Bacteria And Viruses Don't Cause Disease

MaxVerstappen

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
59


According to Thomas Cowen there is no scientific evidence that bacteria and viruses causes disease. In his book "The Contagion Myth", he claims that "(...) no disease attributed to bacteria or viruses has met all of Koch’s postulates or all of Rivers’ criteria. This is not because the postulates are incorrect or obsolete (in fact, they are entirely logical) but rather because bacteria and viruses don’t cause disease, at least not in any way that we currently understand."

He gives an example where a cow fed with an unnatural diet (e.g. distillery waste and cardboard) develop illness, and so does the person who drinks the milk. In the milk you find a certain bacteria, and you find the same bacteria in the stool of the person who drank the milk and got diarrhea. What if this bacteria isn't the cause of illness but rather a byproduct of disease - or natures way of detoxifying the organism?

Can someone prove him wrong on his statement that "there has been no disease to bacteria and viruses has met all of Koch's postulates or all of Rivers' criteria"?
 
Last edited:

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
2,286
I feel like these people would get much further if they just used proper english

Instead of saying "bacteria don't cause disease" (which is a statement that cannot be proven, and is almost certainly false), you could say "germ theory is wrong"
 

rei

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
1,607
police is commonly detected at the crime scene. Vaccinate against cops to stop crime!

Now on to some serious arguments: viruses, bacteria and even fungal cells all cooperate with you to keep you alive. All life on the planet works in this way, the "survival of the strongest" is the inversion of the truth. Isolate yourself and your immunity crashes. Isolation is only justifiable if a transient immune deficiency is detected. In all other cases it will harm you, making you unable to benefit from the newly detected adaptation methods the population has offered you through viruses. Instead of possibly dying from the stress of adaptation you will guarantee aging (unmet stress) and thus premature death.
 
Last edited:

cedric

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
156
"The Contagion myth".
In my opinion there is something in that idea. Longevity diet according to Benjamin Frank is rich in RNA - purine and ribose.
Scientists confirm that niacinamid riboside increases lifespan.
Altogether -niacinamid+ribose+adenine/inosine is something like sirtuine diet.
Sirtuins are NAD dependent.
Sirtuin - Wikipedia
I would describe telomeres like purines/ribose reserve, which are used faster in oxidative stress ( guanine -nitrosative stres, urate-iron complexation).
Cancer as a metabolic mechanism can rejuvenate telomers.
Cancer could be involced with lowering matrix cells.
Cancer regenerates matrix cells.
Infections/cancer/aging is fueled by iron.
Uric acid, purines metabolite acts as a antioxidant and iron complexor.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cf...37.1023279069.1602359508-111142569.1523279416
"
1.In order to survive in an oxygen environment,aerobic organisms have developed numerous mechanisms to protect against oxygen radicals and singlet oxygen. One such mechanism, which appears to have attained particular significance during primate evolution,is the direct scavenging of oxygen radicals,singlet oxygen, oxohaem oxidants and hydroperoxyl radicals by uric acid. 2. In the present paper we demonstrate that another important 'antioxidant' property of uric acid is the ability to form stable coordination complexes with iron ions.Formation of urate -Fe3+ complexes dramatically inhibits Fe3+-catalysed ascorbate oxidation, as well as lipid peroxidation in liposomes and rat liver microsomal fraction. In contrast with antioxidant scavenger reactions,the inhibition of ascorbate oxidation and lipid peroxidation provided by urate's ability to bind iron ions does not involve urate oxidation.3.Association constants (Ka) for urate-iron ion complexes were determined by fluorescence-quenching techniques. The K. for a 1:1 urate-Fe3+ complex was found to be 2.4 x 105, whereas the Ka for a 1:1 urate-Fe2+ complex was determined to be 1.9 x 104. Our experiments also revealed that urate can forma 2:1 complex with Fe3+ with an association constant for the second urate molecule (K') of approx. 4.5x105. From these data we estimate an overall stability constant (Ks- K.xK') for urate-Fe3+ complexes of approx. 1.1 x 10". 4. Polarographic measurements revealed that (upon binding) urate decreases the reduction potential for the Fe2+/Fe3+ half-reaction from -0.77 V to - 0.67 V. Thus urate slightly diminishes the oxidizing potential of Fe3+.5. The present results provide a mechanistic explanation for our previous report that urate protects ascorbate from oxidation in human blood. The almost saturating concentration of urate normally found in human plasma (up to 0.6 mM) represents 5-10 times the plasma ascorbate concentration, and is orders of magnitude higher than the 'free' iron ion concentration. These considerations point to the physiological significance of our findings.

