Bald Guy Regrows Hair With Birth Control Pills

[Estradiol]

I believe those symptoms may have more to do with cortisol than androgens.

Adrenals produces both of them and I firmly believe adrenal androgens is the root.

Don't mind my saying "androgenic"

It is so called androgenic and probably have nothing to do with androgens but adrenal gland.

 

[Kvothe]

Well, not according to what I’ve seen, progesterone is not elevated in either stressed men or women (in fact MPB and PCOS have deficiency of progesterone and elevated DHEA) and Ray himself has commented that the adrenals aren’t good at producing progesterone, hence why they make a lot of DHEA

This is from a study Danny has quoted himself, many times. It shows that the men with premature balding had elevated serum progesterone, though still within range (Reference range is 1.0-3.5). Do you have any studies showing different patterns? Men with liver disease (cirrhosis and such) often have drastically elevated progesterone, and since balding men are likely to have liver issues (as can be seen by their decreased SHBG), it is reasonable to assume that their progesterone will be elevated, too.

 

[Inaut]

This is from a study Danny has quoted himself, many times. It shows that the men with premature balding had elevated serum progesterone, though still within range (Reference range is 1.0-3.5). Do you have any studies showing different patterns? Men with liver disease (cirrhosis and such) often have drastically elevated progesterone, and since balding men are likely to have liver issues (as can be seen by their decreased SHBG), it is reasonable to assume that their progesterone will be elevated, too.

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I’m fairly sure (atleast in my case), my hair loss started around the same time i started to develop liver/gall bladder problems. This will obviously affect hormone production. I’m 31 and although my hair has thinned substantially, since my early 20s, I’m maintaining (if anything hair has got slightly thicker in the last year). No regrown yet but I think liver/lymph is a huge part to focus on. Thyroid and hormones fall in line. JMO though

 

[mrchibbs]

This is from a study Danny has quoted himself, many times. It shows that the men with premature balding had elevated serum progesterone, though still within range (Reference range is 1.0-3.5). Do you have any studies showing different patterns? Men with liver disease (cirrhosis and such) often have drastically elevated progesterone, and since balding men are likely to have liver issues (as can be seen by their decreased SHBG), it is reasonable to assume that their progesterone will be elevated, too.

View attachment 18148

Thanks, I have that study too. I must have other studies somewhere but I've accumulated so much that I'm starting to get confused.One thing I mentioned in another thread is that the hormonal profiles of men with alopecia differ wildly from study to study. For instance some studies find lower T and DHT, others higher. I think it's a shame that in most cases, they don't even test progesterone in men.

I do not put a great deal of stock into this study by Starka because I think (and correct me if I'm wrong), but the levels are not significantly different from controls. Also, the test is not for progesterone itself, but for one of its metabolites. If there is a slight elevation, it may be an adaptive thing, certainly not a sign of great endogenous production. (Cyproterone acetate increases serum progesterone). And also, Danny has cited some papers before explaining how serum levels of any hormone, including estrogen and progesterone, is totally unrelated to tissue levels of the hormones.

I may be wrong here, but I'm building my understanding on the evidence that men with MPB have similar profile as women with PCOS, and estrogenis known to drive adrenal production of androgens. The elevated DHEA, cortisol, and prolactin are mostly constant across studies. Thyroid function is linked to these issues, and we know it drives endogenous (gonadal, brain, tissues, skin) production of testosterone, progesterone, DHEA etc.

Liver is definitely involved in baldness though, no question with that. I just don't believe at this stage (again we can never be sure of anything), that men with baldness have higher progesterone, or testosterone, or DHT for that matter. I think they have "normal (according to standards) " serum levels and lower tissue action of these hormones because of the low thyroid. What is clearly elevated is estrogen, DHEA, cortisol, prolactin, parathyroid hormone etc.

 

[Kvothe]

I’m fairly sure (atleast in my case), my hair loss started around the same time i started to develop liver/gall bladder problems. This will obviously affect hormone production. I’m 31 and although my hair has thinned substantially, since my early 20s, I’m maintaining (if anything hair has got slightly thicker in the last year). No regrown yet but I think liver/lymph is a huge part to focus on. Thyroid and hormones fall in line. JMO though

Yeah, thyroid function. liver function and adrenal activity are all interconnected, and the research shows pretty clearly that the profile of balding men is one of reduced thyroid function, decreased liver function and excessive adrenal stimulation.

