Capt Nirvana

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baking soda + vitamin c + sodium ascorbate? i am not the best in chemistry lol. But i always wondered if the reacted substances have the same effect. What reaction occurs when baking soda hits stomach acid? But when first mixed with something sour like vitamin C or orange juice then it won"t work as an antacid, right? And you dont have to worry about diluting your stomach acid.
Citric acid is volatile, so I ate oranges for their alkaline ash residue as an antacid back in those faraway days when I owned a boob tube and was exposed to endless food commercials that generate stomach acid on an empty stomach.
 

tona

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Burtlancast, I agree with your statements
Everything is backwards.
Everything is upside-down.
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality.
 

yerrag

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sorry to quote myself ^^ but maybe someone could interprete this study? Stomach acid dilution is a problem but could be easylily avoided when ingested between meals but this sounds very alarming to me:

"These data demonstrate that NaHCO3 impairs arterial oxygenation and reduces systemic and myocardial oxygen consumption. The decrease in oxygen utilization is associated with anaerobic metabolism, enhanced glycolysis, and elevation of the blood lactate level, and may lead to transient myocardial ischemia in some patients."

They gave it intravenously to heart patients but couldnt that be happen in healthy people during oral route?
It seems to me that if the arterial oxygen pressure is decreased, it would mean that oxygen is being distributed to the tissues more effectively because of sodium bicarbonate administration. There is less oxygen in the arteries because it is being used up.

As for lactate increasing, wouldn't this merely indicate increased metabolism due to increased tissue oxygenation, with the metabolic pathway still being glycolytic and hence prone to lactate production?
 
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yerrag

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Thanks so much...am considering trying his therapy...book interesting
If you mix ascorbic acid with baking soda, you get sodium ascorbate. The byproducts are carbon dioxide aND water. So, it is beneficial to drink the mixture fresh dissolved in water with the fizz.

However, I don't have an upset stomach simply taking pure l-ascorbic acid dissolved in water, so I drink it without mixing baking soda. It is better to take ascorbic acid over the buffered ascorbates as there are two hydrogen ions available instead of one.

Here is how to make sodium ascorbate from ascorbic acid and baking soda, if need be:

Sodium Ascorbate Recipe - PureBulk Blog
 

Mauritio

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Soo are we not talking about too much salt increasing cortisol and its catabolic effect on muscle? It uses your own muscle for fuel ! That's pretty bad . I'd love to use it but if that is really true I wont longterm...
 
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Braveheart

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If you mix ascorbic acid with baking soda, you get sodium ascorbate. The byproducts are carbon dioxide aND water. So, it is beneficial to drink the mixture fresh dissolved in water with the fizz.

However, I don't have an upset stomach simply taking pure l-ascorbic acid dissolved in water, so I drink it without mixing baking soda. It is better to take ascorbic acid over the buffered ascorbates as there are two hydrogen ions available instead of one.

Here is how to make sodium ascorbate from ascorbic acid and baking soda, if need be:

Sodium Ascorbate Recipe - PureBulk Blog
Thanks for your replies...I have no problem w the straight ascorbic acid either.
 
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I've had ongoing trouble deciding between consuming straight bicarbonate vs pro-bicarbonate substances like vinegar or citrate.... It seems to not have the same effect exactly, but most of the studies I have seen make it out that they have very similar effects with balancing ph... It is far easier to take large quantities of baking soda than it is to take large quantities of vinegar or lemon juice. Perhaps there is an element of ph balancing - push and pull - like training a muscle - so taking in both at different times would be superior to exclusively supplementing just e.g. vinegar or baking soda... I feel that this low hanging fruit of human biological science has been greatly ignored - I guess because there really is no money in it, it is already a dirt cheap commodity, but you could also put me in most any field or forest and I could make my own vinegar or potassium carbonate with very little time or effort.
 
