Bad Doctor Experience, Give Up On Doctors? Not Sure What To Do (not Clickbait)

[Dan W]

So you're saying that all of those on your page just target those two genies (plural of genus lol?)?

I believe so (except for the crazy Russian suppliers I mention). I think the companies don't want to list them explicitly (some kind of legal reason?), but there were enough clues to make me think they're all based around just 2 phage blends.

 

[Sucrates]

I had an appointment with a gastro years ago, for ongoing “IBS”, similar nonsense. I was examined first by the specialist, then by a trainee, then the trainee consulted with specialist and returned to recommend celiac blood screen and endoscopy. Blood screen isn’t a problem, though pointless ad I hadn’t eaten gluten in years.
I asked about the purpose of the endoscopy, as I had read many reports of people who felt it made their conditions much worse. The trainee didn’t have a reason, eventually got the specialist as I persisted trying to get sense, he didn’t have a reason either, closest he could muster is that it would identify the pattern of inflammation, though on questioning he said no result from the endoscopy would change treatment, but I should do it anyway.
The vast majority of my experiences with medical professionals seem like gaslighting. A naturopath was the worst. I knew a couple of people who got much worse and died within a week of colonoscopy.

 

[Kyle M]

II asked about the purpose of the endoscopy, as I had read many reports of people who felt it made their conditions much worse. The trainee didn’t have a reason, eventually got the specialist as I persisted trying to get sense, he didn’t have a reason either, closest he could muster is that it would identify the pattern of inflammation, though on questioning he said no result from the endoscopy would change treatment, but I should do it anyway.

That's exactly what I was trying to ask. What is the information you can get from an endoscopy that you can't get any other way, and how will that information affect the treatment options you offer? It's ******* amazing that they don't feel the need to be able to answer those questions, and in fact they couldn't. I'm not even sure they understood the question.

 

[Dan W]

It's strange how having a "standard procedure" can override actually thinking about the problem. A loved one was given extensive "denervation" surgeries for back pain. I don't think any of the medical professionals (who deal with back issues full-time) thought to ask, "hey, have you ever seen a sports masseuse or PT?"

 

[Peatful]

/?
I'll look at that one. Your symptoms were basic SIBO stuff, bloating from carbs, stuff like that?

I had mucous in my stool; severe constipation from bowel inflammation; food sensitivities... Even Peaty foods were giving me mouth sores.
I went low FODMAP, which isn't far from "Peaty" and took the phages.
Good results.
Went ape ***t though...so happy to eat and poop again...and had to reel it back in.

The reason I think phages may help your SIBO is simply because I saw Hadiut mention this in post he was commenting in, but didn't post himself. I looked for it with no avail. He mentioned phages were Ray "supported" and that he knew that it remediated other SIBOesque symptoms.
Lmk if you need clarity.

 

[Nokoni]

It's strange how having a "standard procedure" can override actually thinking about the problem. A loved one was given extensive "denervation" surgeries for back pain. I don't think any of the medical professionals (who deal with back issues full-time) thought to ask, "hey, have you ever seen a sports masseuse or PT?"

I'm well pleased to have begun massage therapy. Early results are surprisingly good, maybe even suspiciously so. Searched PubMed as a sanity check and found more than I thought I might. This, for example:
Real-World Massage Therapy Produces Meaningful Effectiveness Signal for Primary Care Patients with Chronic Low Back Pain: Results of a Repeated Mea... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[NathanK]

I had an appointment with a gastro years ago, for ongoing “IBS”, similar nonsense. I was examined first by the specialist, then by a trainee, then the trainee consulted with specialist and returned to recommend celiac blood screen and endoscopy. Blood screen isn’t a problem, though pointless ad I hadn’t eaten gluten in years.
I asked about the purpose of the endoscopy, as I had read many reports of people who felt it made their conditions much worse. The trainee didn’t have a reason, eventually got the specialist as I persisted trying to get sense, he didn’t have a reason either, closest he could muster is that it would identify the pattern of inflammation, though on questioning he said no result from the endoscopy would change treatment, but I should do it anyway.

@Kyle M
Isn't the purpose of an endoscopy or colonoscopy to look for possible cancerous nodules or cysts that are common in people with bowel issues? I don't understand how sticking a camera inside you would make symptoms worse

 

[achillea]

04.25.16_daniels_jennifer_two at minute 3:45 her answer to SIBO

 

[mont109]

So in my ongoing SIBO thing I got a new primary care physician where I live now, who recommended me to a gastroenterologist (as I knew she would). Now, my pcp is nice and listens to me, of course she doesn't know anything all that interesting just standard doctor training, but she isn't pushy.

