B.F. Skinner And Peat

[DaveFoster]

What do you guys think of B.F. Skinner in relation to Peat? Some of his quotes seem reminiscent of William Blake. Here are a few examples:

Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten. (anti-authoritarian)

A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

The way positive reinforcement is carried out is more important than the amount. (context)

I did not direct my life. I didn't design it. I never made decisions. Things always came up and made them for me. That's what life is. (anti-authoritarian)

Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. (anti-authoritarian)

A person who has been punished is not thereby simply less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment. (anti-authoritarian)

The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do. (critical of human assumptions)

If you're old, don't try to change yourself, change your environment. (anti-authoritarian)

The consequences of an act affect the probability of its occurring again. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

 

[Blossom]

Wow, they look similar!

 

[haidut]

Wow, they look similar!

Yep, they both wear the same "birth control" glasses
But yes, they do look similar - hair styles, glasses, facial features and writing style.

 

[Blossom]

Yep, they both wear the same "birth control" glasses

So true.

 

[meatbag]

What do you guys think of B.F. Skinner in relation to Peat? Some of his quotes seem reminiscent of William Blake. Here are a few examples:

Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten. (anti-authoritarian)

A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

The way positive reinforcement is carried out is more important than the amount. (context)

I did not direct my life. I didn't design it. I never made decisions. Things always came up and made them for me. That's what life is. (anti-authoritarian)

Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. (anti-authoritarian)

A person who has been punished is not thereby simply less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment. (anti-authoritarian)

The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do. (critical of human assumptions)

If you're old, don't try to change yourself, change your environment. (anti-authoritarian)

The consequences of an act affect the probability of its occurring again. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

I'm not sure Peat would enjoy the association but I like those quotes from Skinner, except for;
"I did not direct my life. I didn't design it. I never made decisions. Things always came up and made them for me. That's what life is. (anti-authoritarian)"


"In European culture, some people--e.g., Plato, Descarte, Locke, Eccles, probably even B.F. Skinner--have believed that mind and body are essentially different things (analogous to computer hardware and its programs), while another tradition--Blake, Lamarck, Darwin, C.L. Morgan, Pavlov, Reich, C.R. Cloninger, for example--has emphasized the continuity of consciousness and character with the body." Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

"B.F. Skinner in the 1970s said “a gestating baby isn't influenced by what happens to its mother,” he was expressing a deeply rooted bio-medical dogma. Physicians insisted that a baby couldn't be harmed by its mother's malnutrition, as long as she lived to give birth. People could be quite vicious when their dogma was challenged, but their actions were systematically vicious when they weren't challenged."
Academic authoritarians, language, metaphor, animals, & science

"Watson's "objective" psychology, which denied consciousness for the sake of "science...
Modern American Behaviorism (including Skinner) is still close to Watson's position, and generally ignores Pavlov's real work. One small advance in Skinner's work over Watson's is the recognition that pain and the avoidance of pain are not the only motives for behavior.
Skinner's environmentalism is sometimes viewed as a humanistic aspect of his theory--and increasingly so. Carl Rogers has recently remarked that Behaviorism is a valuable complement to other therapeutic techniques. However, Skinner still holds a strongly genetic, rather than really developmental view of human abilities." Mind and Tissue pg. 34

"On the social level, Skinner's theories would make smooth-running the main virtue, instead of moving toward higher levels of being." Mind and Tissue pg. 36

"The Soviet understanding of "verbal behavior" must not be confused with Skinner's use of the phrase, since Skinner and many American behaviorists and nerve biologists insist that no "subjective" events can be included in their scientific explanation, while the image is the central event for the Pavlovians." Mind and Tissue pg. 50

"Besides giving us a mistaken interpretation of Pavlov's work with the conditional reflex, the tradition started by J.B.Watson and continued by B. F. Skinner helped to make psychology remote from physiology as well as from morality. Skinner felt that his work had moved us "beyond freedom and dignity," and he saw the brain as such a neutral ground, or blank slate, that he said that the maternal contribution to the developing fetus is "nothing but her genes."To distinguish psychology from biology, he eliminated physiology from biology, leaving nothing but a timeless and rigid genetic determinism below his malleable "environmentalism." Mind and Tissue pg. 66-67

"Pavlov spoke of a "Reflex of Purpose" and a "Reflex of Freedom." He was aware of the political significance of psychological theories. He claimed we have a real, biological need to be free and purposive. This is utterly opposed to arguments such as Skinner's in Beyond Freedom and Dignity. Skinner's claim that we have no instinctive desires is needed to justify the friendly fascism that he advocated. (Usually, the people who argue that we have no good instinctive urges--such as sex--are the same people who argue that aggression is innate: Our culture still teaches about sexless Eden and Original Sin.)" Mind and Tissue pg. 83

 

[Regina]

Yep, they both wear the same "birth control" glasses :)
But yes, they do look similar - hair styles, glasses, facial features and writing style.

