furthermore, because of lipid solubility, supplement-derived vitamin D2 or D3 can be stored in the liver, muscles and fat tissues which would not reflect on serum levels. A major problem in evaluating the earlier studies on the effects of vitamin D status on various organ system is impaired by the wide variability of the results obtained from laboratories that adopt different methods to detect circulating 25(OH)D levels [26, 27]."

"Optimal level of vitamin D is required for physiologic regulations of mineral ion metabolism. It is also involved in modulation of inflammation, cell proliferation and cell differentiation. Vitamin D can induce the expression of various genes [29], thorough interacting with its ubiquitously distributed receptors (VDRs). Numerous studies have shown that serum calcium and phosphate levels increased after intake of high doses of vitamin D supplementation, even when circulating vitamin D level remained low [12]. Such low level of circulating vitamin D is usually used as an evidence of safety by the advocates of vitamin D supplementation."

"It is important to note that vitamin D intoxication following intense UVB exposure is unlikely, as the dermal synthesis of vitamin D is self-regulated process. The dietary consumption of vitamin D usually provides about 10 to 20% of required amount, and therefore vitamin D intoxication by dietary intake is practically not conceivable. Consequently, vitamin D intoxication may only be induced by excessive ingestion of vitamin D supplements [36, 37]. The need and effects of vitamin D supplementation on health are not easy to determine, as circulating levels of 25(OH)D could be influenced by the sunlight exposure and consumption of fortified food. Furthermore, lack of uniform standard makes it harder to compare the published results of the studies that used different 25(OH)D assays [38, 39]. Though, the mean lethal dose (LD50) of vitamin D in humans has been estimated as 21 mg/kg (840,000 IU/kg) [40], in reality, extreme high doses of supplement consumption would rarely raise the vitamin D level that is deemed toxic, and is used as evidence by the advocates of vitamin D supplementation to convince the consumers of taking higher doses supplement for prolonged periods. It is important to mention that, because of lipid solubility, supplement-derived vitamin D2 or D3 can be stored in the liver, muscles and fat tissues and serum vitamin D [25(OH)D] levels would not reflect such storage amount. The features of vitamin D intoxication, including hypercalcemia and/or hypercalciuria, therefore, may persist for months despite the removal of the exogenous source of vitamin D due its lipophilic properties and storage in fat tissues."

"Of clinical importance, the cellular phosphorus burden induced by excessive vitamin D supplementation might contribute to the cellular pathology, even when serum vitamin D levels show hypovitaminosis D status. A wide range of cellular pathology is attributed to cellular phosphorus burden, including necrosis, apoptosis and senescence [47-53]. Available evidences suggest that phosphorus toxicity is a stealth biochemical stress factor that needs greater recognition by researchers and nutrition boards [54]."​

Subtle adverse effects are difficult to identify. It took quite a while for people to realize that calcium supplementation can do harm.


But it's impressive how much a person can tolerate:

Vitamin D intoxication: case report

"The patient took a compounded cholecalciferol supplement. Overdose was found by laboratory analysis of the capsules that contained 4,000,000 IU instead of 2,000 IU per capsule. This kind of compounding error may occur mainly when dealing with very-low dose products; in such cases, the pure input is not weighed, it is just diluted."​

I didn't know how long to sit with uvb lamp and heat lamp. The paperwork that came with my uvb lamp said start at 30 seconds and work up, I was doing 6-7 minutes towards the end of it I believe but would be wary for sitting for a long time under it.
 

dreamcatcher

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@Amazoniac My D levels dropped from low 30s to low 20s during the month. I am starting to think I didn't use the tanning beds enough though. Ray has said tanning is indicative of raising D levels and I had no sort of tan at all, due to being weary with the tanning beds and going for the shortest sessions possible. I didn't feel any different that I noticed.
Vitamin D levels drop by half every two weeks @raypeatclips
 

burtlancast

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That's simplistic. Vitamin D is but only one small part of a complex system. It is useful, but it must not be overdone.

Another article in the same line as what I posted: Excess Vitamin D: Too Much Of A Good Thing? - Nature of Healing

There's nothing to overdo.