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dand

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Just what I was looking for, thanks. On a related note, I use baking soda to brush my teeth twice a day. I have been peating for 5 years and my teeth do not look good, they have clearly decayed especially around the gum line. I was hoping that keeping my thyroid healthy and taking in enough calcium would be enough to prevent tooth decay even if I was only brushing with baking soda. I have had a look at Peat's teeth as well as danny roddy's and they aren't great... I wonder how us peaty folks can keep our teeth sparkling white without using fluoride toothpaste?

My teeth look exceptionally good and I don't follow any non Peat regimens and am not all that great about brushing or flossing. I find that activated charcoal and fat soluble vitamins tends to help if I ever feel any gum irritation. Also, B Vitamins. It seems like you take a lot of supplements. I would suggest reducing them and increasing total caloric intake. It's hard to know what's going on when using so many supps at once.

Also, when I occasionally take psilocybin I notice a big teeth whitening effect.
 

dand

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Isn't the survival rate of prostate cancer something like 90% even without treatment?

"Survival rate" is relatively trivial when you consider things like loss of sexual function as side effects of common prostate cancer treatments.
 

dand

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My teeth look exceptionally good and I don't follow any non Peat regimens and am not all that great about brushing or flossing. I find that activated charcoal and fat soluble vitamins tends to help if I ever feel any gum irritation. Also, B Vitamins. It seems like you take a lot of supplements. I would suggest reducing them and increasing total caloric intake. It's hard to know what's going on when using so many supps at once.

Also, when I occasionally take psilocybin I notice a big teeth whitening effect. What are your physical activities like? Aren't you a weightlifteR?
 

Texon

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The etiology of rheumatoid arthritis (RA) as an inflammatory disease is well-established even in mainstream medicine. However, the current treatments are downright barbaric and involve the potent suppression of the immune system to the point that the patient is at a constant risk of opportunistic infections and cancer. The role of endotoxin/estrogen in RA has been consistently ignored for more than 50 years (as Peat said), and if you mention using diet to treat/control RA to a rheumatologist you will probably get laughed out of the room and/or referred to a psychiatrist.
Well, the study below shows that the joke may very well be on the rheumatologists. A low dose baking soda shifted the immune response away from inflammation and the effect persisted for days even after a single dose. This beneficial effect was confirmed in humans, using a dose of only 2g baking soda daily. As the study found, the benefits of baking soda were linked to signalling the spleen to avoid mounting an overly aggressive response, and this effect transfer over to RA symptoms as well. Given that a dietary ingredient controlled the immune/inflammatory reaction by the spleen, it makes me wonder if the spleen "overreacts" against other more "benign" events...say a meal with excess PUFA, and if this "overreaction" is also involved in other autoimmune symptom flares people report so often after eating specific food (e.g. dietary triggers). Either way, if baking soda can treat a disease that has eluded cure or safe induction of remission for more than a century then it speaks volumes about the competence of the whitecoats. Maybe I should send the study to the lobbying HQ of the American College of Rheumatology (ACR), which is less than 4 block from my office :):
Oh, and one more thing. According to the study, the same protective, anti-inflammatory effects of baking soda could apply to chronic kidney disease (CKD), and possibly all other inflammatory conditions since the anti-inflammatory response was seen everywhere and not just in specific organs.

