B12 Deficiency And Hypothyroidism

[natedawggh]

I'm posting this because I don't think I've seen much information about it that sounded imperative. B12 is mentioned a lot for energy, but I've been Peating for over a year and I am just learning that one of the most serious complications of hypothyroidism is a B12 deficiency, http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/b12/ which can be a chronic problem even after steps are taken to correct hypothyroidism. Basically, if you are Hypothyroid you are more likely than not to have a B12 deficiency. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403 I also learned today that when you start taking high doses of B12, such as injection of sublingual, you can experience unpleasantness because the increase of B12 causes the body to make new blood cells, which robs the potassium from your serum, and since potassium is not stored in the organs for backup, extra potassium must be taken in order to assist in repair of the systems damaged by the B12 deficiency. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency "Hypokalemia, an excessively low potassium level in the blood, is anecdotally reported as a complication of vitamin B12 repletion after deficiency. Excessive quantities of potassium are used by newly growing and dividing hematopoietic cells, depleting circulating stores of the mineral."

I had my first shot of B12 yesterday, and today I woke up sore and cranky, which was very unexpected. I was glad to find out that this is normal in people where B12 deficiency has been a problem.

I also found out that hypothyroidism and specifically B12 deficiency can be related to high levels of carotene, so don't be drinking any carrot juice!

 

[lindsay]

I have had a B12 deficiency for years - they have never allowed me to give blood. But, I think changing the diet and taking thyroid has helped because some of the noticeable symptoms (numbness in the fingers and toes) have stopped - likely do to dairy/milk intake. Still, it's good to note that I should still get my B12 levels checked on my next blood test.

Let me know how you progress!! I still lack energy, even despite taking thyroid, so I should probably have that blood test done again..... I just hate paying for blood tests.

 

[SaltGirl]

This explains why B12 can increase blood pressure. The lowering of potassium is probably causing a negative effect on it(blood pressure).

 

[Jennifer]

I'm posting this because I don't think I've seen much information about it that sounded imperative. B12 is mentioned a lot for energy, but I've been Peating for over a year and I am just learning that one of the most serious complications of hypothyroidism is a B12 deficiency, http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/b12/ which can be a chronic problem even after steps are taken to correct hypothyroidism. Basically, if you are Hypothyroid you are more likely than not to have a B12 deficiency. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403 I also learned today that when you start taking high doses of B12, such as injection of sublingual, you can experience unpleasantness because the increase of B12 causes the body to make new blood cells, which robs the potassium from your serum, and since potassium is not stored in the organs for backup, extra potassium must be taken in order to assist in repair of the systems damaged by the B12 deficiency. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency "Hypokalemia, an excessively low potassium level in the blood, is anecdotally reported as a complication of vitamin B12 repletion after deficiency. Excessive quantities of potassium are used by newly growing and dividing hematopoietic cells, depleting circulating stores of the mineral."

I had my first shot of B12 yesterday, and today I woke up sore and cranky, which was very unexpected. I was glad to find out that this is normal in people where B12 deficiency has been a problem.

I also found out that hypothyroidism and specifically B12 deficiency can be related to high levels of carotene, so don't be drinking any carrot juice!

I had read about a B12 deficiency being linked to hypothyroidism a while back and because I had a numb big toe and orange skin after my 2 year stint with 80/10/10, along with B12 levels well under 300, my doctor agreed it would be a good idea to start weekly injections right away.

The first two injections I noticed nothing, but on the third, I started getting really bad gallbladder attacks. I asked her if that was a common symptom since I knew B12 was needed to convert beta-carotene to vitamin A in the liver and I figured given my orange skin at the time, there was a good chance my liver had been burdened from stored excess carotene which could then affect the gallbladder. And since a B12 deficiency and gallbladder disease are linked to hypothyroidism, she thought it made sense.

Not that I think she should know everything, but I didn't feel secure with the answer that it made sense, but we didn't really know for sure so I stopped the weekly injections and eventually the gallbladder attacks went away and haven't returned.

Anyhow, it's interesting to know about hypokalemia with B12 repletion.

Thanks for sharing this, nate.

