BCAA + Phenylalanine + Tyrosine For Serotonin Depletion

[PUTFOT]

I hear BCAA + phenylalanine + tyrosine depletes serotonin and increases dopamine. Is there any other supplement needed? Is phenylalanine needed or can just tyrosine be used?

I hear mixed results. What are the possible side effects?

What BCAA supplement to use?

What phenylalanine and tyrosine supplement to use?

How to dose?

When to take?

 

[PUTFOT]

@haidut @DaveFoster

 

[Pointless]

I've tried this, but I rely on Cyproheptadine to lower serotonin.

BCAAs can cause drowsiness and lack of motivation. Tyrosine can cause headaches.

Amino acids are problematic. Ray Peat has pointed out that they have toxic impurities. I would not recommend this long term for that reason unless you get USP.

2-3x per day is good. Start with a low dose. The effectiveness might surprise you.

 

[PUTFOT]

I've tried this, but I rely on Cyproheptadine to lower serotonin.

BCAAs can cause drowsiness and lack of motivation. Tyrosine can cause headaches.

Amino acids are problematic. Ray Peat has pointed out that they have toxic impurities. I would not recommend this long term for that reason unless you get USP.

2-3x per day is good. Start with a low dose. The effectiveness might surprise you.

Did you combine BCAA with tyrosine and phenylalanine?

 

[Pointless]

Yes I tried that, but it didn't seem to inhibit the drowsiness very well. But I only experimented briefly with a highish dose. I think I was using 1.5 g BCAAs. And more recently I tried .5 g BCAAs by itself at night. It makes me sleep longer like 2 mg Cyproheptadine.

 

[PUTFOT]

Yes I tried that, but it didn't seem to inhibit the drowsiness very well. But I only experimented briefly with a highish dose. I think I was using 1.5 g BCAAs. And more recently I tried .5 g BCAAs by itself at night. It makes me sleep longer like 2 mg Cyproheptadine.

There's probably another factor in context since it works for some and not for others.

 

[milk_lover]

BCAA actually makes me depressed. I feel bad feelings in my heart, I don't know how to word this. Now, the only amino acids I take are glycine, taurine, and theanine (those are nonessential AA) and I get mostly positive effects from them.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Depression and an empty feeling inside is very common as a side effect.

 

[Quality]

BCAA + Tyrosine definatly made me feel better than I allready feel, bit euphoric.
Unfortunatly I cannot take tyrosine ( see my other thread regarding tyrosine and melanoma/moles ).
People should be carefull before taking tyrosine, no doubt about it that it can help alot of people, just warning against possible side effects.

 

[haidut]

@haidut @DaveFoster

Did you read the thread called "depleting serotonin with BCAA.." or something like that? It talks about doses for both BCAA and tyrosine. You can use either tyrosine or phenylalanine but for some reason it seems phenylalanine works better even though tyrosine is a more direct precursor to dopamine. The only other thing I would add is no more than 10mg vitamin B6 daily as it forces the conversion of the phenylalanine/tyrosine into dopamine because it is a cofactor of the aromatic amino acid decarboxylase enzyme.

 

[Quality]

Did you read the thread called "depleting serotonin with BCAA.." or something like that? It talks about doses for both BCAA and tyrosine. You can use either tyrosine or phenylalanine but for some reason it seems phenylalanine works better even though tyrosine is a more direct precursor to dopamine. The only other thing I would add is no more than 10mg vitamin B6 daily as it forces the conversion of the phenylalanine/tyrosine into dopamine because it is a cofactor of the aromatic amino acid decarboxylase enzyme.

This seems a very good idea, adding small amounts of vitamin b6/P5P (vitamin b6 is actually one of the only b-vitamins that can cause nerve damage in high doses) everytime people take bcaa+phenylalanine+tyrosine, forces pathways to speed up , basically phenylalanine->pea and l-dopa->dopamine gets speed up, and since serotonin is depleted cause of the bcaa's theres no need to worry much for 5htp->serotonin conversion.
@haidut
How much of an influence do you think vitamin b6 has on glutamate->gaba pathway, it seems to also be a cofactor in that.
Maybe adding a small amount of magnesium to the mix would also be a good idea ( about 20-30% of the RDI ) everytime people take bcaa+phenylalanine+tyrosine.

 

[Quality]

BCAA actually makes me depressed. I feel bad feelings in my heart, I don't know how to word this. Now, the only amino acids I take are glycine, taurine, and theanine (those are nonessential AA) and I get mostly positive effects from them.

It can pull your tyrosine levels down aswell, so less dopamine in the brain then aswell as serotonin.
So if you have low dopamine levels to start with taking BCAA in isolation might not be a good idea.

 

[haidut]

This seems a very good idea, adding small amounts of vitamin b6/P5P (vitamin b6 is actually one of the only b-vitamins that can cause nerve damage in high doses) everytime people take bcaa+phenylalanine+tyrosine, forces pathways to speed up , basically phenylalanine->pea and l-dopa->dopamine gets speed up, and since serotonin is depleted cause of the bcaa's theres no need to worry much for 5htp->serotonin conversion.
@haidut
How much of an influence do you think vitamin b6 has on glutamate->gaba pathway, it seems to also be a cofactor in that.
Maybe adding a small amount of magnesium to the mix would also be a good idea ( about 20-30% of the RDI ) everytime people take bcaa+phenylalanine+tyrosine.

P5P is known to increase GABA and reduce glutamate. There are studies on PubMed showing glutamate-dependent seizures/epilepsy getting cured by P5P due to massive increases in GABA after supplementation. It was in high doses but then again a toxic levels of glutamate may need such big doses. I think even a single dose of 10mg B6 daily is enough and no need to take with every dose of BCAA/phenyalanine/tyrosine combo.

 

[haidut]

It can pull your tyrosine levels down aswell, so less dopamine in the brain then aswell as serotonin.
So if you have low dopamine levels to start with taking BCAA in isolation might not be a good idea.

This. Not sure why people decided that taking BCAA on their own is the way to go. The thread on depleting serotonin with BCAA clearly describes that BCAA shares the amino acid transport with Tyr, Phe, Try, and Met. So, taking only BCAA will deplete the aromatic amino acids about equally. The study posted there cites a few other studies where giving only BCAA to athletes has neutral effects due to depletion of both dopamine and serotonin. So, by adding the tyrosine that study showed that dopamine lowering effects of BCAA is prevented. The study also showed that taking BCAA + tyrosine will normally NOT increase dopamine, it will simply lower serotonin and that may be good enough. Dopamine synthesis is dependent on light and P5P and that is why I mentioned adding P5P to maybe speed up dopamine synthesis. The human studies with L-dopa and B6 showed better dopamine response in humans, so it seems like P5P may very well do the job and so the person will end up with BOTH lower serotonin and higher dopamine.

 

[Quality]

I just checked up on multiple pages on net and most claim that the half-life of vitamin b6 is around 15-20days, so once a day seems fine.

 

[PUTFOT]

This. Not sure why people decided that taking BCAA on their own is the way to go. The thread on depleting serotonin with BCAA clearly describes that BCAA shares the amino acid transport with Tyr, Phe, Try, and Met. So, taking only BCAA will deplete the aromatic amino acids about equally. The study posted there cites a few other studies where giving only BCAA to athletes has neutral effects due to depletion of both dopamine and serotonin. So, by adding the tyrosine that study showed that dopamine lowering effects of BCAA is prevented. The study also showed that taking BCAA + tyrosine will normally NOT increase dopamine, it will simply lower serotonin and that may be good enough. Dopamine synthesis is dependent on light and P5P and that is why I mentioned adding P5P to maybe speed up dopamine synthesis. The human studies with L-dopa and B6 showed better dopamine response in humans, so it seems like P5P may very well do the job and so the person will end up with BOTH lower serotonin and higher dopamine.

Would an L-dopa source such as mucuna pruriens be a good idea with the BCAA+tyrosine combo?

 

[Quality]

Personally I would be against L-dopa.... its noticable in the shortterm for sure.
You do know its basically a medicine right? even though its in a "natural source" such a mucuna pruriens.
L-dopa should be combined with a decarboxylase inhibitor, egcg in green tea is one.

 

[PUTFOT]

Personally I would be against L-dopa.... its noticable in the shortterm for sure.
You do know its basically a medicine right? even though its in a "natural source" such a mucuna pruriens.
L-dopa should be combined with a decarboxylase inhibitor, egcg in green tea is one.

Why's that?

 

[Quality]

L-dopa is not exactly side effect free.
On top of that its not a sustainable long term solution.

 

[PUTFOT]

L-dopa is not exactly side effect free.
On top of that its not a sustainable long term solution.

I haven't noticed any side effects on or off it.