Baking Soda Is A Potent Anti-inflammatory, May Treat Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)

[yerrag]

Ray was speeking specifically about calcium supplementation with calcium citrate. Here is a bit more of the conversation:

RP: Yeah. There’s been a lot of publicity in the last few months about calcium supplements not being very helpful, and the most popular form of calcium supplement medically has been either calcium gluconate or calcium…I guess gluconate is probably the most popular…

HD: Or citrate.

RP: Citrate, yeah. Citric acid itself causes you to lose calcium in your urine. Lactate is another popular supplement. All of those have their anti-calcification effects, causing you to lose calcium or misplace it.

HD: And here they advertise that calcium citrate is the only observable form for menopausal women, and you’re saying that it actually inhibits some of the absorption of the calcium?

RP: It activates the loss of calcium in urine, where carbonate…it isn’t quite as soluble if you don’t have a lot of acid, but eventually, all the way down to your intestine, it has the chance to absorb, so it’s a very effective, but safe supplement, because the carbonic acid…the carbon dioxide is the form that stimulates bone formation rather than breaking down the bone.

HD: And a really easy way to get an adequate level if you don’t eat dairy, or drink milk, or eat cheese is to do eggshell powder for calcium carbonate. Like where a quart of milk has about 1000mg of calcium, am I correct, Dr. Peat?

RP: Yeah, 1000 or 1200.

Well, I was just wondering if citric acid would just as well cause not only loss of calcium in urine, but magnesium and potassium and sodium as well.

Regardless, I have become very negative on citrus fruits because of their citric acid content. But at least with citrus fruits, potassium is abundant and that makes up for the citric acid content's effects. What is even worse is straight citric acid.

If I were to avoid citrus fruits - and replace them with non-citrus fruits - would that be a good thing? What am I losing?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Well, I was just wondering if citric acid would just as well cause not only loss of calcium in urine, but magnesium and potassium and sodium as well.

Regardless, I have become very negative on citrus fruits because of their citric acid content. But at least with citrus fruits, potassium is abundant and that makes up for the citric acid content's effects. What is even worse is straight citric acid.

If I were to avoid citrus fruits - and replace them with non-citrus fruits - would that be a good thing? What am I losing?

Dr. Peat is well aware of this but there are so many benefits of citrus fruits. Naringenin and naringin and lots of potassium and sugar and probably lots of other things including some calcium and magnesium. I doubt incidental citric acid is a problem here.

 

[yerrag]

Dr. Peat is well aware of this but there are so many benefits of citrus fruits. Naringenin and naringin and lots of potassium and sugar and probably lots of other things including some calcium and magnesium. I doubt incidental citric acid is a problem here.

You make. good point with naringenin and naringin, but regular consumption of citrus fruits don't include the peels though. Other fruits contain the same sugar and potassium, as well as a smattering of calcium and magnesium. Citrus fruits contain some ascorbic, not much, but a heavy load of citric acid.

It boggles my mind that Peat is negative on citric acid but promotes OK.

 

[ecstatichamster]

You make. good point with naringenin and naringin, but regular consumption of citrus fruits don't include the peels though. Other fruits contain the same sugar and potassium, as well as a smattering of calcium and magnesium. Citrus fruits contain some ascorbic, not much, but a heavy load of citric acid.

It boggles my mind that Peat is negative on citric acid but promotes OK.

Peat is against citric acid supplementation. But naturally occurring in OJ is probably a different matter.

Supplementation of calcium citrate, bad.

Taking citric acid that is produced from fungus, bad.

But consuming orange juice, good. And by the way, OJ has those naringenin and naringin in the juice. It's not just in the peels as I understand it.

 

[Birdie]

Your oranges are probably too acid, some don't fizz at all.