This gastro, that was another story. Indian guy, bossy, doesn't even realize he is embarrassing himself telling me to "drink more water" and "eat fiber." He didn't bother to figure out if I know anything about any of this, he probably wouldn't care any way. Get this, he gives me a prescription for an ultra sound, which I probably will do, an endoscopy, which I probably won't do, and Zantac. What kind of a retard doesn't know that SIBO symptoms are, if they have anything to do with stomach acid, likely caused by slowed opening of the pyloric sphincter and subsequent down stream intestinal movement from LOW STOMACH ACID? I don't think I have that particular problem, but I sure as hell have no reason to believe I have too much stomach acid.

Any way, over the years of getting zero help with this issue from doctors (or from alternative stuff unfortunately) I keep toying with the idea of dosing myself with darknet purchased antibiotics rather than wasting my time with doctors. The prescription pad they have is alluring, but they guard it jealously. In particular the antibiotics usually prescribed for SIBO are expensive for insurance companies and they don't like to do it without first doing all of their procedures (like endoscopy) that they can make money on.

At what point is the medical cartel so bad that, even though I have decent insurance through work, it's not worth it to use it anymore? They have powerful tools and already took my money through premiums, but they never do anything I want them too any way. It's something I'm having trouble getting past.

Why don't you ask for a Hydrogen breath test?
How to Interpret Hydrogen Breath Tests

 

[Kyle M]

@Kyle M
Isn't the purpose of an endoscopy or colonoscopy to look for possible cancerous nodules or cysts that are common in people with bowel issues? I don't understand how sticking a camera inside you would make symptoms worse

Septic technique, and damage to enterocyte wall. I don't know how common either of those are.

 

[Kyle M]

Why don't you ask for a Hydrogen breath test?
How to Interpret Hydrogen Breath Tests

I actually took a glucose breath test and got inconclusive results. My doctor agreed to prescribe me a lactulose test, but no testing place around here does one. I could buy it online maybe, but then I'm just buying another $150 test and need another prescription written as one cannot buy lactulose without a doctor's note.

 

[Lyn]

I wonder what would happen if for a time you ate as close to zero fiber -- both soluble and insoluble -- as possible. And eliminated all but the most essential supplements and neutraceuticals. Give your system a chance to "reset" itself?

 

[puella]

Completely feel your pain & frustration, Kyle. I reluctantly joined an integrative DPC (direct primary care) group because they do not take insurance & we have to pay a monthly membership fee ($59). However, they're MDs & PA-Cs with a much more holistic approach. They do not up-charge on lab work so there isn't an incentive to order any unnecessary tests. They post all of their lab fees on their website as well. It's not perfect but it is by far the best experience I have ever had as far as doctors go.

I actually just see one of the PA-Cs. I went in with really random symptoms & she was honest with me- told me I fit the profile of someone with MS. BUT instead of hammering me into that hole, she had me keep a food/health journal for two weeks. When things didn't add up as expected, she went against her first notion & actually figured out what was going on. She called me when she figured it out (even though she was on vacation!). She came by the hospital to check on me when I had surgery. I can just message her if I need a prescription refill & she messages me about lab results if there isn't anything to go over (no dragging me into the office just to collect a fee!). Speaking of prescriptions, I had been seeing one of the "top thyroid" doctors in the country & started feeling incredibly anxious after taking T3. I told him this & asked if he could split the dosage up and he flatly he told me no. You can guess how that request went with my PA-C: "sure, no problem".

So yeah, just wanted to throw some hope out there . I know most of us want to figure things out on our own but it's nice to have some back up & guidance from time to time.

p.s. I found my doctor's office through Liberty Health Share (my husband is self employed so we use a health share as an alternative to insurance). I don't believe everyone on their provider list is integrative but it's a place to start if you're interested: Liberty HealthShare

 

[Djukami]

Well, you're lucky to not tell you to do a x-ray right way.
The very few times I went to a MD they immediately said to me to do a X-Ray. The worst thing is that when you are sick, there's no way you can argue with them (or even with your family/acquaintances). After all, they want to help you, which I understand...
I remember having gut pain and the MD never thought about asking what have I eaten... immediately X-ray which looked at it only for 2 secs and then he says: "you have too much gases. Take microlax and lactulose."
Over the years I started to get really disappointed over MDs and now I feel like I can't trust them anymore... that bossy look, like they are the kings of the world. The only thing that I am helpless is that if I have a bad physical reaction that I don't know how to counter act it, I have to go to the ER anyway. The good thing is that they are pretty good to solve things like a broken leg. Now chronic issues their answer is "It's all in your head." , *prescribes Victan*

 

[Barliman]

Your doctor has his hands tied behind his back; you can show him evidence until the cows come home; if the medical orthodoxy doesn't allow a treatment, he won't prescribe it, because he's risking his medical licence.