 

[Kvothe]

Thanks, I have that study too. I must have other studies somewhere but I've accumulated so much that I'm starting to get confused.
One thing I mentioned in another thread is that the hormonal profiles of men with alopecia differ wildly from study to study. For instance
some studies find lower T and DHT, others higher. I think it's a shame that in most cases, they don't even test progesterone in men.
I do not put a great deal of stock into this study by Starka because I think (and correct me if I'm wrong), but the levels are not significantly
different from controls. Also, the test is not for progesterone itself, but for one of its metabolites. (Cyproterone acetate increases serum
progesterone). And also, Danny has cited some papers before explaining how serum levels of any hormone, including estrogen and progesterone,
is totally unrelated to tissue levels of the hormones.

I may be wrong here, but I'm building my understanding on the evidence that men with MPB have similar profile as women with PCOS, and estrogen
is known to drive adrenal production of androgens. The elevated DHEA, cortisol, and prolactin are mostly constant across studies. Thyroid function
is linked to these issues, and we know it drives endogenous (gonadal, brain, tissues, skin) production of testosterone, progesterone, DHEA etc.

Liver is definitely involved in baldness though, no question with that. I just don't believe at this stage (again we can never be sure of anything), that men with baldness have higher progesterone, or testosterone, or DHT for that matter. I think they have "normal (according to standards) " serum levels and lower tissue action of these hormones because of the low thyroid. What is clearly elevated is estrogen, DHEA, cortisol, prolactin, parathyroid hormone etc.

The comparison to PCOS is a very good one. I remember that one paper specifically mentions that balding is the male equivalent for PCOS in women. Both are characterized by a significantly increased free androgen index, decreased SHBG, reduced insulin sensitivity, and overactive adrenal glands. In the first stage, the adrenals will produce a lot of DHEA and progesterone, which is good, but after a while adrenaline, cortisol, and prolactin will become dominant.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that progesterone is in any way involved in the pathologies leading to hair loss. It is simply a side effect, and in itself the progesterone is protective, or to put it another way, the whole situation would be much worse without the progesterone. I do not even doubt that supplemental progesterone might be helpful, I just wanted to add that according to what I have read progesterone is not reduced in balding men.

 

[mrchibbs]

The comparison to PCOS is a very good one. I remember that one paper specifically mentions that balding is the male equivalent for PCOS in women. Both are characterized by a significantly increased free androgen index, decreased SHBG, reduced insulin sensitivity, and overactive adrenal glands. In the first stage, the adrenals will produce a lot of DHEA and progesterone, which is good, but after a while adrenaline, cortisol, and prolactin will become dominant.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that progesterone is in any way involved in the pathologies leading to hair loss. It is simply a side effect, and in itself the progesterone is protective, or to put it another way, the whole situation would be much worse without the progesterone. I do not even doubt that supplemental progesterone might be helpful, I just wanted to add that according to what I have read progesterone is not reduced in balding men.

Totally understand what you're saying! Much like DHEA is elevated in stress, it is not part of the pathology of stress, it is an adaptive measure. Maybe I should qualify that I believe the tissue levels of progesterone (and testosterone for that matter) are deficient. Much like I understand now I can't claim outright (and I used to make that claim not long ago) that DHT and Testosterone are low in MPB, I also can't claim serum progesterone is lower. The results are inconsistent, and in reality, young-ish men who are balding are probably able to maintain normal levels of the "protective" steroids like you say by compensating with the adrenals. Although I'm still convinced we'd see a different picture regarding serum progesterone if it was actually tested in a few studies. The reason I'm so convinced is because we know in women serum progesterone is low in PCOS. I suspect it would be too in men with MPB, and @haidut has said a few things to that regard.

I think progesterone and testosterone were used topically with some benefits from the 60s to the 80s, so they definitely help, although I don't think anyone should expect reversal of pathology from simply using topicals without restoring thyroid function.

 

[Kvothe]

I think progesterone and testosterone were used topically with some benefits from the 60s to the 80s, so they definitely help, although I don't think anyone should expect reversal of pathology from simply using topicals without restoring thyroid function.

I think we can agree on that. T3, or increased thyroid function, directly reverses the hormonal pattern described. It increases testosterone, but decreases thee free androgen index by increasing SHBG. Thyroid also tends to lower estrogen, and T3 is the most potent anti-prolactin drug I know. There are many case reports in which improved thyroid function leads to things like spontaneous regrowth, repigmentation or loss of excessive body hair. Unfortunately, there seems to be little interest in systematic research in that direction.

 

[mrchibbs]

I think we can agree on that. T3, or increased thyroid function, directly reverses the hormonal pattern described. It increases testosterone, but decreases thee free androgen index by increasing SHBG. Thyroid also tends to lower estrogen, and T3 is the most potent anti-prolactin drug I know. There are many case reports in which improved thyroid function leads to things like spontaneous regrowth, repigmentation or loss of excessive body hair. Unfortunately, there seems to be little interest in systematic research in that direction.

