Baking Soda Is Helping Me So Much - Looking To Clarify A Few Things

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artist

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That makes a lot of sense to me @DDK. The sodium just seems like the most powerful element in the equation and previous experience has shown me that salty foods make me feel much more stable. I don't know if sodium tablets will cause too many GI issues as well but it's worth trying. I know there are a lot of arguments against extreme sodium intake, although I believe Peat's stance is that high sodium is unlikely to be a big problem and more likely to be helpful. Determining if this is the most "upstream" solution I can find will be one of my goals. Maybe I just need a more intense level of thyroid support.
 

Cirion

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Very interesting man. I may have to give this a try.

I'm currently taking apple cider vinegar every day but haven't tried the baking soda yet. I will have to try your protocol for a day or two and see if it does anything for me.
 
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You are making a sodium acetate by mixing the acv and baking soda, it is rumored to be effective for sibo. I suspect that it may be an easy way to provide more sodium and acetate cellularly which could assist in various stages of metabolism.

I started mixing a tsp milk of magnesia with a 1/2 tsp rock salt in 6oz water recently and have experienced increased uplifted mood within minutes of drinking. It gets hot and off-gases for a few minutes. It is like taking a magnesium supplement but with immediate results and no lethargy... Why does it produce these effects? No idea, but I was already taking these 2 separate times in the day with little to note, the synergy is powerful.
 

Glassy

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The reason people take bicarb is generally either for the increase in the body’s bicarbonate ions (to buffer lactic acid production) or to neutralise stomach acid. If you’re wanting to get the bicarbonate into your body you probably want to take it when the volume of stomach acid is low (between meals). Bicarbonate (HCO3) reacts similarly to carbonate (CO3) in the presence of acid to form a salt (in this case sodium acetate), water and CO2. Judging by the quantities of vinegar and bicarb you are taking, it seems to me the benefits you are experiencing are coming from the either the sodium or the acetate ions (not the bicarbonate since it dissapears with the frothing in the glass). You are essentially supplementing with sodium acetate (there’s not much bicarb or ACV left).

Sodium is important (but their are easier ways to take sodium). How much salt to you normally eat?

Acetate is able to be converted in your body into bicarbonates so it assists you body if it is low on the bicarbonate “building blocks”. If you are already consuming a lot of vinegar then maybe your body is benefiting from the reduced acid load? I know ACV proponents say it’s alkalising for the body but it’s an acid and needs to be neutralised by you body at some point (I don’t buy the net alkalising effect of ACV but I don’t buy into the whole alkalise your body thing either).

I would personally try taking the bicarb on an empty stomach in water. Then an hour or so later take the ACV and water (right before your meal). I know what you are doing is having positive effects at the moment but what happens when they stop and why is it happening right now (what was missing or what is it counteracting)?

There are also other acetate salts you can try. Mixing magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia) and vinegar will form magnesium acetate and mixing calcium carbonate with it will form calcium acetate.
 

benaoao

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Doing this after my meals is stopping the acid reflux and the regurgitation. Works like magic everytime. Mixing the baking soda with the vinegar wont dilute stomach acid that much I dont think.

Just a heads up, I’d try to increase stomach acid before a meal, rather than fix the post meal reflux.

So taurine, enzymes, ACV with or without freshly squeezed lemon... will all increase stomach acid which may change your life
 
OP
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You are making a sodium acetate by mixing the acv and baking soda, it is rumored to be effective for sibo. I suspect that it may be an easy way to provide more sodium and acetate cellularly which could assist in various stages of metabolism.

I started mixing a tsp milk of magnesia with a 1/2 tsp rock salt in 6oz water recently and have experienced increased uplifted mood within minutes of drinking. It gets hot and off-gases for a few minutes. It is like taking a magnesium supplement but with immediate results and no lethargy... Why does it produce these effects? No idea, but I was already taking these 2 separate times in the day with little to note, the synergy is powerful.
Iiiiinteresting. If it's killing SIBO that would match my symptoms very well. I am very interested in trying the magnesium+salt water mixture next. Thank you!