So, use orthodox medicine for the tests and alternative medicine for the cure.

Learn to make the best of both worlds.

I think that is overstating it to some extent. More often it is not a matter of a particular treatment being not allowed, though some things like Lyme produce such an abnormal practice profile that it will attract negative attention.

With a case like SIBO-- there are a couple of issues. Firstly the condition is not all that well known. That will improve as interests in all forms of dysbiosis deepens.

I would suggest (and I do work as a doctor) that the bigger problem is that so far the workup and treatment regime for SIBO are not clear cut and well established. That means that we are all somewhat in the dark, and there is difficulty in knowing the best way to go, and even more difficulty in sorting out what information is reputable.. The end result of all this is that it leaves us all at least a little confused. The other side of the problem is that the medicolegal system judges doctors very harshly, and if a doctor is practicing in an area that is not well established and mainstream that creates a massive medicolegal risk.

It is a stupid system-- but its failings can only partially be blamed on pharma corruption.

 

[lollipop]

I think that is overstating it to some extent. More often it is not a matter of a particular treatment being not allowed, though some things like Lyme produce such an abnormal practice profile that it will attract negative attention.

With a case like SIBO-- there are a couple of issues. Firstly the condition is not all that well known. That will improve as interests in all forms of dysbiosis deepens.

I would suggest (and I do work as a doctor) that the bigger problem is that so far the workup and treatment regime for SIBO are not clear cut and well established. That means that we are all somewhat in the dark, and there is difficulty in knowing the best way to go, and even more difficulty in sorting out what information is reputable.. The end result of all this is that it leaves us all at least a little confused. The other side of the problem is that the medicolegal system judges doctors very harshly, and if a doctor is practicing in an area that is not well established and mainstream that creates a massive medicolegal risk.

It is a stupid system-- but its failings can only partially be blamed on pharma corruption.

Appreciating your balanced responses in several threads @Barliman.

 

[artlange]

So in my ongoing SIBO thing I got a new primary care physician where I live now, who recommended me to a gastroenterologist (as I knew she would). Now, my pcp is nice and listens to me, of course she doesn't know anything all that interesting just standard doctor training, but she isn't pushy.

have you tried grated carrot salad. Ray has suggested this in many KMUD interviews. When I started drinking milk with sugar after a few weeks, I got some tooth aches and some gas. after a few days of grated carrot salad with apple cider vinegar, coconut oil and salt, the gas stopped the the tooth ache stopped. Ray suggests the antibiotic and anti-fungal properties of grated carrot salad cleans up SIBO by making the SI sterile. It costs practically nothing and seems to work. No ignorant doctors to deal with.

 

[Kyle M]

have you tried grated carrot salad. Ray has suggested this in many KMUD interviews. When I started drinking milk with sugar after a few weeks, I got some tooth aches and some gas. after a few days of grated carrot salad with apple cider vinegar, coconut oil and salt, the gas stopped the the tooth ache stopped. Ray suggests the antibiotic and anti-fungal properties of grated carrot salad cleans up SIBO by making the SI sterile. It costs practically nothing and seems to work. No ignorant doctors to deal with.

I've tried it, but I've never stuck with it everyday for over a week. It didn't seem to do anything for me, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Travis]

In particular the antibiotics usually prescribed for SIBO are expensive for insurance companies and they don't like to do it without first doing all of their procedures (like endoscopy) that they can make money on.

Some plants produce somewhat powerful antibiotics.

The neem plant makes a complex molecule: azadirachtin.

And thymol is a respectable antibiotic. Here is a good study showing it depolarizing membranes of pseudomonas aeruginosa, causing potassium ion leakage and allowing ethidium bromide into the cells.

A study of the minimum inhibitory concentration and mode of action of oregano essential oil, thymol and carvacrol
Journal of Applied Microbiology
R.J.W. Lambert

 

[Kyle M]

And thymol is a respectable antibiotic. Here is a good study showing it depolarizing membranes of pseudomonas aeruginosa, causing potassium ion leakage and allowing ethidium bromide into the cells.

A study of the minimum inhibitory concentration and mode of action of oregano essential oil, thymol and carvacrol
Journal of Applied Microbiology
R.J.W. Lambert

Next time I'm taking ethidium bromide I'll be sure to pair it with thymol lol. I use ethidium bromide under a chemical fume hood.