Vitamin D deficiency is pandemic.

Just like Iodine and magnesium deficiency are.

By the way, your article is a hatchet job:
In the same way autoimmune disease responds to corticosteroid (Prednisone) treatment, vitamin D can temporarily reduce symptoms of disease, but long-term use appears to dramatically increase the odds of disease relapse.

As i wrote, there are 4500 auto immune patients who for the past 15 years have lived totally normal lives after suffering from MS and other AI diseases., thanks to daily gigantic amounts of Vit D ( 40.000 to 250.000).

There are no relapses, and total responses are 95%.

It's a fact.
 
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burtlancast

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I wonder why my arthritic pain in my finger worsens a few hours after ingesting a vitamin D supplement? @burtlancast

You need Vitamin D to prevent osteoporosis and strengthen cartilage.

I would venture the Vitamin D starts working on repairing the joint, and thus it might become tender in the process?
 
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somuch4food

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As i wrote, there are 4500 auto immune patients who for the past 15 years have lived totally normal lives after suffering from MS and other AU diseases., thanks to daily gigantic amounts of Vit D ( 40.000 to 250.000).

I can see megadosing help in healing serious conditions. My caution is more about health maintaining dosage. If you need to take that much vitamin D for the rest of your life, you are not addressing the root cause.

BTW I know that article clearly has a paleo agenda behind it. I was just curious about the reactions I would get here.
 

burtlancast

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If you need to take that much vitamin D for the rest of your life, you are not addressing the root cause.
.

Lol.

The root cause of AI diseases is an inborn resistance to Vit D, with multiple possible genetic causes.

This resistance can be overcome though with very high doses of Vit D.

The patients are indefinitely in remission because the root cause is addressed.

You would know all this if you actually had taken the time to investigate this treatment, which you obviously didn't.
 

dreamcatcher

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You need Vitamin D to prevent osteoporosis and strengthen cartilage.

I would venture the Vitamin D starts working on repairing the joint, and thus it might become tender in the process?
That's very interesting, thank you. I might need to increase the dose then. You also mentioned that it's helpful in healing AI conditions. Perhaps it would also help with alopecia. (Ray Peat suggested me to apply it on my eyebrows since they became thinner.)
 

burtlancast

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You also mentioned that it's helpful in healing AI conditions. Perhaps it would also help with alopecia. (Ray Peat suggested me to apply it on my eyebrows since they became thinner.)

That's no small thing: AI diseases like MS had up to now no cure and medicine was totally powerless against it's ravages.

Now almost overnight one can have MS and lead a perfectly normal life thanks to high dose Vit D. Look for Dr Cicero Coimbra.

And many of these patients mention they also stopped getting yearly colds.

There's a silent revolution in medicine right now and nobody talks about it.

Type 1 diabetes, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, crohn, etc you name it have found a cure.
 

DaveFoster

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There's nothing to overdo.

Vitamin D deficiency is pandemic.

Just like Iodine and magnesium deficiency are.
What do you think of Dr. Peat's statement regarding the ten-fold surplus of iodine through iodized salt?
 

aguilaroja

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But it's impressive how much a person can tolerate:
Vitamin D intoxication: case report
"The patient took a compounded cholecalciferol supplement. Overdose was found by laboratory analysis of the capsules that contained 4,000,000 IU instead of 2,000 IU per capsule. This kind of compounding error may occur mainly when dealing with very-low dose products; in such cases, the pure input is not weighed, it is just diluted."

It is an interesting case report. Few situations in life tolerate being off by a factor of one thousand. The thousand fold unwitting dose increase leading to illness is in a similar range to the case of Gary Null, discussed in other threads by @Travis and others:
Vitamin D Really Toxic?
 

Tarmander

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Lol.

The root cause of AI diseases is an inborn resistance to Vit D, with multiple possible genetic causes.

This resistance can be overcome though with very high doses of Vit D.

The patients are indefinitely in remission because the root cause is addressed.

You would know all this if you actually had taken the time to investigate this treatment, which you obviously didn't.

Hey Burt. Do you have a list of the genetic abnormalities with regards to vitamin D resistance that you mentioned?
 
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