The reason people take bicarb is generally either for the increase in the body’s bicarbonate ions (to buffer lactic acid production) or to neutralise stomach acid. If you’re wanting to get the bicarbonate into your body you probably want to take it when the volume of stomach acid is low (between meals). Bicarbonate (HCO3) reacts similarly to carbonate (CO3) in the presence of acid to form a salt (in this case sodium acetate), water and CO2. Judging by the quantities of vinegar and bicarb you are taking, it seems to me the benefits you are experiencing are coming from the either the sodium or the acetate ions (not the bicarbonate since it dissapears with the frothing in the glass). You are essentially supplementing with sodium acetate (there’s not much bicarb or ACV left).

Sodium is important (but their are easier ways to take sodium). How much salt to you normally eat?

Acetate is able to be converted in your body into bicarbonates so it assists you body if it is low on the bicarbonate “building blocks”. If you are already consuming a lot of vinegar then maybe your body is benefiting from the reduced acid load? I know ACV proponents say it’s alkalising for the body but it’s an acid and needs to be neutralised by you body at some point (I don’t buy the net alkalising effect of ACV but I don’t buy into the whole alkalise your body thing either).

I would personally try taking the bicarb on an empty stomach in water. Then an hour or so later take the ACV and water (right before your meal). I know what you are doing is having positive effects at the moment but what happens when they stop and why is it happening right now (what was missing or what is it counteracting)?

There are also other acetate salts you can try. Mixing magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia) and vinegar will form magnesium acetate and mixing calcium carbonate with it will form calcium acetate.
Seems like you and captain coconut are on the same page which is encouraging. The bicarbonate reacting away is what I had been wondering, since CO2 is emphasized so much when baking soda is recommended, but that's very good info that the acetate can be converted to bicarbonates. I will definitely try the plain baking soda in water next. I find table salt to be very relaxing and if I'm feeling extra bad, a cucumber salad with loads of salt and vinegar-y dressing is usually how I deal with it, and come to think of it I can't say the salt is any less important than the vinegar in that situation. I'll have to pick up the magnesium hydroxide for sure.

You're both very helpful, thank you!
 
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Let us know how it goes @artist - I've come to realize after a lot of experimenting with all the various magnesium supplements available that they all act a little differently. Milk of magnesia is underrated, mainly referred to for the laxative quality but imo it is highly effective for supplementing in smaller quantities. Like many old boring drug store staples it seems to have slipped under the radar. For whatever reason it has been the most effective for me for joint/muscle pain management (1 tsp twice a day doses). Other forms seem to work better for the gaba effects; you would think the magnesium oxide form would basically act the same but I haven't had the same success - I can take the hydroxide form and literally within an hour notice a 50% reduction in stiff/popping joints from costochondritis flare ups. Magnesium via Epsom, Citrate, Malate, Chloride, Threonate, Glycinate - all have done little for me in comparison - even when transdermal or pre dissolved in water.
 

tara

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Still, after about two weeks of using it, my urine was able to reach a pH of 8. I stopped there and then, not knowing what would happen if I increased the dosage. I still don't know the consequences of long term usage.

Carey Reams (RBTI) UpH range for healing was 6.2-6,8 with and ideal of 6.4, and Peat has suggested 24 hour UpH of 6.3-6.7 is probably good.

One potential consequence of excessive prolonged baking soda supplement (not sure if it always requires excessive calcium supplementation too to be a problem), is milk-alkali-syndrome. There are a couple of members here who got into serious trouble with it, and it took a while to recover. At least one (maybe more) involved hospital.

I'm not expert by any means, but personally, if it were me, I would not want my UpH to stay up at 8 for too long, and I'd take it as a possible warning to back off the baking soda, at least until I had better information to guide the decision.
 

tara

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You are making a sodium acetate by mixing the acv and baking soda, it is rumored to be effective for sibo.
My comment above about milk alkali syndrome applies to baking soda, not to sodium acetate or to other substances produced by fully reacting sodium bicarbonate with acids before drinking it.

The comment about Reams' and Peat's view on UpH is more general, not just about baking soda, but related to any factors affecting systemic acid-base balances.
 