HPLC Organic Acid Analysis in Different Citrus Juices under Reversed Phase Conditions

View attachment 11181​

- Changes in Organic Acids and Sugars during Early Stages of Development of Acidic and Acidless Citrus Fruit

"Most of the studies on organic acid and sugar content were performed during fruit maturation of species such as orange, grapefruit, mandarin, and lemon (4-6). They showed that acidity, mainly due to citric acid, decreases during maturation of orange, grapefruit, and mandarin, whereas it remained constant in lemon. The total sugars increase throughout whatever the species. In contrast, only a small amount data were obtained before maturation. Acidity increases and becomes constant during the second stage of development, defined by Bain (7), while the total sugars increase (8-9). It is worth noting that there is very little information available on individual organic acids and sugars and their respective pattern of accumulation during fruit development (10-13). However, all citrus fruit does not follow this common behavior. In fact, some acidless varieties resulting from spontaneous mutations are characterized by a very low acidity and a lack of citric acid (14-17)."

Spoiler: Organic acids changes during development

View attachment 11182

View attachment 11183

"Titratable acidity of citrus juice is known to be due largely to citric acid (2). Citric acid is synthesized in the mitochondria of juice cells via the Krebs cycle and is stored in the vacuole (1). In acidic lemon, lime, and orange, citric acid accounted for 79, 71, and 45% of the seven detected organic acids, respectively. These percentages were lower than those reported in the literature, which were estimated on a limited number of organic acids (citric, malic, and quinic acids) (20, 21)."

"When plotting fructose versus citric acid concentrations, we have shown that the most acidic fruit (G1) were characterized by the highest citric acid concentration and the lowest fructose concentration (Figure 4)."

View attachment 11185​

This bragging part was a bit unnecessary, no need to show off.
Here in Netherlands we already assume everyone has a degree in science, it's mandatory.

What, what! Our orange juice doesn't fizz until we add the baking soda. It's the resulting CO2 giving the fizz.
That's why we drink it right away to get the CO2.

 

[yerrag]

Peat is against citric acid supplementation. But naturally occurring in OJ is probably a different matter.

Supplementation of calcium citrate, bad.

Taking citric acid that is produced from fungus, bad.

But consuming orange juice, good. And by the way, OJ has those naringenin and naringin in the juice. It's not just in the peels as I understand it.

Probably safe with sweet orange, especially the acid-less ones. But other orange varieties that are in the sour side, probably not.

And then it depends on the climate where the orange is grown. The Satsuma orange grown in the Philippines is just too sour, a giveaway that it's high in acid. But Satsuma oranges from Florida may be sweet, as Florida climate is not as warm as in the Philippines

And the best would be tree-ripened sweet oranges. They're even less acidic. This makes a case for having sweet oranges grown in the backyard.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Probably safe with sweet orange, especially the acid-less ones. But other orange varieties that are in the sour side, probably not.

And then it depends on the climate where the orange is grown. The Satsuma orange grown in the Philippines is just too sour, a giveaway that it's high in acid. But Satsuma oranges from Florida may be sweet, as Florida climate is not as warm as in the Philippines

And the best would be tree-ripened sweet oranges. They're even less acidic. This makes a case for having sweet oranges grown in the backyard.

yah. I buy Whole Foods fresh squeezed in-the-store OJ and each bottle is different. Occasionally I throw the juice away if it's really sour, but that's rare. Sometimes it's amazing, sometimes it's pretty good.

If you throw a pinch of baking soda into a glass of OJ you can tell how sour it is without a pH meter.

The kind I drink doesn't foam at all. When I can't get good OJ then it's much more problematic. I think I will just fresh squeeze it myself from now on if I can't get good OJ, as the mass produced stuff in the dairy cooler is usually not great and tends to be too sour.

 

[kyle]

I think the study says the baking soda triggered more acid production afterwards, as a compensating mechanism. So, this may explain why baking soda and older antiacitd with calcium bicarbonate had the best long term effects on digestion compared to H2 antagonist and PPI drugs. User @aguilaroja mentioned this a few times.

Is it compensatory or is it because bicarbonate is needed to keep the mucousal lining functional?

Bicarbonate is also in saliva.

If metabolism is good kidneys can regulate electrolytic balance and bicarbonate but when it is compromised, digestion is impaired so you get indigestion.

It's like a vicious cycle where body is more catabolic which inhibits appetite and since your mucousal lining is impaired you have difficulty eating because mucousal lining is poor so it can't produce acid to digest properly.