Ribose helps to recover purines
Nucleotide salvage - Wikipedia

Guanine is destroyed by nitrosative stress.

adenine/inosine/guanine in purine cycle
Purine nucleotide cycle - Wikipedia

Infections/contagion could be a way to utilize iron overload to increase purine/ribose pool, to optimise iron/purine ratio.
Infection stimulates DNA/RNA/purine synthesis.

Blood donation is longevity promoting.
Cancer could regenerate telomeres/purines.
Ribose production pathway depends on good sleeep/melatonin.
Inosine (sardines/supplements) could help in immunity/iron complexation,save telomeres.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
Here is a nice article asking the question about “Is the virus real?” Yes it is.

@Ivysaur @Jam @Peatness

I think her article is pretty poor, really. First off, it contradicts itself-

There has been tremendous falsification of information on almost every aspect of the pandemic. I don't think there is much question about that, and I understand that it makes people appropriately suspicious about the reality of the virus, too. Particularly when people with MDs and PhDs after their names claim it does not exist.

Hundreds of thousands of whole genome sequences (maps of every nucleotide in the virus' RNA) have been uploaded by scientists in scores of countries to international databases, each with its own local mutations. You would need to isolate and grow these viruses in order to sequence them. Saying that all these sequences are false requires that thousands of scientists are lying, together, about the work they have done. Since these scientists are from the US, China, Russia, and everywhere else, getting them all to tell the same lie would not be simple.

So which is it, Meryl? Is there "tremendous falsification of information?" Or is that just BS, and we should just "Trust the Science?"

Second, I notice she didn't challenge any of Kaufman's arguments, but instead, goes for a personal attack on the man himself-

I am willing to go on record to say that Andrew Kaufman, MD (a psychiatrist, not a molecular biologist, who got his undergrad degree in the same department I did at MIT--Biology) who is quoted in the piece, is wrong and ignorant, besides. As are others.

Well, if he's "wrong and ignorant," why not correct his work, in detail? Point out what he got wrong, instead of acting dismissive. It doesn't matter if he's a psychiatrist or a molecular biologist or a plumber or an independent researcher. He's pointing out critical flaws in the claimed "isolation" process, and you don't have to be a virologist or molecular biologist to be able to do that.

But this part really seems silly-

3. Here is the key argument: I have challenged those who deny Covid is caused by a real virus to explain what, exactly, is causing these symptoms if it is not a virus. One suggested toxins. Or 5G.
First off, this argument isn't logical. If you are accused of a crime, and are completely innocent, you don't have to "prove" that someone else is guilty. Something like an alibi putting you far away from the crime scene when it supposedly happened would be an adequate defense.

But guess what? ALL Covid Symptoms 100% overlap with the common cold and flu. It's undeniable, to anyone who has looked at both. So, how about instead of a "Novel Corona Virus" causing "Covid," its the same thing that's been causing common colds and flus for centuries (and if that happens to be other sorts of germs, so be it). And there is no doubt that common colds and the flu (and many other conditions) were rebranded into so called "Covid" for a variety of reasons. Anthony Colpo detailed this brilliantly this article-


Let's Cut the BS

What seems to be happening is that seasonal influenza cases are being diagnosed as COVID-19 cases.

It also appears influenza is among the many causes of death either being re-assigned as COVID-19, or being relegated as a contributing condition secondary to COVID-19.

95% of the CDC's current COVID death count equates to 533,288 people, each of whom had an average of 4 comorbidities. That's a total of 2,133,152 comorbidities.