What do you guys think of B.F. Skinner in relation to Peat? Some of his quotes seem reminiscent of William Blake. Here are a few examples:

Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten. (anti-authoritarian)

A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

The way positive reinforcement is carried out is more important than the amount. (context)

I did not direct my life. I didn't design it. I never made decisions. Things always came up and made them for me. That's what life is. (anti-authoritarian)

Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. (anti-authoritarian)

A person who has been punished is not thereby simply less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment. (anti-authoritarian)

The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do. (critical of human assumptions)

If you're old, don't try to change yourself, change your environment. (anti-authoritarian)

The consequences of an act affect the probability of its occurring again. (bioenergetics and self-correction application)

I'm not sure Peat would enjoy the association but I like those quotes from Skinner, except for;
"I did not direct my life. I didn't design it. I never made decisions. Things always came up and made them for me. That's what life is. (anti-authoritarian)"


"In European culture, some people--e.g., Plato, Descarte, Locke, Eccles, probably even B.F. Skinner--have believed that mind and body are essentially different things (analogous to computer hardware and its programs), while another tradition--Blake, Lamarck, Darwin, C.L. Morgan, Pavlov, Reich, C.R. Cloninger, for example--has emphasized the continuity of consciousness and character with the body." Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

"B.F. Skinner in the 1970s said “a gestating baby isn't influenced by what happens to its mother,” he was expressing a deeply rooted bio-medical dogma. Physicians insisted that a baby couldn't be harmed by its mother's malnutrition, as long as she lived to give birth. People could be quite vicious when their dogma was challenged, but their actions were systematically vicious when they weren't challenged."
Academic authoritarians, language, metaphor, animals, & science

"Watson's "objective" psychology, which denied consciousness for the sake of "science...
Modern American Behaviorism (including Skinner) is still close to Watson's position, and generally ignores Pavlov's real work. One small advance in Skinner's work over Watson's is the recognition that pain and the avoidance of pain are not the only motives for behavior.
Skinner's environmentalism is sometimes viewed as a humanistic aspect of his theory--and increasingly so. Carl Rogers has recently remarked that Behaviorism is a valuable complement to other therapeutic techniques. However, Skinner still holds a strongly genetic, rather than really developmental view of human abilities." Mind and Tissue pg. 34

"On the social level, Skinner's theories would make smooth-running the main virtue, instead of moving toward higher levels of being." Mind and Tissue pg. 36

"The Soviet understanding of "verbal behavior" must not be confused with Skinner's use of the phrase, since Skinner and many American behaviorists and nerve biologists insist that no "subjective" events can be included in their scientific explanation, while the image is the central event for the Pavlovians." Mind and Tissue pg. 50

"Besides giving us a mistaken interpretation of Pavlov's work with the conditional reflex, the tradition started by J.B.Watson and continued by B. F. Skinner helped to make psychology remote from physiology as well as from morality. Skinner felt that his work had moved us "beyond freedom and dignity," and he saw the brain as such a neutral ground, or blank slate, that he said that the maternal contribution to the developing fetus is "nothing but her genes."To distinguish psychology from biology, he eliminated physiology from biology, leaving nothing but a timeless and rigid genetic determinism below his malleable "environmentalism." Mind and Tissue pg. 66-67

"Pavlov spoke of a "Reflex of Purpose" and a "Reflex of Freedom." He was aware of the political significance of psychological theories. He claimed we have a real, biological need to be free and purposive. This is utterly opposed to arguments such as Skinner's in Beyond Freedom and Dignity. Skinner's claim that we have no instinctive desires is needed to justify the friendly fascism that he advocated. (Usually, the people who argue that we have no good instinctive urges--such as sex--are the same people who argue that aggression is innate: Our culture still teaches about sexless Eden and Original Sin.)" Mind and Tissue pg. 83

Thanks for culling all this Meatbag. Right. It was in Mind and Tissue. I agree that Peat would not particularly like the association.
Yeah, and I started watching some horrible documentary about how people were/are treated by the Psychiatric industry. Skinner seemed to fit more in with those guys than Peat.

 

[tara]

I wouldn't have easily associated Peat with Skinner's Behaviourism.