Let's be honest. The vast majority of what Ray is saying, and the problems experienced by people on this forum would disappear if they fixed their thyroid function. It's so central to everything. I know sometimes people may feel like it's the canned answer to everything, but I've seen many instances of long-time RPF members posting about a variety of symptoms and when you ask their morning temperatures it's like 96.4F, or they've never bothered to read Broda Barnes' book.

 

[Kvothe]

Let's be honest. The vast majority of what Ray is saying, and the problems experienced by people on this forum would disappear if they fixed their thyroid function. It's so central to everything. I know sometimes people may feel like it's the canned answer to everything, but I've seen many instances of long-time RPF members posting about a variety of symptoms and when you ask their morning temperatures it's like 96.4F, or they've never bothered to read Broda Barnes' book.

Simple, yet complicated. Unfortunately, for most people fixing their thyroid issues is not as simple as it might appear from reading Barnes' book. Otherwise, we would all just take two grains of Haidut's godly Tyromax and be live happily ever after.

 

[mrchibbs]

Simple, yet complicated. Unfortunately, for most people fixing their thyroid issues is not as simple as it might appear from reading Barnes' book. Otherwise, we would all just take two grains of Haidut's godly Tyromax and be live happily ever after.

Well I think very few people follow the guidelines at the end of his book. And very few use a NDT product, they often try to use cynoplus/cynomel and it can't be taken the same way. Getting the temperatures/pulse right is the first step which (I suspect) most people never get through.

I think other factors help the conversion like oysters (zinc, copper, selenium), red light therapy directly on the thyroid, fixing vitamin D deficiency and emotional work etc.

 

[Attakai]

Let's be honest. The vast majority of what Ray is saying, and the problems experienced by people on this forum would disappear if they fixed their thyroid function. It's so central to everything. I know sometimes people may feel like it's the canned answer to everything, but I've seen many instances of long-time RPF members posting about a variety of symptoms and when you ask their morning temperatures it's like 96.4F, or they've never bothered to read Broda Barnes' book.

Haidut does everything right but is still bald as ****
I'd rather feel good and be mentally sharp than feel like crap but have hair. Though I'd love to solve it.
Baldness is pretty much my only issue left, everything else is much improved from my youth.

 

[mrchibbs]

Haidut does everything right but is still bald as ****
I'd rather feel good and be mentally sharp than feel like crap but have hair. Though I'd love to solve it.
Baldness is pretty much my only issue left, everything else is much improved from my youth.

If you’ve fixed thyroid, then a good massage technique + topical progest-e should fix the fibrosis in the scalp

 

[Goobz]

I personally don't find it very surprising that a guy who takes estrogen and progesterone analogues has regrown his hair. There are many reports of FtM transexuals who lose their hair taking male hormones, and MtF transexuals who regrow scalp hair on estradiol alone.

Though personally, even if I was rapidly losing my hair (ive lost some on the temples, but nothing much more yet), can't say I'd want to go to these extreme lengths to get it back.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

New data suggest that the principal androgen made by the human adrenal is 11-ketotestosterone (11-KT), a rarely studied steroid.

 

[Tarmander]

That is an amazing transformation. You can really see how his face changes rapidly, looking more feminine, when he starts the hormones

 

[Estradiol]

That is an amazing transformation. You can really see how his face changes rapidly, looking more feminine, when he starts the hormones

Ethinyl-estradiol is much potent than Estradiol.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

don't confuse cyproterone to cyproterone acetate, which is the 17a deacetylated analogue of CPA. I bring this up because cyproterone in comparison to CPA possesses exclusively anti-androgenic activity via its antagonist affinity for the androgen receptors, it doesn't inhibit steroidogenesis, rather actually potently upregulates it through the inhibition of AR-mediated negative feedback. CPA, on the other hand, is progestogenic, estrogenic and anti-androgenic.

 

[GorillaHead]

Adrenals cause peripheral androgen upregulation. This results in a positive feedback loop.

and I have seen many men who are balding severely with sky high progesterone.

 

[JKX]

The dichotomy of blood levels versus tissue levels...

Tissue concentrations are everything in the context of health. The blood is merely a transport system which will reflect the ebb and flow of sterols in and out of the tissues, in the context of stress at any given time.

You should ask why these people have elevated serum progesterone but remain in a state of tissue break-down... the T3 and sterols are being prevented from entering the cell...by what...PUFA most probably.

I'd bet some mitolipin with the progesterone would stop the progression of hair loss in most long enough to allow corrections to the metabolic processed gone awry.