And so, in addition to the fraudulent methodology acknowledged by Fauci and Birx, the bad joke that is PCR testing, the officially sanctioned practice of assigning "probable" or "suspected" COVID-19 as cause of death, the Medicare-sanctioned bribes to hospitals and the pressure on doctors to assign COVID-19 even when they believe they shouldn't, we also have confirmation of millions of comorbid conditions among those allegedly dying of COVID-19.

With all these enabling factors present, it becomes incredibly easy to create hundreds of thousands of fallacious "COVID-19" deaths out of thin air.​

Plus, every individual symptom of Covid can be caused by dozens to hundreds of other conditions. Coughing, for example, can be caused by something like dust or a dry throat. If this is her "Key Argument" to the "Novel Corona Virus" existing, then she has no argument at all.
 
Last edited:

RealNeat

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
2,344
Location
HI
I think her article is pretty poor, really. First off, it contradicts itself-





So which is it, Meryl? Is there "tremendous falsification of information?" Or is that just BS, and we should just "Trust the Science?"

Second, I notice she didn't challenge any of Kaufman's arguments, but instead, goes for a personal attack on the man himself-



Well, if he's "wrong and ignorant," why not correct his work, in detail? Point out what he got wrong, instead of acting dismissive. It doesn't matter if he's a psychiatrist or a molecular biologist or a plumber or an independent researcher. He's pointing out critical flaws in the claimed "isolation" process, and you don't have to be a virologist or molecular biologist to be able to do that.

But this part really seems silly-


First off, this argument isn't logical. If you are accused of a crime, and are completely innocent, you don't have to "prove" that someone else is guilty. Something like an alibi putting you far away from the crime scene when it supposedly happened would be an adequate defense.

But guess what? ALL Covid Symptoms 100% overlap with the common cold and flu. It's undeniable, to anyone who has looked at both. So, how about instead of a "Novel Corona Virus" causing "Covid," its the same thing that's been causing common colds and flus for centuries (and if that happens to be other sorts of germs, so be it). And there is no doubt that common colds and the flu (and many other conditions) were rebranded into so called "Covid" for a variety of reasons. Anthony Colpo detailed this brilliantly this article-




Plus, every individual symptom of Covid can be caused by dozens to hundreds of other conditions. Coughing, for example, can be caused by something like dust or a dry throat. If this is her "Key Argument" to the "Novel Corona Virus" existing, then she has no argument at all.
I'm not understanding why this article even got shared. It has nothing of value compared to the extreme detail the anti germ theory folks go into. It's like a "trust me don't look into it" ad with no substance. @Lollipop2 i think it's time to dig deeper into the no virus side and get a firm grasp on the oppositions argument and it's basis, it's surely not unicorns and straw men, like virologists like to conjure up.
 
P

Peatness

Guest
This topic is beginning to be more painful than a traumatic head injury.

I was listening to this clip about guiliain - barre syndrome and was struck by the way Dr Peat explains viruses

53:55 - Guillain barre syndrome origin in the intestine? Viruses, leaky intestine, sepsis, cytokine storm
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
This topic is beginning to be more painful than a traumatic head injury.
The only reasons it would be "painful" is that you are either experiencing cognitive dissonance, or you don't understand the arguments against virus theory. Either way, you can remedy this yourself in about an hour. Read the "Materials and Methods" section of one of the Covid isolation studies. Make sure to look up any words or terms you don't understand (for example, if you don't know what "Vero Cells" are, you can find out with a quick internet search). Then, read Andrew Kaufman's step by step analysis of the "isolation" experiment. You can find both in this thread-


Afterwards, you should be able to come to your own logical conclusions.
I was listening to this clip about guiliain - barre syndrome and was struck by the way Dr Peat explains viruses

53:55 - Guillain barre syndrome origin in the intestine? Viruses, leaky intestine, sepsis, cytokine storm

It's not really an explanation about "viruses." Interestingly, he suggests that symptoms that are thought to be caused by a "virus" are actually caused by inflammation or leakage from the intestine. In fact, if you strike the word "virus" from his response, it remains just a logical, and in fact, would be a good plausible mechanism for the causation of symptoms that are attributed to "viruses."
 