Oral NaHCO3 Activates a Splenic Anti-Inflammatory Pathway: Evidence That Cholinergic Signals Are Transmitted via Mesothelial Cells
"...To determine whether oral NaHCO3 had a similar antiinflammatory action in humans as we found in rats, we evaluated blood samples at baseline and 1, 2, and 3 h following ingestion of a single dose (2 g) of NaHCO3 (n = 11) or equimolar NaCl (n = 6), each dissolved in 250 ml of bottled water. Pre- and posttreatment values of serum electrolytes are presented in Table III. There was a significant group by time interaction for changes in serum potassium (p = 0.029, h2 P = 0.279). Specifically, serum potassium decreased with NaHCO3 treatment (p = 0.008), but there was no change with NaCl treatment (p = 0.381). BMI and C-reactive protein levels were not significantly different at baseline between either group, indicating a similar baseline inflammatory state (Table IV). No other significant differences were observed between TXT groups at baseline in any variables tested (Table IV). Baseline flow cytometry values of all subjects, before ingesting NaHCO3 or NaCl in solution, are presented in Table IV. Prior to any treatment, the percentages of blood leukocytes that were TNFa+ neutrophils, M1 macrophages, or M2 macrophages were all significantly higher in the NaHCO3 TXT group when compared with baseline values obtained in the NaCl TXT group (Table IV). There was a significant TREATMENT 3 TIME effect on both M1 macrophages (p = 0.0004) and TNF-a–positive neutrophils (p = 0.0146), with the levels of these inflammatory cells in the plasma being reduced to a significantly greater degree following ingestion of NaHCO3 when compared with NaCl (Fig. 3). The greatest decreases in blood inflammatory cells were observed at 2 and 3 h following NaHCO3 ingestion. Similar to our observations in rats, oral NaHCO3 ingestion increased the percentage of blood leukocytes identified by flow cytometry as M2 macrophages (p = 0.00165) (Fig. 3). Decreases in inflammatory TNFa+ neutrophils and M1 macrophages in the NaHCO3 TXT group did not appear to be related to the differing baseline levels observed between TXT groups. When comparing individual responses between subjects of different groups, subjects with similar baseline levels of blood leukocytes responded differently if they received NaHCO3 compared with NaCl (Supplemental Fig. 1)...To our knowledge, these data are the first demonstration that orally ingested NaHCO3 can promote a powerful anti-inflammatory response in both rats and humans."

Drinking baking soda could be an inexpensive, safe way to combat autoimmune disease
"...A daily dose of baking soda may help reduce the destructive inflammation of autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, scientists say. They have some of the first evidence of how the cheap, over-the-counter antacid can encourage our spleen to promote instead an anti-inflammatory environment that could be therapeutic in the face of inflammatory disease, Medical College of Georgia scientists report in the Journal of Immunology. They have shown that when rats or healthy people drink a solution of baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate, it becomes a trigger for the stomach to make more acid to digest the next meal and for little-studied mesothelial cells sitting on the spleen to tell the fist-sized organ that there's no need to mount a protective immune response. "It's most likely a hamburger not a bacterial infection," is basically the message, says Dr. Paul O'Connor, renal physiologist in the MCG Department of Physiology at Augusta University and the study's corresponding author."

"..."We started thinking, how does baking soda slow progression of kidney disease?" O'Connor says. That's when the anti-inflammatory impact began to unfold as they saw reduced numbers of M1s and increased M2s in their kidney disease model after consuming the common compound. When they looked at a rat model without actual kidney damage, they saw the same response. So the basic scientists worked with the investigators at MCG's Georgia Prevention Institute to bring in healthy medical students who drank baking soda in a bottle of water and also had a similar response. "The shift from inflammatory to an anti-inflammatory profile is happening everywhere," O'Connor says. "We saw it in the kidneys, we saw it in the spleen, now we see it in the peripheral blood."

"...The shifting landscape, he says, is likely due to increased conversion of some of the proinflammatory cells to anti-inflammatory ones coupled with actual production of more anti-inflammatory macrophages. The scientists also saw a shift in other immune cell types, like more regulatory T cells, which generally drive down the immune response and help keep the immune system from attacking our own tissues. That anti-inflammatory shift was sustained for at least four hours in humans and three days in rats."
@burtlancast Haidut, this is amazing! I'm going to tell my friend with RA about it right away. Whether she will follow through is another issue. Also, I know baking soda is used on dialysis patients, and this sounds really similar to Ted's alkalizing formula at earthclinic.com which is a mixture of lemon juice, baking soda and water. Here is a short description from that web site:

4. LEMON BICARBONATE FORMULA
This simple formula will normalized many biological parameters, pH, ORP, phosphates, bicarbonates and antioxidants of vitamin C. A potential miracle water. One whole lemon freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken twice a day. To be taken once in the morning and once before bedtime on an empty stomach.