 

[Poppyseed13]

Recently, I have added Lithium Orotate (Swanson's) to my daily regimen--which includes Methyl B12 ---one of the main reasons I have added it is that lithium helps drive B12 and Folate into the cells.

I did not benefit much from regular B12 (cobalamin) or Folic Acid---I have several MTHFR mutations---but I had a terrifically good response to Methylcobalamin (Solgar's Methyl 12) as well as Methylfolate (Solgar's Metafolin).

I had been taking both Methylcobalamin and Methylfolate for about two months with great increase in energy and generally feeling good---then my energy levels leveled off--and I still felt I was not having optimal energery, and increasing dosage did not improve my energy.

So, I did more digging (Amy Yasko's ideas have helped a lot as well as several other MTHFR websites)--and found out that many people are low in lithium---and especially people who need B12.

I want to emphasize that I am NOT talking about the pharmaceutical grade of lithium: Lithium carbonate. And I AM talking about OTC lithum supplements (lithium orotate, lithium aspartate) --the OTC lithium supplements are used in far smaller doses than the pharmaceutical lithium---and with far fewer side-effects--and some very nice benefits.

Something to think about and/or experiment with.

Cheers,
Poppyseed13

 

[Poppyseed13]

Ha! I lost my train of thought.

The Lithium Orotate has added a very nice, smooth boost of energy---I do take three micro-doses throughout the day, and it has been sweet. The energy I am feeling is not the agitated energy of stimulants (caffeine, adderall, etc.), but just a very nice "I feel able to tackle these projects today'---and then I do. And I am not wiped out at the end of the day---just pleasantly tired.

Poppyseed13

 

[Stilgar]

I have very strong positive effects from B12 - but I need consistent regular dosing to feel good. It alleviates most of the problems I thought were thyroid related, estrogen related or vitamin and mineral deficiencies. I have supplemented inconsistently before, but never to the degree or with the fervency that I am now. I cured a persistent UTI with B12 a while ago, sort of by accident, and that is how the penny dropped.

When B12 is low, I start to notice a whole pattern of things. I start having numbness in my arms when I sleep - the kind that happens once in a while where you have slept awkwardly- but this happens all the time, every night. My sleep becomes restless, I'd wake multiple times a night, and never feel rested. I'd also wake with what feels like dehydration- but no urge to drink and I have to force water/salts down. I get numbness and tingling in my hands and feet, and numbness/pain in my left inside elbow crease. Oh, and I feel all round fatigued - can barely move my legs, get breathless, nails go brittle, hair goes weird and itchy/greasy (?). I think the latter points are all just the associated anemia. I get really blue veins that are prominent, and a little patch of spider veins on the back of my knee pulsate and ache, which goes hand in hand with numbness in the foot of that leg. Edema generally- despite a very Peaty diet of dairy, more protein these days (shellfish/fish), eggs, lots of sugar/fruit, eggshell, salt, etc. I would try different levels of calcium, magnesium, protein, thyroid and so on to try to get rid of these symptoms with varying results but it is nothing on the b12.

When I take 10mg a day, every day, (sublingual), I feel transformed. My body calms, and I sleep peacefully. It makes me realise that my diet is ok (you start to doubt yourself when it feels like your body is collapsing). The leg tingling is easing - slowly - and my veins look less angry and prominent.

I'd love to get tested to see if its pernicious anemia (this pattern of events has followed me for 10+ years - so I am starting to wonder!), but my experience with doctors is not great and I am a bit rubbish at being forceful with them.

That or the B12 is just helpful for some other reason that I have missed.

The Lithium Orotate has added a very nice, smooth boost of energy---I do take three micro-doses throughout the day, and it has been sweet. The energy I am feeling is not the agitated energy of stimulants (caffeine, adderall, etc.), but just a very nice "I feel able to tackle these projects today'---and then I do. And I am not wiped out at the end of the day---just pleasantly tired.

Poppyseed13

Lithium sounds interesting poppyseed13 - do you think there are any drawbacks? Might give it a shot.