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EIRE24

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That makes a lot of sense to me @DDK. The sodium just seems like the most powerful element in the equation and previous experience has shown me that salty foods make me feel much more stable. I don't know if sodium tablets will cause too many GI issues as well but it's worth trying. I know there are a lot of arguments against extreme sodium intake, although I believe Peat's stance is that high sodium is unlikely to be a big problem and more likely to be helpful. Determining if this is the most "upstream" solution I can find will be one of my goals. Maybe I just need a more intense level of thyroid support.
What times of the day do you take the mixture?
 

Xisca

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Doesn't Peat say the complete opposite?
No.
Talking about insulin has nothing to do with digestion!

Some people do have problems with hcl in form of betain and maybe also if the stomach lining is damaged.

Just read on line about hair analysis! Through mine they really spoke about me without knowing more! It is just a safe biopsia and its cheaper than an blood test! Would you call a blood test esoteric? Com'on!

Take aloe vera if you have irritated mucosas.

I have had success in stopping oesophagus burn at night by using vinegar alone or lemon juice.

Take bitter greens in the morning for natural acid stimulation.
 

YourUniverse

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Since haidut's post on baking soda, I've added it to all my orange juice daily. Sometimes I also add whey protein to that orange juice, and sip it during a work day, or chug it post workout. That post was about 1 week ago.

In that last 1 week, my temperatures have been sky high. I'm always boiling hot. I believe this to be high carbon dioxide, as an old member named vision of strength described high CO2 as creating a very warm body temperature, among other beneficial things that Im also experiencing.

Really good stuff.
 
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yerrag

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Carey Reams (RBTI) UpH range for healing was 6.2-6,8 with and ideal of 6.4, and Peat has suggested 24 hour UpH of 6.3-6.7 is probably good.

Do you have references as to how they arrive at these values? Acid-base balance is a subject with many differences of opinion. For example, an argument is made that urine has to be acidic, just because it is the body's way of removing acid. But what if food lifestyle changes have made it such that acid loads are minimized, and metabolism is optimized such that lactic acid is minimized? If there is little acid to excrete from the kidneys, and the urine becomes alkaline, would that be considered off range by the standards of Reams and Peat? This is why it's important to know the basis of their opinion with regard to urine pH.

What would be the urine pH of a person who doesn't eat too much meat, takes in fruits and vegetables that are high in alkalinic minerals calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium, and who consumes and metabolizes sugar very efficiently, has no vitamin and mineral deficiencies, sleeps well, has access to sunshine and clean air, is not exposed to heavy metal toxins as well as endotoxins, and is generally happy, and has low stress? Could he have "ideal" cellular pH of 6.8, blood and ECF pH of 7.4? And if so, what would his urine pH be?

Why does urine pH have to be more acidic (pH 6.2-6.8) than the ideal cellular pH ? Could it be that the basis for establishing such a low urine pH is because the studies were based on the typical American diet that is heavily meat-based and lacking in enough fruits and vegetables, much less carbohydrates? Could it be that with the propensity to create an acid load on the body with such diets, it would be just normal for the body to compensate by excreting all that acid in urine? And so, it would appear that such an acidic urine is normal only because so much acid has to be excreted.

One potential consequence of excessive prolonged baking soda supplement (not sure if it always requires excessive calcium supplementation too to be a problem), is milk-alkali-syndrome. There are a couple of members here who got into serious trouble with it, and it took a while to recover. At least one (maybe more) involved hospital.

From post 27 of Giraffe on Milk Alkali Syndrome (explicit) :