I haven't tried this yet but will at smaller amounts at least initially. Did the effects also persist in humans or just the rats?
 

charlie

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4. LEMON BICARBONATE FORMULA
This simple formula will normalized many biological parameters, pH, ORP, phosphates, bicarbonates and antioxidants of vitamin C. A potential miracle water. One whole lemon freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken twice a day. To be taken once in the morning and once before bedtime on an empty stomach.
Thank you for posting this. :hattip
 
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haidut

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@burtlancast Haidut, this is amazing! I'm going to tell my friend with RA about it right away. Whether she will follow through is another issue. Also, I know baking soda is used on dialysis patients, and this sounds really similar to Ted's alkalizing formula at earthclinic.com which is a mixture of lemon juice, baking soda and water. Here is a short description from that web site:

4. LEMON BICARBONATE FORMULA
This simple formula will normalized many biological parameters, pH, ORP, phosphates, bicarbonates and antioxidants of vitamin C. A potential miracle water. One whole lemon freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken twice a day. To be taken once in the morning and once before bedtime on an empty stomach.

I haven't tried this yet but will at smaller amounts at least initially. Did the effects also persist in humans or just the rats?

In humans they only measured effects up to 3h after ingesting baking soda. I guess since these were doctor volunteers it would have been too inconvenient to chase them down for blood tests days after administration.
 

Texon

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In humans they only measured effects up to 3h after ingesting baking soda. I guess since these were doctor volunteers it would have been too inconvenient to chase them down for blood tests days after administration.
:emoji_dart:
 
L

lollipop

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@burtlancast Haidut, this is amazing! I'm going to tell my friend with RA about it right away. Whether she will follow through is another issue. Also, I know baking soda is used on dialysis patients, and this sounds really similar to Ted's alkalizing formula at earthclinic.com which is a mixture of lemon juice, baking soda and water. Here is a short description from that web site:

4. LEMON BICARBONATE FORMULA
This simple formula will normalized many biological parameters, pH, ORP, phosphates, bicarbonates and antioxidants of vitamin C. A potential miracle water. One whole lemon freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken twice a day. To be taken once in the morning and once before bedtime on an empty stomach.

I haven't tried this yet but will at smaller amounts at least initially. Did the effects also persist in humans or just the rats?
@artist did you see this post?
 
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I’d like to know if there is something novel about the baking soda making it superior for RA compared with consuming other alkalizing things: e.g. magnesium or potassium or citrate.
 

yerrag

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I’d like to know if there is something novel about the baking soda making it superior for RA compared with consuming other alkalizing things: e.g. magnesium or potassium or citrate.
My guess is that baking soda is so easy to take because both the sodium cation and the bicarbonate anion both alkalinize. They're very effective in helping increase pH, and the increased pH must keep uric acid from crystallizing in the joints. Magnesium and potassium can come with inorganic acid anions that acidify, and these anions may actually cause pH to decrease, and not ease the arthritic condition. An example is magnesium chloride and potassium chloride, where the chloride could turn into hydrochloric acid, which is a strong acid. However, magnesium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate may be as effective as baking soda. They're just not as common and as affordable.
 

sladerunner69

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My teeth look exceptionally good and I don't follow any non Peat regimens and am not all that great about brushing or flossing. I find that activated charcoal and fat soluble vitamins tends to help if I ever feel any gum irritation. Also, B Vitamins. It seems like you take a lot of supplements. I would suggest reducing them and increasing total caloric intake. It's hard to know what's going on when using so many supps at once.

Also, when I occasionally take psilocybin I notice a big teeth whitening effect.

Well thanks for the advice! >>>Magic Mushrooms= great dental regimen<<<
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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