P

Peatness

Guest
Thanks for patronising me @tankasnowgod I have read and listened to explanations of the isolation methods thank you. What still ‘hurts’ metaphorically speaking is shedding. I believe this to be a thing – I know your views on this so don’t bother repeating them. I recently experienced shedding, again, with someone who was boosted not so long ago. My symptoms were similar to previous occasions except this time the location of the swollen lymph glands was different. There was also a mild taste disturbance and weird menstrual cramps just as before. As I am someone who doesn’t tend to get flu or proper colds I was baffled because I was beginning to entertain the idea that such a thing does not happen.
 

joaquin

Member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
699
Location
Shreveport
Thanks for patronising me @tankasnowgod I have read and listened to explanations of the isolation methods thank you. What still ‘hurts’ metaphorically speaking is shedding. I believe this to be a thing – I know your views on this so don’t bother repeating them. I recently experienced shedding, again, with someone who was boosted not so long ago. My symptoms were similar to previous occasions except this time the location of the swollen lymph glands was different. There was also a mild taste disturbance and weird menstrual cramps just as before. As I am someone who doesn’t tend to get flu or proper colds I was baffled because I was beginning to entertain the idea that such a thing does not happen.
Has shedding ever been proven? Or is it something that we talk about so much that we assume it has been? If it has, how was it proven?
I tend to believe that particulates being sprayed about in combo with electro-smog are what is causing sickness.
 
P

Peatness

Guest
Has shedding ever been proven? Or is it something that we talk about so much that we assume it has been? If it has, how was it proven?
I tend to believe that particulates being sprayed about in combo with electro-smog are what is causing sickness.
I am open to this idea but I cannot dismiss the close contact on those occassions

We've discussed shedding here

 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
What still ‘hurts’ metaphorically speaking is shedding.
Why would this "hurt?" If you are referring to "shedding" from the mRNA shots, it has nothing to do with "viruses," full stop. Supposedly, it is the alleged "Spike Protein" that is being shed. This would have nothing to do with whether viruses exist or not. Two completely separate issues.
I believe this to be a thing – I know your views on this so don’t bother repeating them. I recently experienced shedding, again, with someone who was boosted not so long ago. My symptoms were similar to previous occasions except this time the location of the swollen lymph glands was different. There was also a mild taste disturbance and weird menstrual cramps just as before. As I am someone who doesn’t tend to get flu or proper colds I was baffled because I was beginning to entertain the idea that such a thing does not happen.
You seem to be conflating "symptoms" and "viruses." As far as I can tell, no one who questions the existence of viruses denies that people get sick, or experience symptoms that are often attributed to viruses. The root cause of the symptoms is being questioned, not the symptoms themselves.
 

joaquin

Member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
699
Location
Shreveport
Why would this "hurt?" If you are referring to "shedding" from the mRNA shots, it has nothing to do with "viruses," full stop. Supposedly, it is the alleged "Spike Protein" that is being shed. This would have nothing to do with whether viruses exist or not. Two completely separate issues.

You seem to be conflating "symptoms" and "viruses." As far as I can tell, no one who questions the existence of viruses denies that people get sick, or experience symptoms that are often attributed to viruses. The root cause of the symptoms is being questioned, not the symptoms themselves.
well said
 

Parsifal

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
1,081
If his premise is true, this is just a variant of the problem of induction that explains the inherent limits of empirism and scientific method. I think his skepticism is a bit too far-fetched though (inferring that microbes don't cause disease. Absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence).
 

joaquin

Member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
699
Location
Shreveport
If his premise is true, this is just a variant of the problem of induction that explains the inherent limits of empirism and scientific method. I think his skepticism is a bit too far-fetched though (inferring that microbes don't cause disease. Absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence).
Maybe you (and others) are misunderstanding the premise statement. Look closely and carefully at the two sentences below:

1. Microbes don't cause disease.
2. Is there sufficient and clear evidence that viruses are the cause, and not the result, of disease?

Is there a distinct difference between these two statements?

Maybe ponder for a while what I've written before knee-jerk hitting that "post reply" button, perhaps?
 