Although controversial (as previously discussed), preexistent renal insufficiency has been implicated in the pathogenesis of MAS. Medications that interfere with calcium excretion have also been considered risk factors. Thiazides decrease calcium excretion by inhibiting the thiazide-sensitive sodium chloride cotransporter and promote intravascular depletion and alkalemia.48-50 It is well recognized that alkalosis decreases calcium excretion by increasing its tubular reabsorption.51,52 The mechanism seems to be PTH independent.51 However, hypercalcemia impairs the kidneys' ability to excrete excess bicarbonate, possibly closing a vicious cycle that in susceptible individuals may lead to severe hypercalcemia and renal failure. The increased serum calcium level causes afferent arteriole constriction and reduction in the glomerular filtration rate (GFR).53,54 Also, hypercalcemia has a well-known natriuretic and diuretic effect, presumably by activating the calcium-sensing receptor, and leads to intravascular depletion.55,56 Aspiration of gastric content to control acidity in the original Sippy regimen can further exacerbate intravascular depletion, as does hypercalcemia-induced renal hyposthenuria.56,57 The resulting GFR reduction further limits excretion of bicarbonate and calcium. The increasing serum calcium level propagates the toxic effects of calcium on the kidneys. Long-term exposure to high calcium levels can result in nephrocalcinosis, tubular necrosis, and other structural changes.58 An alkalotic environment is known to facilitate calcium precipitation.9,59 Aging results in a decreased capacity to handle excess calcium, probably because of decreased renal function and down-regulation of the calcium-sensing receptor in chronic renal disease, and may predispose patients to developing hypercalcemia.40,60 Hypokalemia due to gastric suctioning and vomiting may have an additional renal deleterious effect. The combination of calcium and absorbable alkali seems to be necessary for the development of MAS. Absorbable alkali alone does not produce alkalosis. Even large administered amounts of sodium bicarbonate are readily excreted by the kidneys without persistent alkalemia. This has been well documented in humans and animals.61-63

Yet, there are cases of complications from baking soda therapy (Acid-Base - MJ Bookallil ):
Still, we have to understand the circumstances that led to complications in using baking soda. For one, the person has to be healthy enough. Organs such as liver and kidney are working well. The subject also should have a fairly good metabolism, which keeps him from suffering the ill effects of poor calcium balance. The subject should not be in all sorts of medications, whether that be through him biohacking with no methodology, or through endless prescriptions of pharma drugs by doctors.

Admittedly, the world is not going to be filled with people who can practice caution. There are many gotchas to deal with. It is always necessary to keep reminding people to be careful. People should really not touch baking soda by themselves, if they can help it. But they can't help it. There are no doctors out there who understand the use of baking soda, and so one is left with two choices: self-experiment with baking soda, or just stay away from baking soda.
 

vulture

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Since haidut's post on baking soda, I've added it to all my orange juice daily. Sometimes I also add whey protein to that orange juice, and sip it during a work day, or chug it post workout. That post was about 1 week ago.

In that last 1 week, my temperatures have been sky high. I'm always boiling hot. I believe this to be high carbon dioxide, as an old member named vision of strength described high CO2 as creating a very warm body temperature, among other beneficial things that Im also experiencing.

Really good stuff.
Dosage?
 

DDK

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Yet, there are cases of complications from baking soda therapy (Acid-Base - MJ Bookallil ):
Admittedly, the world is not going to be filled with people who can practice caution. There are many gotchas to deal with. It is always necessary to keep reminding people to be careful. People should really not touch baking soda by themselves, if they can help it. But they can't help it. There are no doctors out there who understand the use of baking soda, and so one is left with two choices: self-experiment with baking soda, or just stay away from baking soda.

Doesn't this only apply to using pure baking soda in isolation? The OP is mixing baking soda with vinegar.
 

yerrag

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Doesn't this only apply to using pure baking soda in isolation? The OP is mixing baking soda with vinegar.

Yes it does. I missed the part with mixing baking soda with vinegar, which really changes the baking soda into sodium acetate, partly or entirely of which I can't be certain of. Thanks.
 
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I should maybe mention I am a 28-year-old female in case that's relevant. My skin is still clearing up, on my face, shoulders, even places where I don't get clogged pores it's just getting really extra clear, and I have no eczema on my hands as I'm usually prone. I've never ever had anything work to help my skin like this. My hand joints also look healthy, a lot of times they look swollen.

@tara @yerrag Urinary pH seems like something good to be aware of. I have had a UTI before and it's not fun, and from my understanding acidic pH is part of how they're prevented. If I get any symptoms of anything like that I will be honest about that.

@EIRE24 I'm not really being that precise about when I dose. Definitely once in the morning before I eat. Then I just try to space the other two doses at least four or so hours apart.
 

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