 

[kyle]

I don't think baking soda's effect is mechanically lowering acid (well it does)

Downstream it is part of buffering in mucousal lining so stomach can create more digestive acids.

It seems like if saliva has bicarbonate too it must have some kind of immediate role in aiding digestion as it goes into the stomach.

Some people saying not to take it before eating because they think it will neutralize stomach acid. Maybe you should sip it as you eat.

The Italian s for example drink soda water with a their meals. (Funnily enough you can't even order regular water at a restaurant)

 

[kyle]

Someone more versed in chemistry might be able to explain the carbonic acid/bicarbonate/sodium bicarbonate relationship better.

I just know it's more complicated than it changing stomach pH.

 

[kyle]

Carbonic acid formed when sodium bicarbonate is in water.

Carbonic anhydrase plays a role in allowing gastric acid to form in the stomach. It turns co2 into carbonic acid.

If co2 concentration is low in the tissue it won't form carbonic acid. Carbonic acid can be turned into bicarbonate.

Bicarbonate and carbonic acid seem to have major function in allowing gastric acid form.

Dinking dissolved baking soda with food should have major improvements on digestion.

 

[LucH]

Someone more versed in chemistry might be able to explain the carbonic acid/bicarbonate/sodium bicarbonate relationship better.

I just know it's more complicated than it changing stomach pH.

NaHCO3 can promote a powerful anti-inflammatory response by shaping macrophage differentiation or by modulating various macrophage functions to restore health.

In humans (and other higher animals), macrophage M1 gives essentially an inhibiting response and M2 give a heal-type response.

See details on this link (in French) “Bicarbonate et inflammation – Mise au point” (Tentative d’explication).

http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1325-bicarbonate-et-inflammation-mise-au-point#14650

Extract (translated):
The effect of bicarbonate is due to (re)-polarization of M1 / M2 macrophages and to the increase of FOXP3 + CD4 + regulatory T cells (Tregs). These T cells regulate the immune response (hence the name "T regulatory cells" in English).
NB: See & "Tentative d’explication"
Vocabulaire : Polarisation des cellules
1. La polarisation des cellules cardiaques

 

[Simba1992]

I don't think baking soda's effect is mechanically lowering acid (well it does)

Downstream it is part of buffering in mucousal lining so stomach can create more digestive acids.

It seems like if saliva has bicarbonate too it must have some kind of immediate role in aiding digestion as it goes into the stomach.

Some people saying not to take it before eating because they think it will neutralize stomach acid. Maybe you should sip it as you eat.

The Italian s for example drink soda water with a their meals. (Funnily enough you can't even order regular water at a restaurant)

Have been wondering about the effect of bicarbonate in alkaselzer. Usually take my daily aspirin this way?

 

[yerrag]

If you throw a pinch of baking soda into a glass of OJ you can tell how sour it is without a pH meter.

This makes sense. If the baking soda doesn't fizz, it means there's not much citric acid to react with to produce sodium citrate.

 

[rawmeat]

Also, when I occasionally take psilocybin I notice a big teeth whitening effect.

Interesting. I notice this with alcohol and coffee surprisingly. It's like a near instant effect.

 

[Aymen]

how long does it take to dissolve baking soda in water?

 

[ddjd]

It should, as it was the bicarbonate that provided the benefit. However, I am not sure using that much potassium bicarbonate would be safe as sudden rise in potassium levels can be very dangerous for the heart.

how much potassium in one go would be dangerous for the heart?

 

[ddjd]

Actually, salt intake up until 1950s used to be 15g+ daily on average, which is about 2-3 times more than current daily intake. Extra salt was given as rations to soldiers during WWI and WWII and inadequate salt intake was considered a primary cause of disease. Sodium is not nearly as dangerous as potassium in higher doses because the body can adjust water balance to handle the excess sodium. Not so much with potassium, and sodium does not have the muscle paralyzing effects potassium has in higher doses.

can potassium cause permanent damage to the heart then? or is it reversible?

 

[Matt C]

So did anyone determine if baking soda increases lactate? I saw someone post it earlier but no follow up comments. I take a lil bi carb before workouts and would hate to think that i'm increasing my lactate by the intense workout AND bi carb.