Perry Staltic

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
8,186
Has shedding ever been proven? Or is it something that we talk about so much that we assume it has been? If it has, how was it proven?
I tend to believe that particulates being sprayed about in combo with electro-smog are what is causing sickness.

Not proven, as many things aren't, but sometimes you just have to go with the preponderance of evidence. The evidence for shedding is not insignificant. For example (I don't know the results of her investigation):

I am currently investigating a group of 4 girls in a military academy that have been on strict lockdown since January 2020. They are only allowed to socialize in their tiny cohort and live in a 4-bed dormitory. None of the girls had COVID-19 in the past nor have tested positive for antibodies. One of the girls opted to get the Pfizer mRNA vaccine due to pressure from her parents. Within 45 minutes of receiving the injection, she returned to the dorm feeling unwell, and had to lay down. Within 24 hours, 2 of her roommates spiked fevers. One of them had additional respiratory symptoms consisting of shortness of breath and dry cough, and the other, headaches and extremity pain. These symptoms persisted for 5-6 days. On day 7 one of the non-vaccinated girls presented with a full-blown shingles outbreak, and the other with chest pains and acute leg pain, warranting a visit to the emergency department. She was later diagnosed with pericarditis and a blood clot in her leg.

 

RealNeat

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
2,344
Location
HI
Not proven, as many things aren't, but sometimes you just have to go with the preponderance of evidence. The evidence for shedding is not insignificant. For example (I don't know the results of her investigation):



Ray talks a lot about the Bystander effect (radiobiology) - Wikipedia & Abscopal effect - Wikipedia in context to radiation damage I think the concept applies to many cellular stressors. I happen to be a believer in homeopathy and the concepts surrounding it, I don't even see a need for "spike proteins" or any other physical phenomenon to get the symptoms associated with shedding. I think if a persons biofield can be altered it can influence the people around them, particularly if the surrounding people are compromised (as these girls seem to be/ became.)

Doing things to strengthen this field, which includes, bioenergetic, mental, spiritual, vibrational improvement seems a good idea. This could account for the many people who are exclusively around the vaccinated, like myself, with zero symptoms. I've also verified that some of these people had "bad batch" numbers.

Sound woowoo, but Ray has made very similar sentiments in regards to the energy one surrounds themselves with on ORN about old people staying vibrant around young healthy people, and we know the vaccine ages mitochondria Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine inhibits OXPHOS, may cause/promote aggressive cancer
 
Last edited:

Perry Staltic

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
8,186
Ray talks a lot about the Bystander effect (radiobiology) - Wikipedia & Abscopal effect - Wikipedia in context to radiation damage I think the concept applies to many cellular stressors. I happen to be a believer in homeopathy and the concepts surrounding it, I don't even see a need for "spike proteins" or any other physical phenomenon to get the symptoms associated with shedding. I think if a persons biofield can be altered it can influence the people around them, particularly if the surrounding people are compromised (as these girls seem to be/ became.)

Doing things to strengthen this field, which includes, bioenergetic, mental, spiritual, vibrational improvement seems a good idea. This could account for the many people who are exclusively around the vaccinated, like myself, with zero symptoms. I've also verified that some of these people had "bad batch" numbers.

Sound woowoo, but Ray has made very similar sentiments in regards to the energy one surrounds themselves with on ORN about old people staying vibrant around young healthy people, and we know the vaccine ages mitochondria Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine inhibits OXPHOS, may cause/promote aggressive cancer

Shingles is rare in people that young, and it and clots/pericarditis are not uncommon vexxine side effects, so Occam's razor
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
Shingles is rare in people that young, and it and clots/pericarditis are not uncommon vexxine side effects, so Occam's razor
Well, one single case of Shingles would still itself be "rare," considering there are tens of millions of Americans that young. And while clots and pericarditis are side effects of the so called vaccines, they also happen for a number of other reasons, with social isolation being a big one. Occam's Razor properly applied wouldn't lead you to the conclusion that a vaccine caused a "side effect" in someone who didn't take that vaccine. Instead, you might look towards something like a year plus of strict lockdown (which the report itself mentions). Things like stress and pushing your body to it's physical limits (remember, they are at a military academy) could also be factors.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom