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Be Wary Of Vitamin D Supplementation

Discussion in 'D' started by somuch4food, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    I know the source might not be the best (seems to come from the Paleo/Primal community). Found it an interesting read nonetheless:
    Why I don’t take vitamin D supplements

    The main argument being that oversupplementation of any nutrient/vitamin can desensitize the body in its capacity to generate its own.

    I find the theory interesting because increasingly I see frequent eating and overeating as a stress for the body. Eating all day long requires the body to work at digesting food more frequently. The organs are kept busy defending against outside stressors (food) and trying to restore balance after the nutrient intake. There might not be much time left for the repair work to take place.
     
  2. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Ray Peat just told me that he takes 20,000IU daily from fall to spring, by applying it on his skin.
    He also said that if it doesn't cause sensitivities, it's even better to take 2,000IU daily internally.
     
  3. Sourdoughbanana

    Sourdoughbanana Member

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    Even better to take 20,000 topical than 2,000 internally you meant? Or else I’m confused.

    Topical makes a lot of sense. I’d do UVB tanning every so often, 1 SED every other week has been shown to maintain vitamin D levels in type 1/2 complexions iirc. I’m a tan type 3 so, idk what’s the cheapest option.

    Reducing frequency of supplementation could also help? I use a D3*K2 formula once per week. Fat soluble vitamins should be easily absorbed, although suppversity has an article saying K2 requires more fats.
     
  4. OP
    somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    What is 1 SED?

    I think that might be judicious. It is not always sunny outside. There might be other body processes that work better on cloudy days.
     
  5. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    No, exactly as I wrote it in my first comment.
     
  6. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    I believe Haidut posted an article some time ago from 2015 proving the official RDA for Vit D (around 800 UI/day) were underestimated by a factor of 10.

    Which means 8000 UI/day are required to maintain healthy Vit D levels .

    Aso, Dr Michael Holick proved Vit D deficiency is widespread worldwide , even in extremely sunny countries like Australia and India.

    So, in that context, the person wants to reduce supplementation ?
     
  7. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Wow thank you for this, @burtlancast
     
  8. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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  9. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Thank you!
     
  10. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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  11. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    burtlan, that has been questioned before. You have to consider that with 8000 IU supplemented daily it's rare to find people whose blood levels of 25(OH)D is below 35 ng/ml (information below collected from multiple studies), and the average being about 75 ng/ml, which is quite concerning.

    To avoid the feeling of being cheap for linking my posts, here are the direct links:
    - Letter to Veugelers, P.J. and Ekwaru, J.P., A Statistical Error in the Estimation of the Recommended Dietary Allowance for Vitamin D. Nutrients 2014, 6, 4472–4475; doi:10.3390/nu6104472
    - Quantifying the vitamin D economy | Nutrition Reviews | Oxford Academic
    - https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/update-on-vitamins-a-and-d/
     
  12. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Even if you discount 4000 IU or so (which is beyond the average obtained from diet + sun), and supplement only 4000 IU, you still have the majority of people with levels much higher than 35 ng/ml, apparently with more than half with levels above 50 ng/ml. A nicht, nicht.
     
  13. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Thank you. I would like to ask, how much vitamin D I should give my 6 year old daughter daily (from fall to spring)? @Amazoniac
     
  14. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Test her! Around 40 ng/ml is reasonable. I would not give more than 1000 IU without knowing that first. You can compensate with calcium to some extent, and make sure that magnesium, vit C and taurine are adequate (perhaps boron as well). That's what I would do.
     
  15. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Thank you @Amazoniac
    Yes, I give her 1,000IU currently every other day so I can do that daily instead. I also give her K2 and she eats according to Ray Peat's recommendations.
     
  16. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Yeah, the fat-soluble vitamins are important as well. You can also habituate her on 600 IU daily (spread) and only then increase the dose trying to pay attention to symptoms such as being more tired, appetite decreasing, poorer bowel movements, and so on. It's possible to ask an artist to make a marble statue of her, and every day you compare how much she's now resembling it.

    @raypeatclips - How was the lamp human sandwich experiment?
     
  17. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Why ?

    according to Michael Hollick, pg 201
     

    Attached Files:

  18. OP
    somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    Low Vitamin D levels are not necessarily an indication that you are deficient and that you need to supplement more.

    Your body might be using it more because of an underlying condition. I've read multiple times that too much vitamin D can suppress the immune system.

    A global approach is needed. All nutrients play their parts in a healthy body.

    I do think that most people need to supplement because of time spent indoors especially during colder months.
     
  19. Rosie

    Rosie Member

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    Thank you. She's always energetic but doesn't have a bowel movement daily.
     
  20. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Based on their regression analysis, but I find it better and easier to just ignore all elements other than the dots. They are trying to provide a generalized recommendation to raise most peoples' levels to sufficiency, the problem is that it throws those that have it already high, higher. This is what you get without the stuff:

    upload_2018-10-17_11-15-2.png

    Impressive Paint (!) skills, I know. And this is a different way of viewing it:

    upload_2018-10-17_11-15-35.png

    About 2000 IU seems the most reasonable dose (at least for a generalized suggestion). The higher you go beyond that, the more likely it's that less people will be near the adequate levels. It's not that someone can't benefit from more, but it deserves more care.
    Even if it those levels were completely safe (which are not), should you raise it that high? Because that's what tends to happen as you increase the doses. Magnesium is safe at 4 grams a day, but should you consume this much?

    You may laugh at that (I certainly just didded, but that's only because I'm constantly under the effects of oleamide, therefore the world is for me is a drowsy silliness), but you must have not read the 3rd link at all.

    Are you actually getting paid to post this by any chance? Perhaps you work for Zeus, which in turn works for Michael Holick, which in turn works for the vitamin D industry, which in turn is run by someone with a villain moustache that profits on conventional medical treatments, which Hugh happens to be involved, with finally both of them working for Mon and santo.

    Michael Holick might be out of this mafia since he recommends 1000 IU for children and 2000-3000 IU for adults, maybe it was out of fear of being exposed. Same thing for Zeus, he has diminished the dose of his supplement recently to 1000 IU.
     
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