 

[Raypmom]

I'm posting this because I don't think I've seen much information about it that sounded imperative. B12 is mentioned a lot for energy, but I've been Peating for over a year and I am just learning that one of the most serious complications of hypothyroidism is a B12 deficiency, http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/b12/ which can be a chronic problem even after steps are taken to correct hypothyroidism. Basically, if you are Hypothyroid you are more likely than not to have a B12 deficiency. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403 I also learned today that when you start taking high doses of B12, such as injection of sublingual, you can experience unpleasantness because the increase of B12 causes the body to make new blood cells, which robs the potassium from your serum, and since potassium is not stored in the organs for backup, extra potassium must be taken in order to assist in repair of the systems damaged by the B12 deficiency. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency "Hypokalemia, an excessively low potassium level in the blood, is anecdotally reported as a complication of vitamin B12 repletion after deficiency. Excessive quantities of potassium are used by newly growing and dividing hematopoietic cells, depleting circulating stores of the mineral."

I had my first shot of B12 yesterday, and today I woke up sore and cranky, which was very unexpected. I was glad to find out that this is normal in people where B12 deficiency has been a problem.

I also found out that hypothyroidism and specifically B12 deficiency can be related to high levels of carotene, so don't be drinking any carrot juice!

Is B12 only availble in injections (most effective) or can one just use a good suppliment ?

 

[Jennifer]

I too would like other people's opinion on injections versus sublinguals. I went on forums specifically discussing B12 before I started injections and most were in agreement that sublingual supplementation was very effective.

I did injections and started getting gallbladder attacks. I wasn't sure if it was due to the B12 stimulating my liver or if it was a reaction to the excipients in it like the parabens so I decided to look into sublingual supplementation instead. I found what seems to be a pure B12(Methylcobalamin) sublingual with water as it's only excipient.

http://www.bio-alternatives.net/b12.htm

Poppyseed, have you seen this one? I know you mentioned the Solgar's methyl.

 

[natedawggh]

Is B12 only availble in injections (most effective) or can one just use a good suppliment ?

It is available in supplements. I just have symptoms of gluten allergy/coeliacs and that probably damages the area of my stomach that is supposed to absorb B12. I read something somewhere that the sublingual B12 doesn't actually really get absorbed in the mouth. It is by far the largest vitamin molecule. There is so much of it in a sublingual supplement, however, that much of it will be absorbed after swallowing anyway.

 

[Stilgar]

I use 5mg sublingual tabs of methylcobolamin - seem to work great.

 

[Poppyseed13]

Jennifer--

No, I have not seen this brand. I might have to try it! I take quite a lot of Methyl B12 daily and the costs do add up.

Thanks much,
Poppyseed13

 

[Jennifer]

You're welcome, Poppyseed! :)

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I have tested as very deficient in B-12 in the past, most likely due to chronic malabsorption from ongoing gut issues. I too have experienced ALL of the symptoms that others have mentioned here: numbness, tingling, lack of energy etc. My doctor put me on a series of weekly B injections, not sure what other B vitamins were in there, but they made me feel AWESOME! Within minutes of receiving the shot in my hip I could taste B vitamins in my mouth and then I was ten feet tall and bullet proof for next few days. Sadly it would fade away and I would have to repeat weekly which got expensive, so now I use high doses of all the B vitamins and sublingual B-12. It's definitely better than nothing, but not as good feeling to me as the shots. :2cents

 

[SQu]

Thanks for all this great info! I have many of these symptoms.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks for all this great info! I have many of these symptoms.

I wonder if that's why you've been craving meat and eggs? I noticed when I started craving and eating lots of meat, the numbness in my big toe started to go away.

 

[SQu]

Maybe. according to cronometer peating supplies plenty - but if only some gets absorbed...
Been getting plenty for years so must be the digestion. Again!

 

[Jennifer]

Oh, I hear ya, sueq!

 

[SQu]

Funny how often I read a thread just out of interest, thinking "this won't apply to me" and then... Hmmmm.....

 

[Giraffe]

I get really blue veins that are prominent, and a little patch of spider veins on the back of my knee pulsate and ache, which goes hand in hand with numbness in the foot of that leg.

Stilgar, how long does it take for the veins to get normal again?

When I take 10mg a day, every day, (sublingual), I feel transformed.

Is it really 10 mg? Which type of cobalamin (Hydroxo-, Cyano-, Methylcobalamin) do you take?